Engaging the Next Generation in Cybersecurity with Caitlin Sarian | RSAC Conference 2025

It is Tech on tv. It's Getaway Day here at RSAC, Lisa Martin here. Having had some amazing conversations with cybersecurity leaders across industries the last four days.

But you know, because you've been tuning in to Text on TV and all of our other digital platforms. My next guest is a veteran of Text on tv. My first time interviewing her, I'm a huge fan.

Caitlyn Sien joins us. She is at Cybersecurity Girl. 6 million followers across social media.

You should be, Caitlyn, it's a pleasure to have you on the program. I'm so happy to be here. Talk to me a little bit about, you have a mass in a short time period.

6 million followers. I'm one of them. TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram, X.

How did you do that in such a short time period? I, I don't, I don't know. Um, so I started on TikTok originally and I really was, uh, embarrassed.

'cause I've been in cyber for 12 years now, and I'm like, if anyone finds out that I'm on TikTok, I'm gonna be destroyed in, in, in the office. And, but I really wanted to reach the next generation. That was like the main reason.

I was like, I want people to understand like everyone it like is needed in cybersecurity. And cybersecurity is not something scary. And they can get in and it can be fun.

And we also need more women. I wanted women to see themselves. Yes.

Because when I was first introduced to cyber, my immediate gut instinct was absolutely no way I'm ever gonna be a part of this. Yeah. I was like, I'm not a man.

Yeah. That's, that's the number one reason I'm not a man. And I was like, I didn't see myself there.

Like, I just was like, that's, I'm not a coder. Like I don't, that's not where I'm supposed to be. Yeah.

And that was like the main reasons why I started. And then I started doing more education on just the general public on like what cybersecurity is and honestly how simple it can be and how it's not scary. It does not need to be scary, but it needs to be, like, the conversation needs to be had at home.

And I always say cybersecurity starts at home and it's not a scary thing. It's a, it's a necessity. It's a total necessity.

Um, and so that's kind of how it started. And I, again, I only started on TikTok four years ago and it wasn't until the last two years I put started doing it on Instagram. And the reason why I was called Cybersecurity Girl is 'cause I didn't want my name on it.

So I didn't have my name affiliated with it at all for the first like year and a half, two years. Okay. No one I worked with knew that I was doing it on the side.

And then it wasn't until I got hired by TikTok and then I'm like, oh, now I can actually say it. 'cause they, they found me from my TikTok. They found you.

Yeah. So it's just been incredible. I mean, it really shows how important cybersecurity is now and a hundred percent how people really wanna know.

And the reason why I'm a little bit different is 'cause I, I like Shortform. Like I don't do long form YouTube. I don't even really do XI, it's really just been like TikTok and Instagram and Shortform is for me is so important because people don't have the attention span.

And honestly, even if they did, the general public does not wanna hear an hour long conversation about cybersecurity. No. So what do they need to know?

Like how is it impacting them and how can they fix it? Yes. So like relatable, digestible, understandable content.

And that's what I love to do. That's exactly what's needed. I'm a marketer by training.

I've been doing marketing and tech for 20 years. Media for, for about 10. But people want to be educated in the simplest, cleanest way.

Yeah. And you just hit the nail on the head, digestible, clean. How does it affect me?

Right. You know, one thing too that we're dealing with now is I was mentioning my mom's almost 80 and she's digital. Yeah.

She's a facebooker. She's now an Instagrammer. I introduced him to chat GPT the other day.

I know. I was so proud Of her. I'm wait, throw my boyfriend under the bus, but he is, he still does not know anything about chatt.

I'm like, I don't know if I can be in a relationship with you anymore. You gotta educate him, girl. I I, I'm Trying, I'm trying.

We're working on it. But we've got like five or six generations in the workforce today that are digitally active. Yep.

And some of those populations are way more susceptible than others. Yeah. So I learned a lot from you in the things that you post.

'cause you make it clean, you make it simple. You maybe go, oh, I didn't think about that. And so I teach my mom a lot of the things that I learned from you because I want her to just be, you have to, you can't just blindly trust everything anymore.

Right. We've learned that time. And again, ransomware is a household word.

A ransomware attack happens. I i the status from a couple years ago, once every 11 seconds. Right.

