“You Can Build a Business – How I Did It” – Tech.Strong.Women. EP 14

Hi everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of tech strong women where we feature amazing women doing amazing things in Tech. I am Jody Ashley executive producer here at Tech strong, and I'm joined by my co-host Tracy Reagan CEO at deploy Hub and active on tons of boards of the Linux Foundation that I can't keep track of in a million other things.

She does we're excited to be here today with you before I introduce today's guests. I want to give you a quick update about what's going on here at Tech strong. We'll be at devops Asia Summit in Singapore on February 10th.

You can also register now for Tech strong con 2023 on March 16th, and you can also catch up with the tech strong team at RSA conference 2023 in San Francisco, April 24th to through the 27th. tv every day. Got a lot of great shows and content for you guys to watch over there.

Hey, Tracy, what do you got? What do you got on your mind today? Well, aren't you glad that don't have shows in December?

Yeah. Wouldn't be a dragon for the big shows decided to have it like the 15th of December through the 20th seriously, and I think that most shows should get shorter when they're in person, but that's not what I had on my mind today. I just thought about wow February's just around the corner and you're already thinking about traveling.

I know. Hey nuclear fusion that blows my mind that one really got me. I was like that can't be right so long we were told it was almost impossible.

You know, I I, you know, I lived in Chicago and they always talked about the the lab out there with this massive centrifuge trying to create with these these massive magnets this, you know, a little mini star and then somebody does it in the lab and in California with some lasers. Which is really cool the idea of light creating light. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Now I know this is a we're pre-recording everybody. So I was at this we are in that right now as we're recording we are in the period of time where we're celebrating light.

We have Hanukkah Christmas the the winter solstice which is the darkest day of the year, but you celebrate it because the next day we're going to have more light and we find nuclear fusion that's going to create, you know, it used light to create it's gonna take energy to create it. But what we create creates more energy, it has such far-reaching. It's a major disruptor in so many ways from the the global geopolitical, you know world if we didn't rely on oil it would change so much in the world to make people's Better Lives better in so many ways.

So I yeah, I I read the article like four times and I'm still blown away that somebody actually Created a little mini star in a lab in California. That's where my head's been this week thinking about how that would change. You know, they say it's going to take like 10 to 15 years for that to be real that is not very far down the road that is not long at all.

We can do that that we can do that. We can wait even if it took 20 years we could we can do that and maybe it just might save the planet, you know, I'm a big environmentalist. I drive electric cars.

I do everything I can and minimize my my dependency on oil and I don't want anybody to send me hate mail to say I'm an oil hater. I love my pontoon boat and it requires oil. Absolutely.

So I you know, I'm not I don't hate oil. I just know that we can't continue to rely on it and it is about the kids right? It's about the children.

What is the world? We're going to leave them and I think nuclear fusion. That is a massive game-changer for us and let's hope it's real.

That's really cool. I should have known that would be that would be your takeaway for the week. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I think we should hear more about it. I feel like we just got I got little glimpses of it, and I saw it on a ticker actually on CNN and I had to go read go look on the CNN website and then read about it.

I'm like, why is aren't we having a massive party about this? I know there's so much going on in the world. It seems to blot out the cool stuff.

Sometimes gets blotted out by all the garbage that's going on. So, I think that's a great thing to to cover. Thank you Tracy, so I would like to introduce you all to Our Guest today, and I'm probably gonna mess up your last name.

Sophia is it palomarchuk? That's perfect. Okay, so right I did it woohoo.

She is the co-founder and CEO of abdom we are excited to have you with us today. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, I'm very excited to be here Jody and Tracy nice to meet you as well.

This is the first time we meet through soon. So yeah, she said I'm CEO and co-founder of hop team up Tim is the startup in the mall performance space. So we have a product for developers.

I want to improve the user experience of their mobile apps. And this is my second company. I'm also partner and I actually start my career out of structure, which is a Consulting business which hire me as their first female performance engineer almost 10 years ago, and that's how I got to be now working in more performance and you know being an entrepreneur which is something that I am passionate about also creating new products.

So how when you were at abstract, how did that form your it was at right after college or did he was actually stealing College? There's an original from Uruguay South America the small but strong country between Argentina and Brazil if you haven't been South I recommend it to make a stop in Uruguay. And the thing in Uruguay is that usually you're still standing at University and you're really start working.

