Embracing Your Superpower – Tricia Montalvo Timm – Tech.Strong.Women. EP 20

Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Techstrong Women, where we feature amazing women doing amazing things in tech. I'm Jodi Ashley, executive producer here at Techstrong, and I'm here with my co-host Tracy Ragan, creator, and c e o of Deploy Hub.

And, you know, in her free time, she's busy working on all sorts of projects with the Linux Foundation, along with her horses who aren't her favorite thing in the world. I had to plug that I love your horse stories. Before I introduce today's guests, I wanna give you a quick update about what's happening here at Textron.

ai, so be sure to head over and check that out. AI is such a hot topic right now, and we've got a lot of great content stories and interviews that you'll wanna check out there. Um, we have some great events coming up.

AppSec Con 2023 virtual is June 28th through the 29th and cloud native. Now virtual is July 11th, sorry. com and be sure to tune in every day to Techstrong TV for great shows and interviews.

Okay, Tracy, what's on your mind today? Well, this is gonna be a, a, a shameless, uh, plug for something the Orillia Project, um, was able to achieve over the course of the last few months. Um, we've been quietly working on an, uh, bringing on a part of, um, an open source project that, uh, red Hat started around what they call a Universal object reference.

So just be, just be checking out just for a minute. If you think about in our DevOps pipeline, what we generally do is we have a, a repository or someplace to store objects. Um, most of those objects that we talk about are containers and everything else kind of gets left somewhere else.

So a team at Red Hat started thinking, you know, we love our, our OCI registry, but could we extend it out to any kind of data, um, element, uh, a file, a database, update, any object that is actually deployed, so we have a central place to store it. Well, they were working on this, and then they saw Orillia and said, okay, Orillia is grabbing all this awesome metadata about objects, and we have the backend store. We should pull these two projects together.

So Orillia welcomed the, um, porous project, uh, to, uh, the, um, C D F underneath the Orillia umbrella. It's a sub-project. Uh, we're super excited about it.

We're super excited about Red Hat, thinking about extending this idea of registry beyond just a container. So we're, we're super happy. Nice.

I know that's a, that's been a pet project. You're really excited about it, so thanks for sharing that. All right, well, let's not wait anymore.

I would like to introduce you all to today's guest, Tricia Montalvo Timm. Tim Tricia is a leader, speaker, and author of a great new book called Embrace the Power of You Owning Your Identity at Work. Hi, Tricia, thanks for being with us today.

Hi, Jody. Hi, Tracy. I'm so excited for this conversation.

Thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit about you and what you're up to and what, what's important to you right now. Yeah, let's see.

So I'll start with a little bit about my background professionally. Um, I've been working in Silicon Valley 25 years, uh, with from small startup companies to large public companies and everything in between. I'm a corporate lawyer, uh, and my latest, my latest operational role was general counsel and executive sponsor of Diversity Equity inclusion at Looker Data Analytics, uh, which we sold to Google in 2020.

Um, I currently serve on the board of directors of a company called Salsify, that's a e-commerce, uh, platform company. And, uh, I serve on a couple nonprofit boards. I'm also an angel investor, um, particularly investing in female en entrepreneurs and women of color.

And then I wrote this book over the last couple of years, been writing this book, which I just, uh, published in March, 2023. So, lots, a lot's going on. I I obviously can see that I don't, uh, you know, I don't like to sit still.

Um, but a little bit on my personal side as I think it adds context to kinda why I wrote the book. Um, I am a first generation Latina. My mother is from El Salvador, and my father is from Ecuador.

Uh, and I was born in Los Angeles, and Spanish was my first language. Um, and my, you know, my upbringing and my family, uh, the very, a typical immigrant story, um, they wanted the American dream for us. And early in my childhood, they decided, um, to move us out of Los Angeles, the city, into the accompanying suburb.

And so, uh, because they wanted us to have access to a better education. And so all of a sudden I was found myself as the only Latina in a predominantly white community. And, you know, my parents had strong, thick Spanish accents.

They were discriminated against, and they didn't want me to suffer from the same things that they, uh, had suffered from. So they encouraged me to blend in, assimilate, you know, don't tell people where I'm from. They thought, you know, I, my English was good, I could pass as white.

Um, and so I learned at a really early age to blend in, uh, and assimilate. And in some ways that, uh, helped, I definitely helped in climbing the corporate ladder, but in many ways, um, you know, hiding who you are and, and not bringing your whole self and identity into the workplace takes its toll. And so the book is a lot about my personal journey, uh, which took decades, uh, frankly, to sort of unpack, uh, as well as stories from others, uh, who similarly find themselves in struggling with bringing their whole self to work.