I'm sure that time is going down now. Right. It's only gonna continue.

But to your point, the education has to be there consistently. Right. Well, and there's two, two points I wanna hit on that.

So the first is, we also always think about our like, you know, older population of like, oh, they're susceptible. But the issue actually is the younger generation. So the older population gets hit with like larger ransomware issues.

Like they have the, the most money, but actually the most people that are getting hacked are the younger generation. Is that right? Because they're so blindly accepting of the technology that they don't think anything of it.

They're not like, meant to be skeptical of it. Yeah. Because that's what they grew up with.

And so it's real. That's, and that was why I was like, let's reach the next generation. 'cause all these people, I mean Yeah.

They're not gonna have monetary value 'cause they can't really exploit kids point. Yeah. There is sextortion, which is a whole nother issue.

And it's like, it's awful. And we're trying to mitigate that too. But a lot of these kids are actually dealing with similar issues as the elderly, but the elderly have way more to lose.

It's Right. It's the financial it Hit. And then the other part is like, similar to what you said, like cybersecurity is a human issue.

Like phishing and like, like reusing passwords. Like again, the Verizon DBIR report just came out. I went on, I went to their session yesterday and they were saying 60% of all these, um, threats and, uh, vulnerabilities are human centered issues.

So whether you reusing passwords Yep. Or access management stuff, like, and or clicking on a link. It's all like human at the end of the day.

And so that's like what I'm trying to get at. I'm like, I feel like I'm protecting the companies at at this point Yeah. Too.

Because it, the learning has to happen at home. Like, when was the last, last time you learned like, what, what did you learn? Like last, obviously you do this so you learn a lot, but like Yeah.

When you're at home, like how do you learn, Uh, social media? Yep. So that thing like news, everyone is losing on social learning on social media, but I Through it with a grain of salt.

Oh yeah. You have to. Yep.

And but, but with deep fakes and the advancement and the sophistication of like phishing, smishing, vishing, it's getting harder and harder to detect. Yes. But I like your tagline that cybersecurity starts at home.

It has to It Has to. It's not a nice to have anymore. This is how it needs to be like a fabric of our lives.

Yep. And we were just talking, I don't know who it was with, but like, someone was like, yes. Oh, I know the founder of the hacking games that we were talking about how cybersecurity marketing has been such, it's been terrible.

I was gonna say a bad word. I'm not gonna say a bad word, but it's been terrible. Like we've been, we've been marketing cyber all wrong, even like companies.

Right. Like cybersecurity is not something scary. It's not like we just need to mar like market it to like, and bring it to the people where they're at.

Yeah. And they're like, you know, online just general human beings Right. That are like, I mean, we connected on Instagram.

Yeah. It wasn't because I like met you through, you know, some Right. Yes.

Forum. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, so, so it's starting at home. But also another thing too is just the, the commonality of it. And we have to expect Yeah.

It's there. Yep. With there's more data, there's more software, there's more apps.

That trajectory is just going up and to the right. And it's not gonna slow down. Nobody wants less apps or less data slower.

They just don't, We do want less op, uh, less like signing in for accounts. Yes. Can we stop that?

Like, why I'm a fan, the fingerprint, I'm like, it's me. Yeah. Yeah.

Hi. I'm the problem. It's me.

Yeah. But, um, it's just such an interesting Love the Taylor Swift coat, by The way. I'm a swifty.

Yeah. This is why we kinda have nice things. Yeah.

We can throw you another one. Um, but I, I just, I think that it's so important to educate folks and it has to be consistent and, and when we're here at shows like RSAC, we get to see so much of the technology that enables that fabric. Yeah.

And now that we're in the AI era, which I love, how do we secure Yes, me too. Yeah. There's so much potential.

Yeah. But there's a lot of fear. And so what I like to do is, let's pull out, and I think you're similarly minded, let's pull up all the positives that are there.

Like we talked a lot this week about how does software company X, YZ help customers, whether it's financial services or healthcare or automotive, become proactive Right. Against the attackers. Right.

Because technology is neutral. Good uses, bad uses, it's like fighting fire with fire. But it's, there's never a dull moment.

And we need more people like you to educate the different user generations and groups of where the risks are. 'cause they're not going away. No.

No. And I, I also like, love the, I love ai. I think it's the coolest thing ever.