So you do kind of both at the same time, which is I know it's not that common in the usually you guys take the summer break and then you do some internships. For some reason. We we started actually doing this many years ago when you know you work during the day and then you go to classes during the night.

It's very intense. But the thing is that you learn a lot by doing and also it shapes your career. So you when the last years of University at least in engineering it's five to six years career to get your your Bachelor degrees at some point.

You're actually able to choose certain subjects very more interested at the end of the career but usually have already started working in the industry. So you have an idea and which area is more interested is like network engineering even like ml or AI could be an area, you know architecture like software architect. Like you can actually choose your own path.

So I started working at abstractor when I was in my third year of University. They hire me with, you know us as a shoe near of course to start working in performance, which was more like performance testing but also some performance engineering which is more related to devops today. At that time we wouldn't call it.

We wouldn't have that as a role. But yeah, they basically, you know put this ad up at our uni. I caught it.

I went to an interview. I had just be bad. I was back to Uruguay because I was just one year abroad living in Ireland.

Which that's another story as well. But basically, you know, they like me and they hire me, you know, that's a really and that's a very interesting model. I think that the US companies I know always complain that our universities are sort of behind in terms of what we're what they're teaching.

I mean, there's probably universities teaching and devops class but probably not kubernetes yet. So it's so it seems like that's a real logical way to do that in your third year because then you're getting a feedback loop directly from the employer back to you back to the to the university. I think there's a gap in the US system that we do take that time off and I think those we call them internships and they'll you know, you might do a summer internship but you know actually taking a job at there's no better way to it's no better way to experience with the real world then actually working.

And usually you start like six hours part-time depends, you know, they don't hire you full-time because they know you're still studying and they want you they want you to actually keep studying as well because you want to get more races right the more you advancing your career and once you actually get your Bachelor as well, but as you said there's more I at least how I felt that there's a close connection between industry and education. So there's a feedback loop as well and many, you know Founders and like of STAR labs, they actually teach at University there. So they bring that view from what the market needs worries in Industry.

Of course, there are some subjects are like still, you know old in the sense that they're teaching you things and maybe they're not that relevant. But most of them it's still the basics of engineering that you need to learn so things that you might not find like it happened to me like this makes no sense. Why am I learning this?

But then many years after you realize that that was useful because it helps it with problem-solving or it helps you with, you know, certain skills around a specifically related to the technology. But again, I think it's it's challenging as I said because you're working on studying but it gives you any prepares you better for the future for actually knowing you know, well, where do you want to specialize in in it in this case? Right, which was I study Computing engineering?

So I have a offbeat question. I think it do you speak Spanish or Portuguese? Spanish and Portuguese.

Oh really married with a Brazilian? Okay. We speak Spanish in uruguaya as in most of Latin America.

The Brazil's Portuguese Brazil is Portuguese. Yeah. Yes, but because they're so big.

I can say there's two, you know, 200 million people that speaks Portuguese living in Brazil. But yeah, and we have a border with Brazil. So actually a lot of people in Uruguay speak Portugues because that's right.

I didn't know what the primary language was. So in University and in your first job, how many women did you run into are there is it like the US where we're like, maybe one or two percent or are there more women? It's So out of work, I was this it we were nine at the time nine people in the company and I was a second woman.

In that group that I was hired then we actually grew a lot and that proportion didn't actually we didn't kept that like two to ten. You know, it was sometimes more sometimes less specifically in the technical side because as well, then you start hiring like for marketing or you know financial and then more roles come to where women are typically higher for but but it was usually usually minority there were some classes at the very last years of University where I was like one in 40 That happened even more when you were doing and we did share that with some I have friends that they did like mechanical engineering. That was like one to 60.

So for computer engineering at least a year why it's it's in terms of all the careers. You can do Under the engineering faculty is the one has more women. Actually, it's like around 20% that enter every year.

But then it's less that actually gets to the end. So it's right finished so that percentage at the end and last year was around 13. Which is super low.

Yeah, it's really low. It's low. I don't know what it is in the US, but I think it's probably around 10 to 13.

I mean I find in the US we don't retaining women in technology is hard because many go off and have kids and then they if they take three years off or four years having forbid. Many of them tell me they feel that there's they're not relevant anymore. This our technology changes so quickly.