Boy, that is a, um, that, that's a very interesting story. I was also, I was raised outside of Valley. I was raised in San Bernardino.

Ok. I was in Woodland Hills, San Fernando Valley. I was a valley girl.

Yes. She was a valley girl. And actually my neighborhood, I was raised in Bloomington and my high, my, my high school was about 70, 70% Latino.

So, uh, you know, my parents were like, no, you need to learn Spanish and go hang out with all those Mexicans, because that's how you're gonna learn a second language. Yeah, Yeah. You know, it's interesting.

We all have, we all come from different lived experiences, so you might have felt, you know, different for being white in a predominantly Oh, totally Spanish Yeah. Community. I Always wearing black hair, and I, you know, I'm so wide eye glow.

It's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah.

But no, and you know, recently I, this was another funny story about kind of coming out, you know, I'm sitting with us, some friends around a table, and somehow, uh, you know, kind of lineage and where people come from, uh, came up and I mentioned that I, my mother was Jewish, and I've known people for like 15 years, and they, it, they, it almost felt awkward for them to know. They're like, you're Jewish. I was like, well, my father was Irish, but my mother has a Jewish background.

I said, if you saw a picture of the family, I look like some crazy tall Amazon woman next to my small Jewish sister, or my smaller Jewish mother. Yeah. So, you know, nobody in, you know, we are a kind of a melting pot society, right?

Mm-hmm. And the more that we are a melting pot society, the better off we are, truly. Yeah.

Um, and I, I feel like, you know, we're going in an opposite direction, so I think books like yours are so important right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So important. Uh, and I think the tech community in particular is really focusing on that diversity. Mm-hmm.

Um, I recently posted something on a topic about, you know, diversity is includes also age. Absolutely. So, can we get you the old thing?

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And it's interesting, you know, um, you talk about the, um, not really, you know, mentioning your Jewish background in the past.

And, you know, a lot of my book I talk about, I have these self-reflection moments where I ask the question, think about your life and your lived experience. Is there something you haven't shared? And why?

And why is that? Um, because, you know, oftentimes we just conform to whatever the dominant situation is or around us. I mean, we don't even consciously do it or, or, or hold something back.

Um, we just unconsciously might think, well, no one really, you know, this isn't what's celebrated here. And, and, um, for example, with respect to the Jewish community, when I first, uh, started the DI program at Looker, we started cultural celebrations, and it was December, and we celebrated Hanukkah, and we had so many employees from the Jewish community say, this is the first time, um, that their organization had ever celebrated Hanukkah. It was always Christmas, Easter, but never Hanukkah, and how soon they felt.

So, you know, it's just, uh, you know, it's the sense of belonging, um, that, that I think is important. And I think that blending in is spot on. Um, you know, I, you know, my mother we're talking, you know, world War II generation.

Yeah. And I, I really do believe that there was a part of her that taught me not to talk about that part mm-hmm. Of who I was until, you know, not very long ago.

Literally just like in the last year, I brought it up to some friends, and that's how, how hidden I kept that part. Yeah. And like you said, I didn't really ever acknowledge that that was happening.

It, I just did it. It's kind of a generational trauma in some way. It is.

It is. That's the, that's the perfect term. It is a generational trauma that we're, I think, unpacking now, um, which I hope that we can do for our, you know, I have two daughters who are, you know, 20 and 17, and, um, hopefully for that generation, um, we change things a bit.

So, you know, when, uh, I just did a, um, recently I've had the opportunity to do a keynote at Open Source Summit and trying to encourage folks to, uh, get involved in open source. And I had one way to do that is to find your superpower and to donate that so that you're not trying to do something new. You're like, I know I can get this done quickly.

Let me do that. How do you, talk to us a little bit about finding that superpower, and how do you embrace that part of yourself and then brand it? Yeah, that's great.

You know, I think we all have superpowers. And often, I know one thing that I realized as I was going through my career was I was trying to be good at what things people told me I should be good at, uh, or that, or, you know, I should be, you know, I should enjoy, for example, in my field as in law, I should really enjoy commercial transaction negotiating contracts. Well, I really don't like it, you know, it's not, it's not really my superpower.

I'm much more of a transactional lawyer. I like putting, um, big deals together. And, and the sales contract was always something that was challenging for me.

