Building Brands, Communities, and Inclusive Teams in Tech – Tech.Strong.Women. EP48

Hi everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Techstrong Women, where we feature amazing women doing amazing things in tech. I'm Jody Ashley, executive producer here at Techstrong, and I'm here with Mike, co-host Tracy Reagan, creator, and CEO of Deploy Hub, and very active member of the Linux Foundation.

Before I introduce today's guest, I wanna give you a quick update about what's happening here at techron. We recently launched another new site, Techron It, so go out there and check it out. Lots of great content, um, fun stuff to watch.

com and see what's going on and what you might wanna jump in and submit papers to participate in. 'cause we would love to have you, and you should always tune in to strong TV every day to watch all of our great shows and interviews. Hey, Tracy, what's on your mind today?

So, so in our last call I talked about, I believe it was our last call, um, Renee James, uh, who, uh, started a company and sold it for six and a half billion dollars to SoftBank focused on, um, chip design. So I'm gonna follow up with that, and this is a little more sober, um, but we as a country are facing a very uncomfortable situation, let's just put it that way. Um, we're watching now, uh, China, um, do, uh, warfare practice in the, the China Sea.

And what is that about? It probably is about a blockade against Taiwan. Intel is the only US manufacturer of chips, the only one doing it, and they're in a pretty bad situation financially as a company if Intel crumbles, so does the security of the us.

It's just the fact, um, unfortunately in Intel doesn't manufacture all the chips that we need. The chips that we use in military are not manufactured by Intel because that technology is pretty much with, um, other, other chip manufacturers that are making the chips with the expertise to make the chips in Taiwan. So this is a bad situation.

We wanna make sure that Ty, that, you know, Taiwan is not something we have to rely on for chip manufacturing. Um, so, you know, I I'm not a, I I don't make, you know, investment recommendations at all, and it may not be a moneymaking one. However, right now is a good time to vote with an investment in, uh, Intel.

Um, another thing that's happening around this space is the new administration may get rid of the CHIPS Act and that would've helped, uh, Intel build chip manufacturing in places like Texas, which they have pulled out of for now. So we're in a bad situation, uh, Intel's in a bad situation and I'm calling everybody, uh, calling on everybody to really consider getting the intel, um, stocks to go up so that they stay viable as a company making chips in the us. Uh, because without them we have no chip manufacturing and that is devastating.

Yikes. Yeah, that's kind of sobering, isn't it? But it is the reality.

So we wanna talk about it. We gotta keep talking about what's going on and, uh, respond accordingly. Thanks, trace.

Alright, so we have an amazing guest today. We're very excited, and I did not ask her how to properly pronounce her name, so I'll probably hatch, but I'd like to introduce Sylvia. Is it Lavin?

Lavin? Yeah, you have It. Hilden Hoo.

I know French and my ex-husband's family is all Italian, so I had enough of that stuff in my brain, so Wow. I'm pretty proud of myself actually. Yeah, Lavin is a French name, actually, So, yeah.

Yeah, that's why I ringed it. I thought I was French. All right.

Yay. All right. Well, Sylvia, we're excited to have you here today.

Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, thank you so much, Jody and Tracy for having me. It's incredible to be here.

Um, so back background today where I'm at is I am the Chief Marketing Officer of Kanji and Kanji. We work with Apple devices, so we do device management, endpoint detection, response, vulnerability management, essentially anything IT security needs. You know, teams need to make sure that employees have an incredible, but also a very secure experience working on their Apple devices.

And I have a, I have a whole crazy backstory of how I got here, which we can get, go as deep into as you would like, but I'll give you kind of the highlights. So I actually grew up in Africa my entire life. My parents worked in nonprofit.

My dad was a pilot in the middle of nowhere in Africa, in a country of Mozambique. And so I lived there my whole life, uh, came to the US when I was 17 for college, went to LA and went to college there. Ended up really falling into tech.

I got recruited into a tech company as their first marketing hire. I think I was 22 or 23, and certainly underqualified for that role at the time. Um, and they actually, when they hired me, they told me you're, they alluded to the fact that I was the, the least experienced and, and likely youngest candidate that they were speaking to.

Um, but they hired me anyway. And that was such a launching pad for me. 6 billion.

They're eyeing and IPO, they're doing great. Um, so I, I kind of started my career in tech there, um, and really just learned the ropes in the field. Had some incredible mentors who helped me along the way.

Um, and then after that went to a company, company called DataFox. They got acquired by Oracle. Um, it was actually Oracle's AI group.

This was back before AI was cool. And then, uh, after that I went to, I went to Kanji. So I really love this, this role.

I'm of playing this first marketing hire. I was the first marketing hire at Kanji as well. I was actually our fourth employee.

Um, we're at almost 300 now, so we've come a long way since then. Um, but I've been here for a few years. Um, and I'm actually based in Miami now.