It's like, oh, well, we were doing C when my kid was born and now I've got to learn python or you know, I it would it's a fast industry is hard. Yeah, I need happens again when I mentioned that he started working while you're studying even if you have kids in the middle, which is not uncommon for women at least in Uruguay. You know, that that means you're 35 40 and maybe you you have experience but you haven't finished yet your career because you have kids so it's super challenging.

And I think that's why also part of what I want to do right in my role is also to just be able to show that of course not only are capable. But even if we have to, you know, leave the industry for a while for whatever reason we should be able to get back on track. And I think that's how our responsibility right because it's also up to us to get back and and it's challenging but I know many women that were able to to go back after having kids or after even having, you know going through surgery the Seas whatever that will keep you away from work for certain period of time.

Yeah, I mean I think that in technology if you're okay with always learning and knowing that you don't know everything but you have transferable skills that you can pick new things up that you're okay, but I think that a lot of people feel like well, I don't know the answers and I'm not sure if I should go back in and there's some hesitancy and I see that more with women than men sometimes will just jump back in and say well figure it out. Yeah, there's something again. I don't know why it's like biologically but I don't know what it was either fittings that I should see I'd happen to me.

I'm also part of like not not having that confidence that you don't know it now what you're gonna learn it, right my own experience now is that we with opting with starting performance. I mentioned we're expanding to security and when you talk about cyber security is like oh this whole new world You know, I still learning and it's not that hard and I have people in my team that you know are experts and I speak the same language right now something that maybe three months ago. I was scared at the beginning because it wasn't my background for the last 10 years.

But again, like you learn but it's that thing that we put sometimes we put that barrier ourselves that this is too hard. Maybe we are not good enough, you know, all those thoughts very happy. You know, I think we have imposter syndrome so bad when I was bugging Jody to become part of a host on this she was just like I don't know like okay, but to talk to one thing that helps is just, you know, building your own startup.

It's like there's every way there's something that you have never done before and that's from you know, talking to investors, you know, raising money doing like bookkeeping, you know firing people hiring people. There's always something you and many skills our skills that you haven't learned actually because it's not something that you that they're taught a university. It's just by doing that you learn and that's how I gain more confidence is like, okay, I did this now what's next and then I app to different areas But again, it's something that should come up come from you and I think it's just like little steps and little gains help you build that confidence and of course talking to other women that have already done it and then they can push you forward.

Absolutely. What do you have? Do you have a support system of other women that you network with?

Yes several. I have one like your female found. I have female Founders from the US that I met when I was living in SF.

I have female Founders from Latin America which we share some challenges with hiring for example from Colombia Mexico and we have groups were we have something that we share in terms of like, you know, you know challenges or problems. So we speak kind of like the same language even racing from VCS for example, so I have groups focus on that. I have a support network of course of my my partners are the companies that have co-founders that helps a lot.

They're all males but they're like very like woman, you know empowerments is what we want mostly because they have they have daughters so it's about their future. So and that's a really good way of having support from Men In This quest of you know, women in text because they want to see their the future to have a possibility and to be motivated to study something related to it. So that's like, you know, you know way being a role model for them.

so how's that support network that it's amazing and I feel like that's a very intrinsically female quality that were more likely to seek out peers and groups and bounce stuff off of each other where I see in Jobs that I've had in the past where men tend to just power their way through it and think and figure out they can do it all all by themselves and not always very successfully and we've spoken with so many really successful women like you and one of the things they all have in common. Yeah Tracy is that they've created a support system for themselves where they can bounce all of these things off of other people because there's just so many startups in this world. I mean how many people go and work for a company that has 5,000 people anymore, right?

Or if they do it's just long enough to get what they need to go out and start their own or do something smaller. So I just think it's it's just a really empowering thing to have people around you that can Really help you. And yeah, and it's and of course our friends, right?

We all have friends but some friends they don't actually get it. It's just like super hard to explain like why you're going through because you help you know, all this investors are saying no and they're like, but you're so good. Or maybe you should do something else but things are like no but this is normal.

It's like you have to explain it's like talking to your mom. Right? She's there to support you, but she doesn't get it.

She's like talking to rosters talking to investors can be really really hard. I know I've gone through many of the many of them looking for funding and you know women only get 2% of the funding. And when you share those numbers with people outside, these groups are like, oh, wow.

I had no idea two percent. You know female Founders like it's so hard. We know so hard.

What do you need? Like let's help each other. So it's I have to I have to admit the whole FTX thing.