So, um, I think it's just realizing when you are, um, spending a lot of time on something, is it something where you've lost track of time, you love what you're doing, um, you're not upset about doing it the next day, your curiosity around it, that is the thing that you should be pursuing, not the thing that you wake up the next morning and think, oh, I should do this again, or this. And it can be hard. Something that you love can be hard.

It doesn't have to be easy. It can be hard, but you have a curiosity and a passion, um, around it. So I think it's finding that thing that you love to do and follow that to where the path leads you.

Um, and those are kind of the subject matter things. I think there are other traits about ourselves that we have to recognize. And so for me, for example, I think one of my superpowers is resilience.

Um, I've had to overcome over and over again in my life, and I never realized that resilience is actually a superpower. That not everybody has this trait. And so when things are hard or challenging, I almost just almost embrace it.

I almost think, all right, this is hard, or people are underestimating me, or people don't think I can do this. I'm, I'm gonna prove them wrong. Um, and so that is the superpower of mine.

And so I think recognize what is the thing that you, um, have built a muscle around that you're good at and not be, you know, ashamed about, uh, amplifying it and walking and leaning into it. You know, there's so many people who need to hear that message. Uh, I, I do believe sometimes we, we can be a bit lazy, and even though we're curious, we say it may be just a little too hard.

And I think women in particular, we have that horrible imposter syndrome. Oh my gosh. And it's very specific to women.

I mean, yeah. I, I know some men who have that who, you know, when talking to 'em are like, yeah, you know, but it's mostly women. And even if we know how to do something and we know it's going to be hard, sometimes we'll step back because that imposter syndrome gets in the way.

Mm-hmm. What, you know, how do you, how do you personally push back on that? Cause I know you've experienced it.

Oh, yes. I hundred percent have experienced it. I still experienced it.

Uh, I would say at first is recognize that you have imposter syndrome. I, I, you know, I was so, um, excited when I heard the term because it didn't even, you know, appreciate that how I was feeling was something that was common. And know that you're not alone.

Um, I think oftentimes we see other people and their successes, and imagine it was a really easy road for them. So, um, I think you, you know, you talk to any strong leader and, and especially female leader, and they, they'll say they've, they've, um, you know, battled imposter syndrome. For me, the thing, you know, I have certain strategies that I do, and, and one of them is recognizing that I may be over emphasizing, uh, uh, things where that are maybe my, not my strengths I, or where I make mistakes and under emphasizing all of my achievements.

And so, really, like physically, like making a list, making a mental note, or having someone in your life that will repeat back to you, these are your achievements. You have received your college degree, your master's degree, your mba, you have led projects, you have developed intellectual property. You have 12 patents.

You know, like, whatever it may be, because you almost like forget about it. You almost, you know, you just think, well, everybody can, you know, do 12 patents. Well, no, no, not everybody can do this.

Um, and so recognizing, uh, what the facts are versus what your story might be, because oftentimes we create stories, um, around why we may not belong in the room, or why we may not have enough credentials, or why we need to have a hundred percent of the job requirements before we can raise our hand, uh, and recognize that, you know, our, our wonderful male counterparts, um, you know, don't have that same, uh, doubt or self-doubt that we may have. And it's not our fault. I would say, you know, I think culture and the industry and the systems that we're set up for women, uh, you know, we are, um, we as are not rewarded for our potential, but only for our achievements.

And so we have to continue to achieve, to be seen and rewarded and promoted. Um, and that, you know, and that's why we tend to wanna be perfect at everything we do. I, I think another thing that I know I've run into when I, when I was a single mom, um, especially, and I know there's a lot of women that are single Yeah.

Parents, and they're the, the more and more, I mean, there's statistics now that are saying women are the larger breadwinner, even in two income families. Mm-hmm. And I think there's fear.

Like I was in a miserable job, and, but I was a single mom and I was afraid to do something different, because it's scary to think about taking that leap. And I think w no matter, you know, what your marital situation is, if you're just at a college, if you're, you've been in working for years, I think fear is a big factor. And, you know, yeah.

I think we sit there and we're, we're miserable. And then finally something, you know, I'm a, I'm a very spiritual person, so to me, I think God puts a lot of stuff in front of me, and I ignore him a lot. And then finally he hits me in the head with a two by four, and I'm like, yeah, okay, okay.

I get it. I'm paying attention. It's time to do something different.

Mm-hmm. Um, everybody has their, you know, their way of, of having that evolve in their world, but I think fear is a huge, oh, obstacle for us on top of imposter syndrome. Oh, absolutely.