I'm like, anyone that like doesn't use ai. I'm like very skeptical around me too with my, including my boyfriend. I'm like mm-hmm.

Um, but I think there's also a conversation that needs to be had around like, 'cause people keep saying like, ethical ai, ethical ai. I am like ethical is like moral based. Like everyone has different definitions of ethical.

Yes. So I guess it's like, how do we build AI and like, like what standard like baseline standards do we need to have to say this is good versus this is bad. Right.

Right. Because we are even talking about that on like hackers. Right.

Like, we're talking about how kids are, we're trying to get kids into ethical hacking versus like, you know, a lot of times kids get like pulled into the wrong thing when they're doing hacking. But we're like, okay, at that point, what's ethical hacking? Like where is a line?

Like can you scam a scammer? Yes. Yes.

Like, is that ethical? Yeah. Because you're still scamming.

Right. But like, so it's the same with ai. Like how are we drawing that line of like what's right and what's wrong and what, what AI should be doing and what AI I shouldn't.

And That's so nebulous right now. Yeah. 0 and this Japanese animation studio.

Have you seen those Japanese animations that are like flooding social media? And so I have a very like, narrow lane with social media. 'cause all I see is like tech stuff.

Good for you because it's, it's for work. But anyways, I did not see it. But It's, so the whole copyright infringement Okay.

Challenge is there and it's like, well, AI and, and you know, chat, DPT anthropic, all of them are te are training their models on all of this information that probably they have without permission. Right. But how else do the models learn?

So there are fine lines, but I think the challenge is it's so nebulous. There are many fine lines. Yeah.

So to your point on ethical hacking, where, where are those lines? Yeah. It's not a, it's not a straight answer.

Right. But you also talked about people, and I always say, I had this friend, my other show who created stickers and needs to have stickers on his laptop. And one of them said humans Yeah.

Ruining everything since forever. Right. And I loved it.

But in cybersecurity, humans are, I think two things. The weakest link, but also the biggest potential asset. Yeah.

Do you Agree with That? Oh, for sure. Yeah.

And I always used to say like, you're only as strong as your weakest link. Yes. With every company.

I'm like, I don't care what what you do, but if you, if someone's clicking a phishing link, it doesn't matter any of the software they anything that you deploy. Right. So I, I don't, I always don't understand like why companies don't spend more money on training and awareness.

Granted, I think there's a lot of, uh, training awareness companies that need improving. Agree. Um, I, I go to a lot of training awareness conferences and stuff and I'm like, Hey, can we not do another fishing email?

You see opportunities. I know, I know. Yes.

Um, there's so many other ways to do it, but, um, yeah, I think there's so many opportunities because again, you're only as strong as rub weakest link. Why aren't you spending more money on trying to like, again, educate the people where they're at? Like, why do we keep shoving training and awareness into, into corporate, you know, employees faces?

Oh yeah. Around, Hey, you need to protect corporate. Why do they care?

Yeah. Why would, why would I care? Yes.

Who cares? I mean, yeah. It's, it might, you might lose your job, but like no one, you have to get to them.

Like actually, like the impact, the impact that it matters is like, okay, how to protect your family. 'cause they guarantee you, once they start learning how to protect themselves, they're gonna start learning. They're gonna automatically protect the company.

Which is good. Right. That's The right pathway.

Right. But we're not even teaching 'em like that. No.

Because it's a check the box and then there's like some fun awareness stuff. But it's like, meh. So how do you, how do you advise companies to change that?

Make it more fun. But to your point, go where they are. Go to their comfort zone.

'cause people don't wanna get comfortably uncomfortable. Right. It's hard.

Oh, very. It's cultural. Yeah.

It's behavioral. Well, that's how it, that's how I always recommend. I'm like, okay, what, what is, what is your company culture?

And if you were them, like I always, whenever I talk about training awareness professionals and people like are wanting to get into cyber, I'm like, you should start with training awareness. Yeah. Because those is, you are the, the prime demographic people that have no idea what cybersecurity is.

Yeah. And you're trying to get in and you're trying to understand, but like get understand the culture. Yes.

Get someone in that's not, that does not care about cyber, does not understand cyber and start picking their brain and asking 'em, like figuring out how, like how you can relate to them. Yeah. Um, because that's where you're gonna have to meet them.