I've been here for three years. And, um, building a team here and, and growing, uh, the Miami Tech community as well is something I'm really passionate about. Um, but yeah, lots of learnings and, uh, mentors that have helped me along the way on that, on that journey, but excited to be here and to be able to really speak to other women as well that are, you know, eyeing leadership roles or wanting to advance in their careers, or wanting to just find that next level of what does something that's, you know, work that feels really purposeful and aligned.

Like what does that look like, uh, and feel like, uh, especially in a leadership role. So, few things I'm really passionate about. We can go, we can go deeper into any of those things that, that you both would like.

I'll see what Tracy wants to grab first. I Love your website. Wow.

I really love your website. I love the educ, the educational content videos on it. Um, so I want you to teach us a little bit about how to build a beautiful website that is beautiful to kinda attract women, but we'll also attract men, right?

It's a really nice website, so you know, everybody out there go look at our website. It is really beautiful. Of all the places you were gonna go, that that was not what I was expecting.

That was what I would've guessed either. No, I appreciate that. Um, yeah, I think brand is really, really important to us.

And I think a lot of folks think, you know, especially, you know, we, we work a lot with the IT buyer, right? And a lot of folks I think, think that it doesn't care that much about something being an elegant, you know, experience. But the website is actually a reflection of our product itself.

Like that DNA runs really deep, and it comes from our founders and a lot of our team come from Apple, right? Like, this is what Apple cares about and this is what we care about. I think we've kind of inherited that value.

Um, and so brand is just, it's something we prioritize. It's something we care about. And, uh, for the website specifically, um, something, you know, a few kind of like principles that have really guided us that have gotten us there.

I think one is just, you know, uh, consistency and it, it sounds really, you know, simple and basic. But we, we developed that brand, sort of the look and feel and design of the site, uh, quite some time ago. But since then, we adhere very, we're very dedicated to making sure everything looks and feels very, very consistent.

I think a lot of a really cohesive, elegant, you know, experience that drives a lot of trust, uh, with men or women is based on consistency. Consistency creates trust. And so that's something that's very, very important to us.

We haven't always done, you know, an excellent job of it. I can look at the website and probably see a bunch of examples of things I wish were even more consistent, but that consistency, I think creates a lot of trust and is really important. And our, you know, our buyers really, really love it.

If, if you read through our G two reviews, everyone's like, it's beautiful to use from, you know, the product to the website. And so it definitely runs throughout the, the entire company and is something we care a lot about. I totally agree with you, the consistency.

If you click on something, you get a 4 0 4 or some weird thing happens, or I don't think people focus enough, and I've noticed you guys have on how it's gonna look on this versus how it's gonna look on my giant screen or how it's gonna look on my iPad, and you pull it up and you're like, I can't do. So I love it. I think it's, that's super important.

I agree with you a hundred percent trace, what were you gonna say? Well, it's hard to follow Apple, um, in terms of their look and feel. They have a very specific look and feel.

You think about the Apple stores, right? And how those Apple stores feel you really are drawn into them. There's a kind of a, I hate to call it mid-century modern, but there's a modern clean list to it.

It's clean, it's clear. And I feel like you've made an attempt here to stay in line with the way Apple presents things. And that is not an easy task force, small company.

I mean, it takes money, it takes focus, and sometimes, um, we don't do that as a small company. And, um, so, you know, was there a discussion internally of how to put money into this? Um, so I, I know you said it 'cause kind of consistent, but how does upper management see that?

Because it's not always the case where beauty and elegance is built into a product. Yeah, absolutely. And very much so, very consistent.

So in the early days of Kaji, when I started as an early employee, we, we've worked with a couple different, you know, groups, agencies, et cetera, to sort of define sort of an anchor piece of the brand. And so the brand on the website that you see right now, a lot of that came out of actually, uh, a video was a motion graphics video we did with an agency. They created that for us.

Um, and so you see the, the, a lot of the graphics with the repeating laptops that are in a, in a row, you know, it's like, it's beautiful. Its beautiful. Yeah.

It speaks to this. What we do is we, that's exactly what we do. We get these in massive fleets of Apple devices and we get them in line, right?

So like, that's what those visuals speak to. And that video became such an anchor asset that we were able to build out a lot of brand components around it. So I think a lot of times it starts with a single project like that and then evolves into, and is woven into the, the entire brand.

And it's best if a project like that is done when it's the, there's a thoughtfulness to why it's done that way, right? Those repeating laptops are there because of the scale that we are able to manage. And so there's a thoughtfulness to it and there's a why it's not just a beautiful image.

It it actually speaks to the functionality and the value that we provide as well. Well, I think if they would, if we were doing, you know, some kind of a Emmy award for, uh, educational videos, that that would be on the top of my list. You know, I love the beginning of shows.

Mm-hmm. Like, um, uh, severance has an awesome opening, right? Yes, it does.