Go ahead. And in both of these con in this conversation, I think that we have to bring up the concept of mentors and mentorship. Mm-hmm.

Um, I am learning more and more how critical having good mentors are in your career and even in your personal life. And, and having more than one mentor is okay as well. Mm-hmm.

Um, but having a really strong front row to remind you, Trisha, as you said, all of the achievements is so important because we do forget it. We oftentimes focus forward and we don't look back and say, I did that. I can overcome the fear of that because I've done it before.

I know how to go through this. But sometimes having a really good front row where they're cheering you on and mentors who are helping you get through that boy is that so critical. And it's an area that, in particular, I think women need to be, do a better job of in one of our, um, other, uh, tech strong women, uh, uh, interviews.

We did discuss that, but afterwards, of course, right. Sometimes the best talks happen. After we stopped recording, she talked about the syndrome of Queen Bees.

Mm-hmm. And how it was sometimes hard for women to find mentorship in companies because of Queen Bees. Mm-hmm.

And really becoming a real, you know, becoming your real self in an organization sort of requires the ability to get those mentors and have those people in your front row. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Are you seeing that in the workplace for women, a difficult step to get a solid mentorship program and those people in their front row? Well, first of all, I wanna agree with you a hundred percent on the value of mentors. Um, you know, mentors, uh, is specifically mentioned in my book, I have a section called What's In Your Toolbox.

And one of the, the things I call out is the importance of mentors. And for me, a mentor, you know, because I, in my career path, uh, I never worked for a female manager, and I never worked for a company run by a female c e o. So I didn't have the ability to find female mentors, but I had amazing male mentors that were incredible.

And I remember one in particular where I had left the company and I'd gone to a new, a new, or, or I had left the company. Um, it was years later. And I had received an opportunity to be general counsel, which was my, would be my first top job.

And I called them up. I had two young kids at the time. I didn't think I'd be up for the challenge.

I didn't think I was ready. Uh, I called them up and said, look, I have this opportunity to be the general counsel. I don't think I can do it, but I'd love to get your opinion.

And his words to me were, you are absolutely ready. You must do it. And hearing from somebody that you admire from somebody who is, I mean, he, you know, he was a general counsel of Salesforce and Slack.

I mean, he's just this big guy. And it, it means the world to you as someone who has the fear or has the imposter syndrome has, you know, um, the doubts, um, to get that encouragement. And then after that encouragement, uh, he was somebody I could call to when I had, um, questions on how do I do the next thing?

Or I've never seen this thing. How do I do it? What are the three things you would do?

What are the fi you know, what are the, the, the things you do in the first 90 days in this new role? Um, just having that playbook, uh, is incredibly important as we climb the corporate ladder. So I think that the value of mentors is so important.

So right now, I really, one of the things I'm trying to encourage organizations, um, is to create formal mentor programs. Cause it's hard sometimes to organically find a mentor. I have so many women that come to me and say, how do I find my mentor?

Do I just go up to somebody and say, will you be my mentor? And, you know, it's like, that's a really hard thing to do. I think organic relate, you know, finding a mentor organically is really just nurturing a relationship over time.

Um, it's somebody that, um, you've worked for, whether it's a manager or a peer, uh, that knows your work, sees your value, sees you, uh, is your champion. That's the relationship you should spend time and invest in. Um, because that's the type of person that will be there for you when those moments of where you need advice or, or a playbook or, uh, a connection or a network.

Um, so that's how you organically find a mentor. But I really encourage companies and leaders to think about, um, you know, creating those relationships, uh, as a formal program. And because those can be real.

I still have, uh, mentees that I've worked with from formal programs like that, uh, and they're incredibly valuable. I, I agree a hundred percent. Even in the open source community, mentorship is lacking.

Mm-hmm. Um, we try to create like buddy systems where we know we have somebody who's really good and kind and teaching. And if, especially if we have women on the open source project who say they wanna learn to code, they've been project manager, we try to hook them up.

We try to, you know, because we know who they are, we say, we're gonna reach out to this person and ask if they'll help you. But it's, that's, that's almost like asking somebody to be your mentor. Right.

But a formal program, um, and I don't, I've never seen a good model for it, a formal program, but it would be great if, uh, even some, some somebody at like, organizations like the Linux Foundation, if they could build these formal mentor programs Yeah. Because it does matter, and it's hard to go for a woman. You're like, uh, who do I ask?

Do I ask this? Right. This man, this male manager, can you be my mentor?

It sounds, seems a little weird. Right, Right, right. You know, there's a, I I, I have seen a really good mentor program, and it's run by venture capital firm called First Round Capital.