I think that was the company's name blew up. I was just like, you know what it teaches them. Right just because this guy had crazy hair more t-shirt and shorts and you know came out of you know, heartless heard, you know, so he was a stereotype and they were just like, oh, you're like you fit the mold.

Do you look like the potential next, you know? You know, I don't know Elon Musk or something, which I don't know if we need any more of them. I think more videos.

Well, there you go. I mean there's some you know, there's some amazing Powerhouse women speaking of which you know, it's so sad to see Nancy Pelosi finally leaving no matter what it doesn't matter what side of the the Spectrum you're on left or right? Everybody.

You have to give that she's a tough lady and she's been in a male dominated, you know occupation for years and years and years and succeeded. I look up to her and I admire if the work that she's done and we just need more women who are willing to I guess put on the gloves and get out there on the mat and it's kind of you know, where we're at right now and really push for more funding. Tell us a little bit about abdom.

So often we started sort of an idea inside abstractor structure. We provide services and Consulting for you know, software testing dabobs, you know, the whole quality around development. We did had actually some products of our own but they all work kept internal.

We were just using it with customers. And up team basically was a product that we built for One customer in the US that we were analyzing the user experience of their mobile apps and they really like it and they actually asked us to just buy a license but there was no way to buy a license because it was something that we you know, just hook inside our platform and kind of use it very inertisenal had made way and that that was something that there was you know, put aside and until this was like 2015 actually until 20, you know beginning of 2019. When I was actually in a coffee shop in Palo Alto very cliche meeting with this customer, but this is many years after I was like we were friends at that time and he asked me like hey, what about this product that he had that I remember like he was so good.

I've never seen something like the way like how easy it was to use like the the way that the results were shown because basically optim you can just run it automatically and we'll scan your app and show you a lot of you know performance issue response and things that developers who look like one, you know, the app is low or is not working on this device or in this network. The experience is not the best. And and I told him like yeah, I know we never did anything with it.

It's just there. And he was at the time actually transitioned he sold his company was a startup. He was transitioning to any Rose like, you know, if you want to do something with it.

Call me. And this this is a this is a male founder from Silicon Valley. Right?

And I was like, okay and then I went back and I kept thinking like no should we do something with it? Like and I went back to like reviewing with the team like were the other customers using the product like and then we were like, yeah, it's just a matter of someone focusing on actually, you know taking this and You know do something with it like the product the the product or the type was the tool is there and that's how I started. We you know to the IP which at the time was owned by a structure.

We you know, a corporate it out to him as a C Corp in Delaware. I had to convince one of the founders out abstracted to be my CTO. So I could be the CEO and we you know form a team of four engineers and we made it to actually launch the product in the middle of the pandemic.

So it was made 2020. Very good timing, very good timing in the sense that we were fully remote already because I wasn't SF the team was parting year what part in Argentina and also because that the pandemic actually saw like huge growth in Mobile specifically in gaming a lot of people in their house, you know, playing games basically and we launched Us in time without knowing or that growth in the gaming industry happens. So we've got a lot of inbound interest from customers, so we didn't have to do any marketing on sales for the first months, which is God to close deals directly from the product literally.

And then we have we kept building all the automation part that was in our Roma how to integrate optim into like a pipeline where you can run it automatically after you have a new build of your app. Now we work exponent to security because we want to do more checks in the pipeline not only performance and potentially other areas. So, you know, there's been our ride the last four years very very lean.

We did raise money from Angels, but we haven't raised any money since then and the main reason is because first We were thinking about raising money this year. We thought this is I mean we talked with some investors or realize this is not the right time. We need more growth, but for more growth also at some point we will need more money.

So we are trying to it's so hard to know when to pull the trigger. I can tell you from my first company. I'm glad that we never raised money and we the it was we had some offers to buy it and we turned them down.

Because keeping control of if you can manage it and you can keep control of your company your ultimately you're better off. to be quite honest Well, I learned a lot about raising money and like giving power to investors before I felt like this is what we need to do. This is a way of doing things.

I want I wouldn't suggest that to everyone right now. We're so lucky that our you know, Angel Investors are the best we could choose like they literally let us know made our own decisions, but also support us for example now, I want to expunge security or like yes, what do you need from us? Even if they want to put more money we say no.

No, it's not the right time because again, we're gonna get more diluted. So I also didn't want to help you question. Exactly.