Yeah. And then to just assume that most people fall in the middle, but like, you can't, as, you can't like do a check the box training. You can't.

No, because I, when I worked at TikTok and I was trying to redo their internal training too, like I had to get so much oversight from like legal and like GRC. I'm like, this training is not gonna do anything. Like, you brought me in to like, you know, spice things up with training and make it more fun and do short form videos and, and I'm like, and I can't do any of that with like, the way that you're redoing my entire like, script.

And That's kind of anti TikTok mindset. It was, it was kind of weird. It was kind of weird.

Yeah. I love TikTok though. But it's, yeah.

What, what has surprised you in the last few years of being cybersecurity girl and, and amassing this following who are learning so much from you? What enlightens you about the direction that career paths are going? What's out there?

That's good. I mean, there's so many things that are out there that are good. And s honestly, so many cybersecurity people are good.

Like, there's so many of us because we got in, like, we were pulled in from other people that we wanna help and mentor and like help other people. What's um, incredible is like how many people are wanting to get in. That's good.

That, and I don't wanna be a negative, but like now we're at this point where I get so many people messaging me being like, Hey, I've gotten this certificate, this certificate, this certificate. And I can't get an entry level job anywhere, really. So whatever they're saying about entry level roles is a load of bs.

Okay. Because, so I think a lot of entry level roles are actually mid-level roles that are trying to be paid as entry level. And a lot of companies don't actually wanna train the people on site anymore, which is really sad.

'cause that's how all of us learned. Yeah. I mean, all of us got into cyber.

We were brought in by a mentor trained on, on site. Right. I'm sure, I mean, I'm blanket statement again, I'm sure there's a few companies out there that, but like a lot of the companies I've seen, they have like entry level, well mid-level roles classified as entry level and they want people with actual like more skills.

And there's so many people, like I get like at least tens to hundreds of people a day messaging me being like, how do I get in? Yeah. I don't know what to do and there's not really a direction yet.

So I'm really excited 'cause there's so many people that are interested in Yeah, that's good. Now we have to figure out as a even like a country or like a the world honestly. Yeah.

How we're gonna navigate this because also the, the definitions of cybersecurity are different in every company, right? Yeah. Like everyone has different teams.

Like some has access management and they, they, they're, maybe they're doing the same thing. They're called something different. So like I was trying to work with NIST and say, Hey, is there a way that we can have like 10 of the same exact entry level roles exactly the same or exactly like equal with the what you need.

Like, so, okay, hey, we have a SOC analyst that needs these like qualifications. Then we have like a threat intelligence person. So I want the same titles Yeah.

With like clear expectations of what they need to get. And that way, like when people are hiring entry level, at least make, make the fortune 100 all do the same when they're hiring. Yes.

It'd be a lot easier to transition people in. It would, and then you can train them then on their company culture. You pick them on their com your company culture who Fits best, right?

Yeah. So that consistency is, is critical. It's no longer, um, a nice to have that the, the awareness has to be consistent.

Right. I, but like I said, marketing 20 years in tech awareness is key, but it can't be a one and done thing. Right.

And it has to be tailored to your audience. Right. Right.

And there are so many different audiences alive and you know, in, in the digital space today, I went to the restroom earlier and I saw a payphone. I'm like, there's still payphones around here. Yeah.

I remember having to use a payphone in high school. But I have a question for you. Yes.

What's like one thing that you would change with either like awareness or marketing in like cyberspace that you like, wish it was like already fixed? I think that it needs to be, to your point, it needs to be explained in a way that this is achievable. Right.

And it's not scary. It's not scary. It's a massive opportunity.

It's only growing. Mm-hmm. So the opportunities will only grow.

Yeah. But I think to your point, from an education and awareness perspective, I, I I a hundred percent on that consistency, but it has to be explained clearly. Yeah.

A lot of people like to get on soapboxes and all these acronyms here and there. Oh, You don't talk about acronyms? No, I do not say pushing.

Yeah. I don't even think machine anymore. They're scam messages.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is.

Yeah. No one, if you start doing like technical jargon, their eyes glaze over Yes. And they're gonna be like, I don't, I can't even touch that.