And they have now opened up their mentorship program to people outside of their portfolio companies. So anybody can apply. And it's a huge network of portfolio companies, um, in high tech.

And they hook up, you know, seasoned, uh, operators with, um, mentees from across all industries across, you know, all demographics. Uh, and it is incredibly well run with lots of programming, lots of, you know, um, outlines of, and, you know, accountability responsibilities for the mentor and the mentee. Uh, it's really well run.

So I would encourage people to look out for that. And it's called First Round, First Round. It's called fir.

The name of the venture firm is First Round Capital, and the name of the program is called FastTrack. I'm gonna check it out. Thank you for that tip.

That's a great tip. Fast track at First Round Capital. I will not forget that.

Yep. So, Trish, I have a question. When I was going through the, the beginning of your book, um, I was really touched by your, the LinkedIn post and, and how that all started.

That just drew me in the idea behind what you did there. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah.

That, so the LinkedIn post was the first step, I would say, to really publicly revealing a lot about my Latina background. Um, and the journey to that step took years. I don't wanna, uh, you know, say that it was, you know, really quick, uh, journey to that moment.

And part of the reason it took years was because, one, I wasn't really recognizing that I was downplaying a lot of who I was in the workplace. It was, um, it was something I did to survive. Uh, and over by doing that for over two years, not only being a Latina, but also being a working mom really downplayed that because I, at the time I had my babies, it was a, a male dominated, um, company that did not really support working mothers.

And so I downplayed a lot of, of who I was. And so I had a lot of fear that basically coming out, I would say, uh, 20 years later, would jeopardize this incredible network I had created. Uh, I was part of the club, you know, I have a tremendous network of CEOs and board members and investors and colleagues, uh, that, uh, are good friends.

Uh, and, um, and I was really nervous about, uh, be, be because of just the backlash that we're seeing a lot right now, uh, around some of these topics. I was nervous to bring that part of my identity forward, but I was also, um, shamed, uh, for not really advocating for the Latino community who is the least represented in all spaces, especially Latinas or, you know, we are less than 2% in the C-suite, less than 1% in the boardroom. Um, and I had made it there without really advocating or being a proud Latina.

So I was ashamed that I had done that for the rest of, for the, for most of my career. So it was a very vulnerable moment where I had to get over those fears mm-hmm. And let whatever happens, happens.

Uh, but once I hit send and waited, you know, you kind of wait for the response. Um, the response was overwhelmingly positive. Uh, friends and colleagues supported me.

They have, uh, come out and, and, and talked about how they're learning things, how appreciative they are of the conversation. Um, and the Latino community has completely embraced me, and I'm doing so much work for them now, and in trying to amplify their voice. So, uh, it, it was, uh, it was a hard moment with lots of fear, but the impact that I'm having is incredibly rewarding.

It just breaks my heart that we live in a society still where we feel everybody, you know, has stuff and they feel like they have to hide that in order to function in society and mm-hmm. It's just, and it just seems to be, the more we amplify that, it's a problem. It's pulling all the crazy people out who want, who think, okay, now I can be even crazier about it.

Yeah. And more open and more obnoxious. Yeah.

So it's just such a hard balancing act Right. To yeah. To make those, um, pronouncements about yourself and, and talk about yourself and coming out is a great way, you know?

Yeah. To describe it and, and have to do that when it shouldn't, it shouldn't be that way, but hopefully, yeah. It's Gonna, it we're gonna hit this tipping point where it'll, it'll start.

I don't know when that's gonna happen, though. I don't know either. It's really hard.

And I would say one of, again, so the tools in the toolbox, um, is finding your community, uh, because these conversations and these, uh, actions, uh, are not without risk. And you have to be supported by allies, supported by people, um, that will validate what you're saying. And so finding communities, uh, where you are among people of either your liked or similar lived experience, or people that support who you are and your identity are incredibly important because you will feel alone, um, when you're challenged.

Uh, you will feel like you're crazy, um, by, you know, saying, you know, the by, by being who you are, just even being who you are, you might feel, um, like you're being too sensitive or you're, um, whatever that feeling might be, and being around people that support you and validate you is incredibly important. Well, and you even Talked, that's why I tell people, join Open source. I'm sorry.

Like, join Open Source. You're gonna find your peeps. Oh, there you go.

No, I was, I was gonna say that the idea, even within that concept of you having to decide, do I say I'm a Latina? Do I say I'm a Latinx? Do I, you know, just within the, the community as well.