It has a, it's very clear as to what the show is gonna be like. And I always think that they should have like, some kind of a part of the Oscars or something should be those opening sessions because it's like trying to build a small house. It's harder to do that and to convey a message in something that's so concise.

But you've done it. So I, I encourage everybody to check it out, especially if you're in, um, the technical marketing area. It's a, it's a, it's a beautiful example of what can be done really, really well.

Yeah. I love it. Yeah.

And then you mentioned the educational videos. I think a big focus for us right now is community. And I hear this across, you know, every CMO that I speak to right now, there's a huge focus on brand and community building.

And community can mean something different to everyone, right? But to us it means we have this loyal following of customers. We have all of these folks in the industry that are trying to learn and advance their careers.

Like, how can we be this connecting tissue that brings together all of the incredible knowledge that's out there and share that and provide value to the, to the community, and in that way, bring people together. So it's about us. Yes.

'cause we wanna be a driver and we want to project, you know, all the knowledge we have internally as well, which is all, we have many smart people internally we get to tap into, you know, to be able to share their knowledge. But beyond that, it's about bringing the entire community together. And so this is something I'm hearing just across the board as a general focus for marketing leaders and something that's really important to us right now as well.

Boy, community building is really so key, isn't it? Because you want your community to be, feel like they're part of the organization. I think that some of the, um, like Fitbit, uh, there, I mean, there are some really good examples of how important community is in building your brand.

Um, absolutely. And I wouldn't think, you know, you know that a, a company like Kanji would be that focused on building community because, you know, how does your community interact and how do they fit in? Because some of what you do is kind of, you know, back in security, making sure these devices are up to, you know, upgraded.

Um, so how do you get community involved? You know, what, how do you do that outreach for that? And is it, and is it important for them to understand why they should be do, uh, interacting with you?

Yeah, all, all the above. I think the most important part is starting with who is your audience? Where do they like to hang out?

What do they like to do? What do they like to talk about? If you start with really deeply understanding your, this community that you want to reach out to, then you can really meet them where they are.

And so community could mean plugging into existing communities. The, the, there's these Mac admins meetups, for example, all over the world, and we've started just reaching out to a lot of them being like, can we, you know, buy our next, you know, beer or pizza for your meetup? Or can we provide one of our office spaces to meet in?

We're actually doing one in our office here in Miami next week. And so a lot of it's just like, you can find where that community's already meeting and then you can help, you know, bring value, even if it's something, something small and minor, a way to just contribute to that community. Or you can create your own communities.

Um, and so for us, for example, LinkedIn, we post a lot of educational content on there. And so that's a community space that we're, you know, building the, that's our own. There's also different Slack communities that we're in and things like that.

So it's usually a combination of, you know, slotting into ones that already exist or creating your own. But it all has to start from just really deeply understanding who you're trying to reach. And then it will become very clear and obvious kind of how to best reach them.

There would've been a time not too long ago that, that probably, that conversation wouldn't have started with LinkedIn. It would've started with X. Um, we are chasing what can, you know, what platform that should we be on?

And we're finding that LinkedIn is probably the best bet. Um, you know, do you guys do any outreach on any of the other platforms like masteron or, uh, blue Sky, Maton and Blue Sky? We haven't invested much in yet.

They're still smaller. Um, and we have, we have surveyed our audience and, and tried to understand if they're worth investing in, and I think they will be at some point, but they're not at the top of the list at the moment. Um, X is still, I'd say it's less prevalent than it used to be in the past.

Um, I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on X. Some marketing leaders will say, you know, a lot of companies are departing from X, but individuals are still on it, so there's an opportunity there. You should, should still be there.

And then I've also heard the flip side where, you know, don't, don't invest in it. Uh, in my experience, the security community in gen in particular is still very active on x is from what we've seen. But I do think LinkedIn is, is the biggest one that's, you know, the most obvious choice and one that has just a lot of future potential that most groups are at least somewhat engaged on.

I feel like it's the most professional of them. I mean, where it's really about professional content. Yeah.

Um, You know, and we all know that recruiters looking for to hire are pretty focused on it. So I think that they have found their niche and they're serving us all very well. Yes.

Yes. Definitely. Thank goodness for them.

Yeah. So, you know, I like to talk about, um, vulnerabilities, um, and software vulnerabilities. Uh, and I know that you guys have, uh, some vulnerability patch management.

Can you talk a little bit about what you guys are doing around vulnerability, you know, and, and automating the patch management? Yeah, so this is one of the most interesting recent launches that we've had. Uh, we released vulnerability management a few months ago, but what makes it really unique is because our, you know, our starting point is a company was with device management.

So generally with the way that vulnerability management works is, you know, so the security team will flag a vulnerability in their tool, and then they'll kind of throw it over the fence to it to be like, okay, fix the problem. Which often involves patching, you know, an outdated version of an app. But because we have MDM and vulnerability management more consolidated and unified in one platform, there's all of these incredible automations and much more speed and automation you can build into that patching process that makes it much easier.