Yes. That's not even something I wanna do. I've learned that from my radio role where we talk to more consumers.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's how do you take, and you and I were both in the sciences, both in aerospace back in the day. Right.

And it's about taking complex topics Right. And converting them to digestible soundbites that a non-technical person can understand and go, I get it. Yeah.

Well, I don't feel like I ever was supposed to be in cyber in like a weird way because I never wanted to be. And then I learned everything on the job and I still, I don't know if about you, but I still feel like I never know enough. Oh yeah.

Which is the best place to be by the way. Like, I always wanna, I wanna be in a room that everyone knows something and I know nothing. Yeah.

First of all. But then I also just feel like because of that, I like had to learn weird ways. Like I don't think I'm, like, my brain is supposed to operate the way that most cybersecurity are, and so I have to learn it in a different way.

Well, it's not diversity. Yeah, it is. But which Is so Necessary.

Yeah. You Brought up earlier, you know, when you started your influence career and that you couldn't, there was that saying like, we can't be what we can't see. Right.

I do a lot of women in tech events and it's true. Yeah. We need to have mentors out there and sponsors Yeah.

That look like us, that feel like us that go, okay, I could be accepted here. Yeah. And the older you get, the less you care about that stuff.

I will tell you. Yeah. But, um, Yeah, but it's the younger generation that we're trying to get in.

Yes. You know, It's Yes. But there's so much job opportunity.

I mean, like, I I work with companies all the time that will have like different, um, programs. Yeah. Like some, like Boomie, I'm seeing Boomie World in a couple weeks and they have, um, a veterans programs.

So they work really hard with, with war veterans to get them into cyber and into technology. Right. And I I think there needs to be more light shined on things like that.

Yeah. Like there's a lot of doors and pathways. But to your point, if the employers are making it complicated Yeah.

That's not gonna help that pathway become any easier. And the other thing is, I don't know about you. I feel like as a woman, because there was like DNI DNI initiatives when I like got in like 12 years ago, I always felt like I wa I didn't know if I was hired for the right reasons.

Yeah. Even though, like I, and I, I'm not, I'm gonna toot my own heart. I had an incredible resume.

Like I had, I had three jobs in school, I had three different internships. Like I nailed my interview, but I always had that like weird thing in the pit of my stomach being like, was I only here for, because I'm a woman? Did I check a box?

Did I check a box? And then it really made me like the imposter syndrome actually really like set in a lot of times. And I, I actually am kind of happy, like I want as many women in this field as possible.

Yeah. But I also want the best, most qualified people in the role. Yes.

And so I want to make sure, I feel like it helps with imposter syndrome too, from a woman perspective. I agree. Like, don't hire a woman because we're a woman, hire the person for the right role.

Yes. And we're trying to train the women to be the right woman. Yes.

Right. So I think there's like a weird, Well there's also all these stats and I'm forgetting the actual specific stats, but like, like, I don't know, 80 plus percent of females, if they see a job on LinkedIn and they don't meet every requirement, they don't apply. Whereas men Oh, I got that.

Yeah. And so, and now with ai it's even more challenging because everybody wants people with AI experience. You're using AI to write your copy.

How do I set out, I use it Out, write Everything. Oh, I wrote my radio. We here for it tomorrow morning.

Right. GR chat this morning. Yeah.

It's the Best. It is the best. I, I like it as a, a creative inspiration.

That's how I leverage It. I, I have a lot of good stuff going in my mind probably can tell with all the yes conversations that we have. But I, it really helps me do like a brain dump and then it helps me reorganize, like Oh yeah.

How I should frame things. Yes. So that's what I love about it.

Yeah. But I think for folks that rely on it, that's a different story. Yeah.

And I think I, I was reporting on this recently about like, it's a really high percentage of, of students between like 17 and 25 who are dependent on things like chat, GPT. Can You imagine going through school with that as a resource? I would dumb, my thesis would dumb would been so much easier.

Yeah. I would be, that's, that's the challenge. Are you not learning enough or retaining it because you can get it spit out you back at you in seconds.

Yeah. So it's, it's a double-edged sword. Yeah.

But it's like, like I say, technology is inherently neutral. It's used for good and bad. Right.

Let's find all of the good uses and amplify that everywhere. For sure. I feel like a sense of responsibility as, as, as a tech executive and now a reporter and media person to help more people understand how not to be afraid of things like ai.