Yeah. It becomes this thing. Yeah.

Um, you know, and as white women, we don't experience these things, so mm-hmm. When I can read something like this and really understand on a, on a level that I don't, um, because of my journey, like, I was one of the white kids in school that had maybe five Latino kids and maybe one African-American kid, right? Mm-hmm.

So I was on the other side of that, and mm-hmm. I, I wanna educate and learn about the stories and, and how, how other people's existence was in that same classroom that I was in. Right.

So, I love that. You, I really appreciated that. Yeah.

I love that you said that, uh, because I think that's an important piece of, of this conversation, is that the book is for those on the journey that feel like in and other, um, to help them on the other side, but it's also for leaders that wanna create inclusive environments to see what a different lived experience might be that's different from them. Mm-hmm. Um, because that gives, creates empathy.

And, uh, there was a colleague of mine that we both started at the law firm at the same time, he's a white male, um, great friend. And he read my book recently and he reached out and said, it's incredible, you know, that we both worked at the same place, had the same work experience, but we had different lived experiences in that space. Like, things were easy for me, and because things were easy for me, I thought things were easy for everyone.

It never even crossed his mind that things might be harder or different cause he just didn't live it. Right. And so, um, that conversation of recognizing that, oh, you know, maybe other people are having a different harder lived experience, it's happening.

And maybe can I have you curious and learn a little bit more about that Empathy? Man, that is the word of the day, right? That is the word of the year empathy.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, I can't even imagine what, um, you know, the trans community is going through in states like Florida, in Texas.

I, no, I mean, they're basically saying, uh, if you have a child who may be, uh, trans, that it's criminal. I know. So how do you, you know, how do you become your true self in that environment?

It's really, really hard. Cause you're being singled out, and there is no empathy around those laws whatsoever. You know, I sorry to bring up politics, but politics matter.

No, it's true. Cause it creates a culture. It does.

And we're not in an empathetic culture at the moment. Well, and no, and to what Trisha was saying, I think part of what's going on in our culture is, um, without getting into too much politics in the last eight years, in an environment to be mean and nasty and horrible has been okay. People are not stepping up and saying, this isn't acceptable.

Right. 20 years ago, we would never accepted some of these things. And the way people treat each other and the way Yeah.

People are openly doing it. And I think a lot of the fear we're hearing Trisha is because people like you we're coming forward and saying, this is my lived experience, and not me, but people I know are like, well, they're mean about it because they feel guilty and they don't Yeah. They, they don't realize it, and they don't wanna internalize it and say, wow, I didn't realize this.

And so they're just angry about it. Right. Yeah.

And I'm lucky to have two really politically active. I have a queer daughter and a son who's super politically active. So I have been really fortunate at my age to constantly be learning about, yeah.

All these things that mm-hmm. I didn't really think about a whole lot. Yeah.

I taught my kids to, again, my Christian values taught me to teach them to be good people, to treat everyone the way they wanna be treated, the basics that we should all teach regardless of whether we go to church or what religion we are, or whatever. Just those basic levels of, of human decency and kindness. And to see them go out in the world and use that and say, Hey, mom, and they call me, they'll call me on it.

Well, if I use a term wrong, I'm always learning new terms and using them wrong. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

We're Always, they love the fact that I, I'm stopping to say, you know, okay, what, how, what do I do? Mm-hmm. And, and they teach me, like when my daughter was giving me all the non-binary and all these terms that I was just getting all hung up on, and I said, so what do I do if I, I come across a person?

How do I start a conversation? And she said, just ask them what their pronouns are. Yeah.

That's, and I'm like, it's that easy. She goes, cause then they know you're an ally and you're trying Totally. You may not know you're, you may not say things wrong, but you've set the stage that you're open to the conversation and you wanna learn.

And I think across our culture, that's the values that need to be taught to our kids. And then, like Tracy said, you get these states like Florida and Texas and, and even Tennessee, you know mm-hmm. They're all like, no, we're not gonna talk about this stuff.

Yeah. We're not gonna let our kids learn about it. I, I just don't understand why you wouldn't wanna teach your kids to love everybody.

I know. Yeah. I don't know how that's rolling up after the workplace in those states.

Do you have any idea on that, Trisha? Well, you know, I think, uh, companies, uh, are facing this issue. I mean, we saw Disney in Florida, you know, taking a stance, and they're getting really attacked, um, by DeSantis over there.