So I, I see it as it's a time saver, obviously, because you don't have this, you know, situation where you're throwing it over the fence to another team that then has to sort of pick up the pieces and figure it out. But you also reduce your risk exposure. The faster you can get to that patch and resolve the vulnerability, then the less exposed you are to that risk.

Right. So, time saving, yes. But I think at the end of the day, the time saving and automation is, is really most valuable in the context of, you know, protecting the company from risk and reducing that, that window of exposure.

And when you de deliver your software, you're delivering it. This is an enterprise, uh, solution, correct? Yeah.

I mean, we have massive large enterprise customers. We also have many small companies. I mean, if you have more than 10 Apple devices at your company, you likely need a solution like ours because no IT or security team is gonna, you know, go around to each device and make sure that all the settings are in place all the time.

And so, uh, we, we have many, you know, smaller companies that use the, the solution as well. And when you talk about device, you're talking about, um, obviously Macs and phones. Are there other devices that I'm not thinking about?

Yes. So it's Mac, iPhone, iPad, um, apple tv. And then we just released Vision as well, which there's some really interesting vision os use cases that are emerging.

It's, it's certainly still, you know, the smallest of all those different categories. Um, but there's some incredibly interesting kind of use cases, um, in like aerospace, for example, um, around Vision os. And so that'll be a, a fun one to kind of see where that goes in the future.

And what about the public sector? I mean, does a public sector use, um, you know, apple phones and Apple endpoints that might be air gapped? You would be surprised?

They certainly do. Um, and we do have public se sector customers. I wouldn't say it's the, the largest base of customers generally, uh, customers.

I mean, we, we serve anyone who uses Apple, right? But a lot of our customers tend to be companies in technology. Um, because generally any, you know, modern tech company is gonna be, they're gonna have MacBooks for everyone.

It's just a, a, a trend and it's something that modern companies do. So that's definitely a huge use case. But there's also other use cases like retail stores with, you know, thousands of iPads or iPhones that they use for checkout and things like that.

I didn't even think about that. There's a lot, right? Yeah, There's a lot.

Yeah. And then you start really getting at, when you're, when you're at that edge, it becomes even more important that those vulnerabilities be patched so quickly. You know, a soft code level vulnerabilities are taking about a hundred days to, to get remediated, uh, per company.

Wow. Yeah. So That's not gonna work.

That's a hundred, a hundred according to Sonotype 185 for government. Wow. It takes a while.

I mean, there's, you know, in terms of code level there, we're at about 250,000 vulnerabilities. We'll probably get another 50 to 60,000 this year. Um, some people are still downloading old versions of Log for, shell log for j uh, and, and building out solutions around them, which means, um, apps that's running on your, on your, in your Apple devices.

So it's a, it's, you're, you're taking on a pretty big challenge. And we do something similar. We're, we're into the vulnerability management space as well.

So it is, um, it, it's worthy, a worthy, um, cause and I think people should be more serious about it, to be quite honest. I think that there's some com there's complacent in really thinking about how vulnerabilities could impact an organization and their customers. Well, and remember the day when we were all in the office together and you had your IT guy who came over and did your updates and did all that.

And now you've got people spread out all over the world that worked for your company. How do you make sure, I personally, I'm not a Mac user, not a fan, but we do have, I have an iPad and an iPhone and an Apple tv, no vision, but knowing my husband as well as we do Tracy, and it's probably a matter of time before he's got something like that hooked up in our house. But, um, yeah, I mean, how do, how do you, how do you secure your entire organization when everyone's remote?

Um, that's, I know that's a big question we've talked about around here for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, it's critical.

It's not a, it's not a nice to have, that's for sure. So you said you went from a very interesting childhood. I might have.

That's pretty, you said you lived in Mozambique? I did, yeah. In Northern Mozambique.

Very, very remote part of the world because my dad's a pilot with this nonprofit. Basically they go to parts of the world where it's impossible to get around. There's no roads, or the roads are very unsafe, or there's terrain or mountains or you know what, for whatever reason.

So he has a flying doctor program and just generally supports even just like development groups that are trying to, you know, build a resort on the beach somewhere. You know, it could be anything. Um, he's flow politicians and they'll have flooding, he'll fly supplies, you know, just whatever you can imagine.

But that's what that nonprofit does. And so, uh, by nature of that, we always lived basically in the middle of nowhere. So Were you homeschooled by a ticket?

I have done every form of school you can imagine. I homeschooled, I was homeschooled as a kid. Um, I went to a little private, like elementary school that kind of the, the foreign families put together.

Um, and then I did some online school. And then for high school I actually went to boarding school in Kenya. So I would fly there for three months for high school, and then I'd fly home for a month, fly there for three months.

I did that throughout the year. Um, so spent a lot of time. Kenya is an incredible place.