I talk about it all the time on the radio. Yeah. Why there are risks and I want to help you be aware of them, but let me tell you all the things that it's already doing that you're interacting with that you don't know.

Well, And I think I, I was talking to someone else about this, like, I feel like everyone's like, oh, buzzword ai. Buzzword ai. But like, we need to move past the point of like, ai, because ai, even when AI was a buzzword like two years ago Yeah.

It was already implemented. People just didn't talk about it. Exactly.

So I'm like, it's already like, I mean the Netflix recommendations, your Instagram, the face filters, your Instagram recommendation, everything it's already used already use, use the technically ai depending on your definition. And so it's like, okay, well how do we move past like, okay, AI is like everywhere it's gonna take over. Here are all the, the scary risks to, okay, let's implement this in our day because we're not gonna run from this.

We can't, we can't. It's already here. Oh yeah.

So how do we like optimize it the most? I think I made a video about like the four things you shouldn't be putting in like ai LOI saw that. I saw that.

I'm like, we're gonna use it. So like here's just FYI don't, don't be putting this information Little guard rails. Yeah.

But, but then there's healthy uses of it and it's like what? Like some of the applications in healthcare Yeah. Are phenomenal.

Yeah. Detecting skin cancer, I mean, you name it. And, and the train has left the station.

Right. Chat. GPT was born.

It just catalyzed this movement. Yeah. Yeah.

Where every company that I work with either, either as a marketer or as a member of the media, we have to have an AI story. Well, what is it? It has to be real.

Yeah. And then you have to go, okay, here we are at RSA, how do we secure ai? Right.

It can be done. It's not easy, but it can be done. We can get proactive against the defenders.

Yep. We just have to be constantly doing it and learning and evolving. Yep.

And the tech is evolving faster than laws and regulations. It's just such an interesting time to be alive and be working. I know.

I'm a I'm, I'm trying to figure out how the, to best optimize it honestly. Yes. Like how, what do I do to like, make sure that I'm fully taking advantage of this, like massive growth.

Agree so Fast. Agree. It is so fast.

What's next for you? We know we follow you on at cybersecurity. Girl, you were just in Montega.

Was that the NATO youth summit? Yeah. Awesome.

Yeah. And then you came here, got stuck in Barcelona, but you came here Barcelona, but I came here. What's Next?

What can we expect to learn from you next? I mean, I'm gonna just constantly, constantly be throwing out amazing videos hopefully and educational videos. Yeah.

And I'll tell you my like future goal is to like have like a kids, like Bill and I kind of show, but for like STEM and tech and ai. Love that because I, I am, and something I talked about at NATO was like, we have so much responsibility and opportunities with these kids to make AI and cybersecurity not a scary thing and not a necessity, but like fun. Yes.

And if they're able to be like curious and play with it from the beginning, we are gonna see massive growth in that field from when they as, as they get older. Um, and so I'm like really excited about the future of that. But I would love, I wanna do like a TV show.

I, I'm ultimately just trying to build like a trustworthy, continue to build a trustworthy brand. Yeah. Because I do feel like it's my responsibility to be the one person that's like, Hey, no clickbait, no bs.

Here's what's going on. Yeah. And here's what you need to do.

And like, have, have fun. So, Well you're democratizing access to all of the generations for cybersecurity. Why it should be part of their, their fabric, their personal fabric, their professional fabric.

Yeah. And why it's a good thing and not you're demystifying it. Yeah.

And that's needed. Yeah. That's what I always say.

I always say like, I'm demystifying cybersecurity as a whole. Like in general you are careers, cyber, whatever it is. Just, that's where I wanna Be.

Well keep doing what you're doing. I learn intent from you like every day. I appreciate you responding to my DM the other day.

I'm like, Caleb responded. I Felt like so cool. Oh my gosh.

I appreciate you messaging me. Of course. Yeah.

And I wanted our audience to be able to learn from you because this is something that is just the fabric of our daily lives and we appreciate your insights, your time, and sharing all of your knowledge with us so consistently. Thank you Caitlyn. Thanks so much for having me.

It was my pleasure. For Caitlyn, Sarah, and I'm Lisa Martin. This wraps up four days of coverage at RSAC 2025.

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