Uh, and I think, you know, a lot of, um, of the larger companies are rolling out programs to support all their employees across the country. Uh, I mean, also women's reproductive rights also are being challenged in a lot of states. And so, you know, I know that a lot of companies are looking at their benefits programs to provide, um, safe avenues for, for women to have choice available to them.

So, yeah. You know, I think, you know what you said, Jodi, around kindness. I mean, it's the end of the day if people could just be kind and let people be who they are and be seen for who they are, that's really all that people want.

Uh, and, and it's all, in my opinion, fear-based. And that's why I'm really, uh, try to advocate storytelling, because I think that we create these false images of what people might be, or what their lived experience might be, um, without really knowing who they are as people. But if we see them, we get to know them, we hear their stories, we'll recognize that their people who love and play and, you know, eat and do all the things right.

That we all do. Um, and so why are we so fearful of, of their life and, and the choices they make? So, um, I, uh, one quick story around the trans issue.

My niece is trans and she came out, uh, or transitioned between going to high school and college. And my, you know, my mother's generational, you know, in her eighties. And it was hard for her.

The pronouns were hard. She didn't understand this. It was very different.

She'd never heard of this. Um, but there was a period of time and she had a lot of fear around it, fear for her, fear for everything. Um, but, but there's, there was a period of time where, uh, my niece had to go live with her before she started college.

So she lived with her for about two months and just getting to know her for two months and realizing that she is just who she is and she loves to run. And she, you know, loves to story tell, and she loves all of these things. Made her, made her come around and realize that this is the niece that she always knew and loved.

And so I think it's just that, like, how do we get people to, um, you know, break down these barriers, break down these fears, because, um, I think that's really the thing that's holding us back. Well, and I bet you learned a ton too, right? From your grandmother Yeah.

About her. Yeah. Where she comes from and how she understands it, and why she had fear and why she Yeah.

Was hesitant. It's, it's a such a two-way street. Mm-hmm.

Alright. Tracy, what were you gonna say? I Was just saying being our being our authentic self, everybody being their authentic self is part of the solution.

Mm-hmm. And every single one of us have something to hide. We all have something.

Yeah. We all do. We don't want to, to talk about.

And it's, it's, it's fearful and you just have to have empathy for those who have bigger barriers and bigger, you know, bigger monsters that they're trying to hide. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you know, and the, the workplace has gotta be able to not look at that aspect of the person, but look at what they can contribute.

Yeah. And focus on what they can contribute, what their superpower is, what their skills are, and if that organization needs those skills. And that person is an awesome contributor.

I don't care if they're training or they're, you know, up there, um, you know, they like to sit in a corner. They may be, uh, you know, they may be autistic even. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. You know, people with autism have incredible powers. They should be put to work.

And we, we really struggle with getting over some basic things to look at what their superpower is, as I said before. And we need to focus on that. Mm-hmm.

No, absolutely. It's, uh, everything said I'm wasting, or not wasting, I shouldn't say that. Um, not talking about some stuff that, other stuff that you're working on.

Yeah. You do all this stuff. I wa I, you know, you, you pique my interest about your, um, your, your, your legal work.

Yes. Tell us a little bit about the, your favorite things about what you do in, in law. I have loved my career, Tracy.

I was so blessed to be able to work with high tech companies. I love working with entrepreneurs and founders, uh, particularly because their personality type. Uh, they are risk takers, they're curious, they're, uh, always learning, you know, trying to solve new problems.

Um, I just love being around, um, that, that group of people, uh, so for choosing this profession and this field has been fascinating. And people have often asked, do you get bored? Is it bored being a lawyer?

Is it, you know, um, the routine. And, you know, I, I always said working in tech and law, um, you are never bored. Technology is always ahead of the law.

And for most of my career, my, you know, my clients, uh, whether they were the, you know, C C M O C P O, uh, whoever they are, uh, always came to me with a problem that had not yet been defined by the law. So we had to figure out how are we going to venture into this new space that is unchartered? How are we gonna do it while mitigating risk, but yet moving the company forward.

Uh, it's been phenomenal. I've worked with some incredible people, uh, and I've just, I've loved my career. It's been so much fun.

And tell me a little bit about the patent process. Cause you kinda expose that. Yeah, yeah.

Uh, what organization, who should go for a patent? What, what's su what is successful, especially in technology? Yeah.

You know, we've had this debate, uh, before in open makes software now in Deploy hub. Do you go out and get a patent? Is it worth it?

What should be patented and what should not? Yeah. Yeah.

That's a great question. So I did work for an open source company, sugar crm. So I, I am familiar with the open source community, which I love.