We got offers these February this year from investors and evolution that I wasn't willing to to give away part of the company and we say no, And then we always found ways to just like basically be sustainable right pay the bills pay the team learn to be literally. Yes, so important and almost, you know a year after we decided like should we fundraised we're still alive? And unfortunately, I know many companies and startups at our stage which were like seed stage that had to shut down because they weren't able to you know have high burn rate they weren't able to raise money in the current environments and they had you know how to make a tough decision.

So yeah, it's kind of I want to keep in control. I want to be in control what's gonna happen. I feel if I bring more people with different interests than things are gonna go sideways.

So okay. Yeah. Yes, I've always but you know, I've been I've never raised money voice try to keep it lean and sustainable and you know pivot when you need to but I have I have made the attempt to raise money and I have not met too many female investors.

And the ones that are they I do meet tend to be kind of down on the partnership rung and they're not too high up and they disappear after they bring me in so it can be that can be kind of hard, you know, not to see sitting you're sitting at a table and you know, you've got a bunch of guys and quite honestly, it can be really disappointing. Yeah, I think that's yeah the other part that needs to change in for this 2% that we talk about is actually having more women in in on the investment side. Yeah, because again the bias unconscious bias.

We all have them it's not like you have we don't everyone has inconsists. It's just having more diversity and both sides both Founders and investors. I did had that experience of you know meeting I didn't meet with the many investors.

I can say maybe like 30 40 Maybe you know four Max were female investors. All the rest are male. Yeah.

And as you said some were more like Associates, so it's not the they are actually not have they're not like decision making roles. Also something that happened to me is like being big even the opportunity to know raise money and and talking to investors. I always try to find those who are I thought I had more things like similarities like they are gonna understand where I come from.

So I did my research. I spend a lot of time researching how investors think who will open the door of course asking for introduction, but also maybe you know cold emailing some that I've thought like they might be interested because of this thing that they are supporting or somewhere are very clear that they actually want you to call email them because they they want to get like a diverse pipeline but others it's just because they're very interested in in our space and it happens that there's a women in the Partnerships, so I want to contact her. and and that happened to me and I was very I actually asked for our Founders introductions only to their female investors.

Because that's like how can I create my Pipeline with female investors as well? Otherwise, if the same happens sometimes when you're hiring right you have to be you have to at least in in my experience. You have to be conscious that I want more women.

I want to interview more women for this role as well. So I'm gonna go out and find them not just wait for them to come because generally speaking if out of University it's only 10% It's obvious that maybe I'm gonna get only 10% CVS from women, right? But I have to be you know, I have to do that extra work and I'm glad that I did that both what both went hiring but also when it was selecting which investors I wanted to speak with so not only male also female not only maybe you know Americans maybe Indie grants as well, you know kind of mixing up my my pipeline of investor meetings so I can have that.

Yet at the end of the day. That's what I was thinking about in terms of who you bring to your cup table having diversity. And there's a lot of awesome men out there who want women to to succeed who are doing their mentorship.

They're just harder to find. Well, one of our lead Angel Investors, he's like that. Yeah, he's amazing in the sense that he's proud to be supporting other women startups.

He actually built a lot of companies based on only man, and I think he also wants to change that for the future with future generations and he's like that. He's just love supporting women and he he's more focused on like you are so smart. It happens that here women and I want to help you more than just oh because you're women a healthy because that's also something that happened.

Right? Like I don't want to be treated differently. I should have the same skills.

I can build businesses. I can build billion dollar businesses. It's just happens that I'm a women exactly.

I always say that I don't want to be treated differently treat me the same and you know that that happens to me with some female investors. It's like oh because you're a women we have this special thing for you right? Let me treat it special like for example Accel Leaders I never wanted to go to next time.

I'm actually reached out to some of those accelerators. And the problem with them is they you know, if I was doing something that was more female oriented, maybe something with selling cookies or makeup they would relate to it better. And that's the problem.

We don't have a lot of Technology women in technology who are VCS. You have to have the combination right you because a lot of there's there's women investors out there, but they're not into technology. So they're not going to invest in technology.

They're going to invest in something else. I swear many times. I I was at like a VC kind of event and I just decided to try this on for size and I pitched a company that was a clothing company for women and everything that we made had Pockets because there's no there's so many they're so you can buy things and the guys they love these really cool Pockets inside and I had a BC asking I want to see some of your clothes it was just kidding.