Um, and I absolutely loved, uh, boarding school. But yeah, so when I, when I went to college, it was like just kind of another school. It wasn't, you know, this big thing that it was for many of the other kids, but it was all an incredible experience.

I wouldn't absolutely wouldn't change a thing. I think growing up in a different part of the world, you just have a different baseline of gratitude for what you have when you've been around your whole life. People that have nothing, many of which are the happiest people I've ever met, by the way.

And, and, uh, yeah, you just have a different perspective and, and worldview of, of, you know, yeah. Like success or happiness or how big the world is. Um, and so, you know, challenge hardship, all these things were just amazing lessons that I learned as a kid wouldn't change a thing because it just, you know, made me who I am today.

Yeah. On the happiness scale, I think that they, they brought that out recently. Um, I think that Nordic countries were on the top and the US is way down around 35 or something.

We didn't even show up on the happiness scale. It's a lot hot. Shocking.

My mom is actually born and raised in Norway, so half of my extended family is there. I I went there many times as a kid, and I can attest they are very happy people there. It's a wonderful place.

But it's also hard to compare, right? Norway is, I think 5 million people. And so you're comparing that sample size to the entire us I think it's kind of an unfair scale.

Maybe, so maybe we should do it by state. Yeah. I don't know.

I'm just, I'm just chuckling. 'cause I remember the whole Norway rakes, their forests comment wasn't that Norway that was referred to for fighting fires because they don't get fires because they rake their forests didn't, Yeah. They rake their Forests.

That was a, that was a brilliant comment made by the, the, uh, commander in chief at the time, a few years ago. And the current, um, during the forest fires in California, he told Gavin Newsom the governor, well, you know, we need to be more like Norway because they rake their forest. And that image of these woman, these people that look like you blonde and fair skinned out there with rakes doing their thing.

I mean, I've done a lot of hiking in Norway. I It's beautiful. It is beautiful.

But the forest looked relatively un raked. So, so I, I don't recall, I don't recall them thinking that tightly. Yeah, I digress that it just made me chuckle.

So What was it like, seriously Come to visit, you went From a very remote, uh, childhood. Very remote, yeah. To LA what, what, what school did you go to?

It was a tiny little private school you would've never heard of, which was for the best because it would've ended up at UCLA, it probably would've been incredibly overwhelming. Oh my Goodness. But what school?

I'm from There. Yeah. It was called the Zu Pacific, so it was out, Yes, Uhhuh Of course, great place to land coming from the middle of nowhere.

Absolutely. Um, but still a transition of course. Like wow, I think It's a city like la Absolutely.

Yeah, exactly. And then I lived in LA for probably 15 years, you know, after I, after I got there. Um, had a great experience there, but it was definitely a big transition coming from Africa.

Um, and yeah, there was a lot of things that stood out to me. I think the biggest thing I learned as part of that, that transition was that being an outsider is actually the greatest superpower you could possibly have. And I had, you know, classmates of mine that moved to the US and they would sort of hide their background or try to fit in or try to be like everyone else.

And I did that to some extent, but I think I really embraced just like my unique story. And I found that I would tell people about it and they'd be like, whoa, that's so interesting. And it really just helps you stand out.

And I think that applies, you know, has applied to my entire life. You know, oftentimes in, in the tech world, in the security world, in the business world, I'm often the only woman or certainly the only one with the, the growing up background that I did. Right.

And these things all just make you stand out. And I think if you really learn to embrace those and love the things that are different about you, they can become, they can make you so limitless because you're not like everyone else. And I think a lot of people, you know, give that away and try to hide it or try to be like everyone else.

And it's, it's, you can actually be, I think, very successful by embracing what makes you stand out. And so that's really what I learned as, you know, landing in the middle of LA from the middle of nowhere was, you know, I can embrace that story and really use it to, you know, just make me stand out and be a more interesting person. I think it speaks idea, yeah.

It speaks to the broader DEI conversation that we are continue to have, um, you know, what does it mean to be diverse and inclusive? What, you know, what, what are we really talking about? And maybe it's not using particular pronouns, but maybe it is having a broader knowledge of what the world looks like.

Mm-hmm. And I don't know if all Americans have that broad of a knowledge what the world looks like. My, um, a couple of my in-laws, um, who, you know, pretty much stay in the suburbs of Chicago, ended up going to Amsterdam and they didn't know how to use public transportation.

They had to call their daughter to figure out how to use the public transportation. Right. Um, to me that is a lesson in, in being, in being diverse and inclusive because now they're experiencing a life that's so different from their own that it gives you a broader perspective.

I know I went from LA to New York. Um, I spent the first probably two weeks with my heads looking straight up. 'cause I couldn't believe how tall the buildings were since the, you don't have tall buildings in LA because we're earthquakes.

Mm-hmm. Um, did that make me more diverse and inclusive? It taught me something.