Mm-hmm. And, um, and I remember having so many debates with, um, with our product folks because, uh, you know, patents are almost the opposite, right? Of what the open source community is trying to do, which is creating an open space for everyone to, to continue to innovate without having restrictions on the technology.

So what I would say, um, why I think patents are important for technology companies is more from a defensive perspective and not an offensive perspective. Um, unfortunately, there are people out there that will, um, you know, uh, may come after you, uh, and sue you for breaching their patents. And by having a defensive patent portfolio, you can be in a stronger negotiating position against them when you're trying to negotiate a cross license or whatnot.

If you're completely exposed with no patents, then you might have to incur, um, or it might even take your company under and not being able to really battle it, uh, against that. So from my perspective, I, you know, I advise companies to create a patent portfolio more so for that rainy day when something came after you that you have some patents to be able to protect your technology, uh, against things. Uh, but, you know, I think, you know, what I did learn from the open source community and when I learned, worked with an open source company was that while, you know, the patents are there to protect your technology, oftentimes the companies are coming to you as customers for more than just the technology.

It's everything that's built around it. It's the customer service, it's the, uh, branding, it's the network. It's the platform.

So, um, it's, so, I, I lost the fear I would say I had as lawyers, oftentimes they get, you know, fearful like patent and everything because you know, you're not gonna lose your business. And it's like, no, you know, the business isn't just the ip, it is actually everything that's built around the ip. So I personally don't fear not having the patents in the sense of building your business, but it's more, um, in the sense of having something to protect your business.

And how long does it take to get a patent from filing to, Oh my gosh, that's a great question. It could take years. Uh, it depends.

And I was fortunate in finding a boutique patent firm that really minimized the sort of amount of work that had to go into a patent. Oftentimes engineers, um, really don't like going through the patent process cause there's so much back and forth and work around creating the patents. And it's, you know, on, on their off time.

You know, while they're trying to do their work, they have to, you know, work on patent applications. So I really tried to fo minimize the amount of, um, work that our engineers had to do, and also create patent incentive programs to incentivize them, you know, with cash or equity so that they're actually, uh, getting rewarded for the amount of work that they're putting in into a patent that is really benefiting the company. I'm waiting for some, um, better AI around patents.

You know, there's a, there was a company here in Santa Fe called Open Eye, and what they did was they, um, searched all the patents on, um, chemistry structures, aspirin, for example. Yeah. And it used to take like six, seven months to find out if what you're creating is going to infringe on somebody else's patent.

And they would download all this, these images, and they would pattern match across it, and you could get an answer in three minutes. Oh, I can imagine. I'm sure this is gonna re Yeah, AI's gonna Revolutionize.

Yeah. We should be able to do that, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, one of the fields that I hear AI is going to really kind of, you know, uh, revolutionize is law. Uh, cause a, a lot of the time, a lot of the time spent with researching and analyzing might be just like what you said on the patents is like, you know, you having to do prior history search, you know, all of that can now be, you know, automated.

So it'll be, it'll be interesting. It's also gonna have an impact on law. And how many people start suing each other?

Oh God, I hope not. I hate litigation. It's just, I just don't, I mean, we had a whole dialogue on our Slack channel, um, about what's going on in Hollywood.

Um, one of our folks, husband is a director and writer, and all these rules that are coming down that they, you know, they are impacting how their jobs are gonna be able to be done because they wanna just do everything with ai. So it's been a big conversation. Obviously, we, we launched a new site here because it's such a big conversation.

So, um, yeah, I think it's going keep people busy for a bit. Well be, but like I said, technology's ahead of the law. Here we go.

Another example. Absolutely. Well, Trisha, we are like out of time.

We've, we uh, we blew through that pretty quickly. Um, we are so happy that you were able to join us today and, uh, have this amazing conversation. It's really important.

And um, it's just, uh, great to hear about all this stuff you're doing. We didn't get to Angel investing. Tracy, I know that's one of your favorite topics, so, uh, maybe we'll have to have her back and have some more conversations here soon.

Yeah. But we really appreciate having you. Um, everybody go out and check out her new book, embrace the Power of You.

You can see it right behind her, um, owning your own Identity at work, cuz it's a great read. Um, I haven't gotten to read at all, but I'm gonna, so thanks For thank, thanks For being with us. Thank You, Trisha.

It was a pleasure. Um, thanks, thanks for having me. All right, everybody, keep watching Text on tv.

There's some great interviews coming up and some other shows that you wanna watch. Thanks for being with us today. Have a great day.