Hey, but the rockets in our closes are real problem. I mean, I don't pay for that. I see that's right.

I'm gonna say something that maybe something they use my husband quotes just because of the pocket he's that's why I tested it and they were like, that's a fabulous idea. I was like, yeah, we could name it Pockets, you know, that's the name of the company, but that's where I could have holidays talking about holidays last year. I bought matching pandemic pajamas for the whole family and they were all identical from the same company, but nothing female pajamas and Pockets, but love you and they cost the same amount of money and they look identical and I was like, well, maybe I should decided that design.

I'm pretty sure someone made that decision and we just take to it. That just my lesson was yes where there are women out there who want to spend money on women, but they're going to get it. They're going to spend money on what they get excited about.

And you know when you're in a an industry like Sophia and I are they're just aren't a lot of women that get excited about. you know, I'm into s bombs and and supply chain devops intelligence, you know, which I get totally turned on I could talk about it for hours, but Yeah, we're passing and yeah, it happens to me when I realized that actually and you know enterprised sass businesses founded by women. There was a VC very well known visiness that they they wanted to judge dinner with female Founders in Enterprise ass so they reach out to you know, people the new you know from not only SF but no whoever could fly as well and we were about at the end we were about 20 in that group, which was great, but they they told us like it was so hard to find you.

It's like it took us we thought we wouldn't make it possible. Because again like Enterprise selling software to Enterprise it was wider even that as I would be like, I'm more like on the technical side of Enterprise, which is even like a niche because in this case you could have also like Enterprise like Payroll Solutions or you know, exactly exactly but that is like about the tech that the company's run on. Right, it's super it's an area that it's not common to have women.

I can't tell you I talk with in that list of investors. I probably talk with all female investors which are probably few that actually invest in our space in the whole us. It's not a lot.

Not a lot because again, they have to understand like you have to be you know, you need to First understand to actually, you know, speak the same language. You need to be interested to be excited. You need to be confident.

So usually they will come from being practitioners operators. I think those were the best investors like they are have actually done something and then they turn into VC all of the investors we have now they were they are actually they were actually Founders themselves. So that helps a lot because they understand you they have empathy.

They know things are not always gonna go the way you want them to but yeah, it's super hard to find women in the same space in our technical space, even, you know, even harder and let you know it's a way if you're like women and also Latina minority and minority I never feel like that was something that That there was a disadvantage. I know it's like this is how things are. You know, how can I use this in my favor in a way?

So that's why I got this network of women in latan for example, like so I can relate and they can I can relate to them they can relate to me they have investors have investor in them. So they recommended which ones are the best. So it's just good to have like your group of peers that you identify with because they understand you better.

But then again it's like you're competing with everyone else in the world. So why would you treat me differently? Yeah.

So when you were when you were a young woman or a little girl, where did you decide you were gonna you were interested in this kind of stuff? Like I'm always curious because we've talked with people who whose parents told them they had to do stem or they wouldn't pay for their college education or and they never thought it was something they'd want to do but then when they did it they enjoyed it, but how did you get because I think it's super important for us to think about that with our Our Girls. yeah, I don't really and that's that's also I think because When you look at the numbers like the amount of women that actually choose the career is like you decided that many years before so what happens while you're in high school.

What are you talking with their friends? Like is it something that you're gonna be interested in or not? And like just focusing on that population and things very important actually increase the future number of of girls in Tech.

My story is is not is not common in the sense that is not something that I wanted to do for for my whole life. It's not like, oh I want to be a computer engineer or even an entrepreneur or a CEO never ever or Court to me that I didn't even know that was a possibility right and in my family they were all like lawyers, you know doctors my parents Architects. No Engineers, no computer Engineers actually.

Yes my heart my sorry my Engineers yes, but no computer engineers. So I didn't have that like oh you have to do this or this is a future or it's like whatever you want to do. You can do it.

I was very good with numbers. So my first tag was like I should economics I you know, this is kind of an area that I'm interested. I want to learn how the economies work and why this happens But this is more like understanding the world kind of that was why I thought economics was the the career for me.

I actually started University in nearby sending economics. I didn't like it sir. The first semester I was this is not for me.

This is not what I imagining but at the same time I also and this is part of my my life. I did like many things at the same time when I wasn't sure I also started engineering I did like two universities. Engineering the only reason what I did it is because I I was able to enter as well by by when I finished high school.