It taught me how other people live that somebody lives at, you know, 50 floors up. Which to me, it just blew my mind that that was their, their life experience living up in the sky. So, you know, I think that, uh, and, and even in software and, uh, as few women as there are in technology, and many of them do go into the area that you're in in marketing.

And I think that's a, a, an amazing place for women to be. 'cause we're better at communicating, to be quite honest. We ha as women in those roles, especially if you're trying to talk, speak to men, mainly men, you have to have a diverse, um, attitude.

You realize you're not selling to yourself. You're selling to somebody who doesn't look like you. And I feel like that conversation is so important and we don't have it because we get caught up on the wrong topics in diversity inclusion.

And I don't think d and I did us a whole lot of good, it certainly didn't include how much money is invested in women technology or women, women owned companies. Um, and I don't know if it increased the number of women in, in c-level positions around the world. Um, but we, we do have to have a bigger, broader conversation about how we're different, even if it's between people who live in New York and people who live in Alabama.

Yeah. And I feel like we should have some sort of a, I don't know, a job corpse or something for kids outta high school where they can go and live for six months somewhere completely different in it within the United States. Mind you, you know, you're raised in LA go live in, you know, someplace completely different.

Like maybe Huntsville, you know, know Alabama. Wouldn't that be an interesting project? That is really interesting.

'cause it's like the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes is, is the, the core of it. And I think that's a transferable skill, right? Like, I feel like I can connect with almost anyone because I grew up around so many different types of people.

My high school was a international school with every nationality you could possibly imagine. And so I know that I can find some common ground with absolutely anyone. And I think that's a transferrable skill.

And yeah, if maybe you gave people those experiences to, to go around and see how big the world is and find some connection in some unfamiliar places, then they would realize that that's, you know, possible anywhere I think that comes out in your website. Wow. Honestly, I do.

I think that that comes out in your website. I think you, it showed that you were able to listen to your community and to understand the brand that you had to keep up with, which is Apple. Yeah.

Right. So that experience has translated into your ability to produce a, a, a brand and a product. Not that you are producing the product, but the brand is so important to the product.

And I'm sure you've been driving that, that shows that you've listened and that shows you, you can, you can be a thousand, you know, a thousand different people, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

No, it's so true. That's such an important skill and marketing specifically. And I think a lot of companies, I think every company struggles with this, where especially in marketing, you're, you're, you're preparing something, you wanna put something out, you wanna tell a story.

It's like you want the story to resonate with you. You're always kind of dealing with your own bias and you really have to go outside your four walls or else it's just gonna be this like echo chamber that doesn't resonate with the, with the audience. And so, yeah, we're constantly creating things that, uh, it's not something I would've created for myself or, you know, sometimes I'll, I'll send things to people for review and they're like, I wouldn't open that email.

And I'm like, it doesn't matter. It's not for you. Exactly.

Exactly. And that's because of your background. I really do believe that.

And that's why you've succeeded. So, so I mean, you, you've obviously achieved some serious levels of success in this, in this space. And I, when you, when you explained your background, it was like, no wonder has the ability to listen and to, you know, pivot and to understand.

Because when you have a diverse background like that, that's what you learn. Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

And I think, um, coming back to the, just the DEI conversation you were talking about earlier as well, it's interesting. I think a lot of companies try to check the boxes, uh, you know, benefits for women or, you know, all of these sort of logistical things to try to support the growth of diverse talent, right? But I think the answer is a lot more nuanced than that.

Maybe it's the skill of, you know, putting someone, you're, you're being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. But I think it's more about creating a culture of, of openness and connection and leaders being able to kind of tear down their own walls and connect with someone else. And I think that's really the difference that I've seen at companies that thrive in that, you know, diverse thought versus the ones that that don't.

And so maybe this sort of broad, you know, worldview is, which I do think is more, you know, common in the world probably than it used to be in the past, um, can be a driver of some of that more, you know, open connection and, and the actually accelerating diversity and leadership versus some of the more traditional things that, um, that are helpful of course, but may not be the, the answer to really moving the needle. Yeah. I think the way we put DEI together in a lot of ways within universities and businesses, and yeah, it was a checklist, right?

We do, we have to do this, this, this, and this, instead of being more global about it and trying to, like you said, get people to connect with one another and not put labels on everything, because that's just frustrating and can be confusing as a, a person that is older, um, having a queer child who is an actor and lives in New York City now grew up in Colorado, but went to very diverse school programs, which they were within the, the state, but they were schools that brought kids together from every, every place around the state to participate. And it made her, it made her very much, um, it, it gave her the ability to really relate to everybody, just like what you're saying, you, you learned it in a foreign country. But we were able to provide that to her and her local education.

And I think it was hugely important. And I just think if we did more of that and did, did less of the, the labeling and the check boxes, that's what people hate. They hate being told, here's your list and you have to fulfill it.

Right. Nobody, that's I think what people are pushing back on. So I I, I agree wholeheartedly with what, what you're talking about, for sure.

Yeah. And I think mentorship is really important as well. And coming back to what we were talking about, about being, being an outsider and learning to kind of use that as an advantage.

Like this is what I tell young women that I mentor in, in leadership as well. Sometimes they'll come into a conversation and they'll be like, it's so difficult being a woman in the business world or in the tech world, or the x whatever description. And I always invite them to reframe that a little bit and ask themselves, what are the ways that this can make you stand out?

Like, what are the ways you can turn this into a superpower where you can step into something that's really authentic for you and use that to, to feel confident and, and thrive and really stand on your own and not just be one of the crowd. Right. Maybe that can be an advantage.

I think just inviting some, some reframe around that as well. Um, yes, there may of course be challenges too, but you know, that doesn't mean we need to ignore some of the positives that we can lean into as well. And I think that's something that I, you know, certainly did when I was younger that I learned through this whole experience that's really, really served me.

And, you know, I've, I've, I still learned that lesson sometimes and, and, uh, I'm definitely not perfect at it, but I think it's, it's a useful one to just kind of think about the opportunity a little bit differently. That's amazing. To, to take that idea of, Hey, I'm the only woman in the room.

I'm gonna, I I stand out, I've already got a foot up. What can I do with that? Yeah.

I think that's a spectacular analogy. I'm gonna share that with my child. So why don't you tell me, why don't you tell us a little bit something about pavilion?

Yeah, so Pavilion, I'm, I'm really excited about this. So I just took over, uh, a couple months ago the, to be the Miami Chapter head. I'm co chaptering it with a, with another woman, a friend of mine.

Uh, but Pavilion is a, a global tech go to market community. So I think they have over 10,000 members all over the world. They have chapters in every major city in London, New York, Denver, you know, everywhere, uh, across the world.

And it's just a place for, you know, tech leaders to come together and learn from each other. And so I took over the Miami chapter recently because I feel like the tech community here is so big, but so disconnected. Like no one knows each other.

And a lot of people in Miami work remotely for companies in New York or San Francisco. Obviously we have tech companies here too. Ji's one of them.

We have a big office here. But a lot of the tech community here feels like there's no tech community, but there is, they just don't know each other. And so that's what I'm really excited about creating here, is this opportunity to come together and build in community and learn from each other.

I think even sometimes just the, the, the simple act of knowing that you're not alone in something can be really empowering. And so just giving folks a space to, to come together and talk about challenges and what they're overcoming and what they're working on, um, is really gonna strengthen the whole community here. And I love living here in Miami.

I wanna be here for a long time. I want Kanji to continue to, to grow and thrive here. And so I want the tech community to thrive alongside it as well.

I think I should join. It sounds like something I should do. 'cause I'm in New Mexico.

You should and I feel that all the time. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. It's like, and they ha I wonder, I don't know if they have a local cha, you'll have to look up the local chapters, obviously, but there's also the global, like Slack you can, can connect with anyone there, and they have courses and stuff as well.

So definitely recommend. It's, it's been so impactful to me in my own career As well as mentors. Absolutely.

Yes. Who has mentored you along the way? Along so many, so many people.

I think, uh, a moment that stands out to me actually is, uh, I had a mentor when I was at that first tech company I worked at where I was the first marketing hire. We were like 12 people and really had, you know, was very early, was learning everything along the way. And I remember going through with her, she was a CMO, and I remember going through with her the things that I was working on and just being like, am I even on the right track here?

Like, I didn't feel very confident in what I was executing on because I just didn't have the depth of experience to make sure that it was right. And I remember presenting it all to her, and she asked a bunch of questions and she was like, oh, she's like, you're doing all the right things. And that just gave me so much confidence at the time, that was exactly what I needed to hear from her as a, an incredibly successful CMO, um, to just be able to like, move forward with confidence and continue to build from there.

Um, and I actually reconnected with her recently, and I hadn't talked to her in many years. And it, that was so special to get to, to talk to her again, because I think, yeah, just having, sometimes it's not even the tactical advice that someone can give, it's just the, you know, the confidence that you are on the right track, and that helps you continue to think creatively and be able to keep building. Um, because I think if you're in a, a nervous mindset, it's hard to, to think big and it's hard to be creative.

And so just getting some encouragement from outside the company, from someone who's unbiased, um, who's just there to help you. Incredibly impactful. Have you ever thought about writing a book?

I have actually. When I was like, maybe 12, I wrote a book, which I have no idea where it is. It was like a fiction book.

I don't even know what it was about. I'm pretty sure my grandfather has it and he still asks me all the time, um, if I'm ever gonna publish it. But I, I would, I really like to write a book one day.

It is on, it is on my, my vision list, but, um, I'm not actively working on anything, but I just feel I have a lot to say. I think you have the title of author in your future. Absolutely.