He had like different options. So I had I can do economics or engineering but actually starting studying mechanical engineering. Oh wow.

Because again, why not? I didn't like the other ones. That's the truth.

I was exposed to computers since I was a child. It's true mostly because my brother play a lot and I got access to that but it wasn't something that I thought like, oh, I could actually work using computers or actually programming so it wasn't until like the last the second semester of the first year when I say like economy is not for me. I'm doing this mechanical engineering thing that I really like it.

I already felt that So I tried programming as one of the subjects that was shared with all the engineerings and I just fall in love. I was like, oh I can create things just like writing a program then like running in compiling and seeing that. Oh, it actually does, you know what I want and then I can change this and they that I wasn't very interested in media gratification.

They got me too. It's funny. I studied econ my first two years and mechanical engineering.

Oh really? I swear I wanted to build cars. In fact, I I went to Cal Poly Pomona, which is a it's a The considered a technical school and they have really small classes and one of my classes.

We got to build a car like a go-kart and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. My mother said what are you gonna do go move to Detroit and then I thought about it was like I don't want to move to Detroit and so I started working on some of the programming for the car and that's when I was like, oh my goodness I do something and it's actually on the screen already.

Yeah, and that's what got me it's building things building things that I learned. He's like building things and just seeing the results and understanding how things were but it was like, oh this is how a computer works and this is how this works and like, you know all the different layers and how you know, how do you get a signal when you're connected? So I was amazed by that.

But these were the two things is like a building things something that I was. Okay like this is and that's when I feel like okay. This is my my career.

Like I saw, you know, very comfortable and happy here. But because that first year was super intense, I was doing like two different careers and knowing what to do with my life is that then I took that ear off I went to Ireland but then I came back with you even more assurance that I chose the right career because in Ireland I met people from Amazon from Google like everyone that was in doubling working for the hercuers of this tech companies. They were like, oh, yeah, you should study it is like this is you know the future and I was like, okay, I'm ready to to finish my my degree, but I wasn't, you know something that I always felt this is my whole And I love hearing people's stories somehow.

Listen, actually. Yeah, when I actually know as I told you the story of octane, it wasn't like I want to be an entrepreneur. He's like there's this thing here that we build there's this person that has a lot of influence and can mentor me to launch a startup and I mean Silicon Valley, let's do it.

It is like connecting the dogs. But it's not something that I was planning every day. And because I was I wasn't planning it it also meant that a lot of things have to learn by just doing them, but that's when you have your support network or your mentors.

I believe 100% in mentors. I think that can change lives both for like support when you're you know, emotional support for sure. But also like someone that understands where you're going through and can give you you know, that, you know feedback that you need that.

It's not gonna be again your mom or sometimes even your co-worker or your co-founder and you're like a phasing the same challenges. So having mentors as well has as being a key part of my whole journey of becoming an entrepreneur and she's gaining that confidence as a female founder in space or you know, we are minority. Confidence is so important and it's an area.

I think that a lot of women we just don't oftentimes have the confidence. I always tell people or tell my lady friends who are going through similar things. I tell them go get a black belt.

I have a black belt. I wouldn't got a black belt. I do practice what I preach but it teaches you to get on the mat with guys.

And there is it you it builds confidence in a way that I can't really put my finger on I can just say if confidence is something if to our listeners out there as a woman that you're struggling or you're you don't you haven't found your voice yet. It's hard to find your voice often go get a black belt, you know, it's a really really good way to do it. You know, maybe now that the pandemic's over we can start going to exercise.

Well, it's not really over but it's getting better. Let's hope that we don't have another pandemic coming out of China from you know, some crazy strain of covid but Get back in the get in the gym with some guys and go to the mat with some guys and it'll change how you it'll change how you are at work. That's great Tracy.

I think that's a great place because we are pretty much out of time. We've gone quite a while. It's a time flies when you're having a great conversation Sophia.

It was so great to meet you. Thank you for being here expect to hear from me again soon because I would love to have you on a couple of my other shows that we do here at Tech strong you and I have chatted a little bit and timing hasn't worked out, but would love to see you again and Tracy. Thank you again for another fun episode of tech strong women, and we got we will see you guys back here in a couple of weeks.

So, thanks a lot and have a great day. Thank you. Thank you both.