Yeah. Thank you. I believe you have probably a lot to teach us about marketing and diversity and listening and building community that so many of us could learn from Absolutely.

Beyond just business, beyond just business. I'm talking just culturally, you know? Mm-hmm.

Um, every, every single one of us need to understand right now, especially in the US how to reach out to community because we're, we're not a community anymore. We're, you know, so divided. Yeah.

Um, and we sometimes when I hear people talk to each other, it's so vile. Yeah, right. We have forgotten to just try to see the other person's side.

I don't wanna look at the other person's side. I admit I am part of the problem. I'm trying so hard.

Um, but yeah. Um, listening and learning, uh, I think, I think it'd be your, I think your insights would be, make, make a great book. Thank you.

Yeah. But no, I agree with you. I think people, I think people, especially online can be just the, the tone and the, the, you know, aggression sometimes just surprises me.

I think people show up differently online than they would in person too, and it's easier to really poke at someone, you know, from behind your, your screen. And yeah, it's challenging. It's challenging to be visible today because there's always gonna be someone out there who's, you know, happy to, to point out the flaws or tear you down.

And I think that's really challenging for, for a lot of people. And I hope that, you know, something changes in the way that we connect with each other to, to make it, you know, help people build each other up. But that's why I think community is so powerful, because there's actually so many people out there that are willing to help you.

And I heard from, you know, if someone told me this once, they were like, it's actually like a gift to that. Someone can, you know, people feel good when they're able to help in a way that is meaningful to them. And so if you're able in the right, you know, context to ask someone for help, like, don't always see it as like, ah, this whole burden I'm having to ask someone to mentor me, or I'm having to ask someone for advice on this challenge because it's actually, you know, a gift to that person.

Because for a lot of people, it makes them feel really good to be able to help. And just hearing that made it easier for me to build my own community and ask for help, because it's a hard thing to do when you, you know, you're asking someone for something. But, uh, it can create amazing connection and, and really help that person feel good as well.

You think women have a harder time to ask for help? Oh, a hundred percent. Definitely.

I do too. I do too. I always, I think that, I think we feel like we're supposed to do it all, and I have to let go of that and ask for help.

And sometimes I don't ask for help soon enough. Yeah. And I'm the exact same way.

Actually. My, my personal theme for the year this year is leverage, which is not doing everything myself essentially really leaning into for my own team that I'm running right now, how can I empower them to be, you know, future CMOs and future leaders And, um, and instead of focusing on, you know, the task at hand, how can I play this longer game where I'm building them into, uh, yeah. Future leaders that is only gonna make the whole team better, right.

Or, uh, or even in, in my personal life. Like, there's things I just don't have to do either I can outsource them or I can ask someone for help with them that a lot of times I just tend not to. And so that's, that's a big theme for me this year too.

And definitely very much still a work in progress. Wow. You know, We're running outta time.

Tracy, I keep trying to stop you and you keep going. I, this is a fascinating interview. It's an amazing, Sylvia, you are really an amazing example of what women can do Absolutely.

In technology. And it's been a absolute pleasure. It has been.

Tracy, you wanna ask your question before we wrap? One last question is, do you have a book recommendation for us? It can be any kind of book.

It doesn't have to be a big on technology. I, if you have one, it can Be What's your fa your last book you read or a book you, you, you think about often? I have like 10 that are coming to mind.

I can, I read a lot, but I'll give you the last one I read, which is the first one that popped into my head when you asked the question. Um, I read Ernest Hemingway. I know this is an out there one, earnest Hemingway.

It's called a Movable Feast. And it's all about his early days in Paris and just wandering around the city doing his writing. One of the quotes that stood out to me was, he was like, there's nothing in the world like walking down a flight of stairs after you've done your work for the day.

And then he was like, then I'm free to walk around Paris. And I just loved the framing of that, where it's like, you know, and it's not just about doing, showing up and doing your work. It's like when you've done the thing that day that really mattered, and then you get to walk out your office or walk down the stairs and it's like, then you're free because you've done the thing that really mattered.

It's almost like an unburdening. So very random book recommendation. But I, I like to, uh, go off the beaten path of it.

I'm gonna check it out. That's great. I'm sure it's amazing, especially if he's getting to walk around Paris, one of my favorite cities in the whole world.

Ditto. It's beautiful. It'll like transport you there.

I love Paris. Well, thank you both for, uh, this amazing conversation, Sylvia. Um, I'm so grateful for you and, uh, Nina, she's lurking in the background.

I always have to thank those folks who find us because, um, they bring us these amazing guests for, for our, uh, podcast webcast here. So thank you for that. And, um, everybody, just thanks for tuning into another episode of Techstrong Women.

Uh, we look forward to having you back in the future and keep watching Text Strong TV today. There's lots more stuff for you to watch. Thanks again for being here.

We'll see you next time.