Sergei Egorov, Atomicjar, Inc. | KubeCon + CloudNativeCon NA 2022

This is texturing TV. Hey Mitch, Ashley here at kubecon Detroit the Motor City. We're having fun here at kubecon talking cloud native and security testing all kinds of things matter fact gentleman's joining me.

Today is Sergey igorov air. Close. I'm close with atomic jar.

Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me my first coupon by the way.

Is it really? Yeah, it's my first one, but that's a great show. I did too big for me.

Like, you know, like I feel that you know, like also say it was already was already being a large shell but nevertheless really really cool stuff and interesting vacation, too. You're jumping into the Canada the big big pond here coming to me. So for you, that's what we do on.

Yeah. Well tell me about yourself and what you do it Atomic jar and Company so They they say that I'm CEO I say that I'm developer was privileges but I believe in adapt those companies is basically the same but Atomic jar is a devtools company. We are building soft services for the open source projects that being there for almost eight years test containers.

It's the go-to solution for developers right now for integration testing and everything we are doing is about developers. Like I'm not jumping on stage with developers developers developers, but I'm actually jumping at my place every time I see more developers discover test continues and adopted because that's how I Learn about task containers. That's what made me fall in love with the product of the project and turn it into product later.

But maybe to give a quick background on what test containers is great. The idea is Devops movement happens like delves culture develops everywhere, but it feels that it's a bit of a home alone story because there is Canon which is testing because we mother nice infrastructure women are nice how we develop things. We modernize our ideas modernized everything but testing remain kind is the same we have like gay team doing selenium and like walking through UI but what if we develop microservice what if we don't have UI or why should a separate team be responsible for testing why why can't developers do the same like we are shifting to the left everything infrastructure.

Like they do operations monitoring all of that. Why don't we ship to the left testing and that's what test continues is about but an interesting thing about our approaches that we are shifting testing to the left, but we are not shifting tools that used to be like on the staging environment Community teams all that. We are not shifting them.

Lab, those are Faster Horses and it's kind of funny because we're in the city of Fort but I see them as Faster Horses. Yes, they like we can modernize them but it's not the revolution we need what we need is we need to shift to the right what developers are doing already today? testing the ways you to do it which is right now is unit testing that doesn't give you enough confidence to ship straight to prod but if we replace mocking and Chord defenses with real dependence real Kafka real posters real anything then that's how we achieve modern testing and that's what test containers does.

It's a library open source library that gives developers access to Rio dependencies. By using them as code dependencies by coding their test environments and test dependencies. So would you describe it as like test driven development kind of building tests why you're doing development?

That's actually good question because when we talk about test driven development, we usually talk about tests First Development like a broadcast known as an implement, but that's not how most of developers work like I mean, Companies are lucky if they're developers are doing testing at all. I mean automated testing good point. Yeah, because they might as well be doing manotesting.

I start the service I click some something where I can send some requests with insomnia or Postman or something like that and I code testing but it works today. I mean my service works today, then I write code tomorrow I break something but I will not be going through the same test scenaris manly, right and I introduce a regression but after meeting testing runs over and over and over and over and I'm not. I'm not and I advocate of DDD as the only approach but I do things that automated testing should be part of every software development lifecycle out there because that's how you maintain the balance between having automated testing a scene.

I write functionality. I write tests for this functionality and I basically help myself because I'm a lazy developer that want to do repeated actions over and over and over. So I write a test once and this task can run every time I change my application.

So it's more like test the test driven development as in there are testing your development process versus test First Development with being very in some sense like how like being a zillot of testing as in no. No, please don't Implement anything until you write tests because that that limits you in what you what you can do and you know faster developers like to work on. Anyway, you want to you we're gonna work on whatever way designing developing whatever you're So is it interesting?

You said you mentioned being a lazy developer actually a couple of best developers that are good friends of mine. I've known for a long time. They say exactly the same thing.

I'm a lazy developer, right the least amount of code possible I code unless I need to I mean, so but and they they do a lot of heavy reuse like you're talking about. Are you focused on cloud native primarily or just any kind of testing that you're shifting kind of Shifting left for us. It's basically if you're developing back-end application, not necessarily like we see that containers be using being used with front and applications too.

But like most of those focus on back end if you're developing a bike and application being a microservice or monolith, or maybe your developing a kubernetes operator. Why not? You must probably will need to start external dependencies like databases Brokers and what's not like maybe if you're developing kubernetes operator, you need kubernetes cluster to test it the properly test it and we give them a library.

Not a framework not a new tube just a library like something you can easily plug into your code. And then start all those things in a very very lazy fashion because you don't need to know you need to have the knowledge of how to start coffee in docker. You just say new Kafka container with this version of confident platform the same that runs in production and you have Kafka running and you obtain it as a dependency similar to how you use let's say other Frameworks out there like we aren't just writing code over and over and over but we added as dependency and the same concept applies here.

Okay, good good. So your first first time at kubecon what other than being really big and get that totally. What's your impressions of?

What's Happening Here? I'm curious with fresh eyes. You know, what do you see happening in the industry?

And what's Happening Here? I find it's very interesting. Like it's a it's an interesting mix of variety of people.

It's developers. It's a lot for teams. It's like more like infrastructure folks vendors and not only vendors to represented by you know, like by Sarah stance, but also vendors who come to keep calm to learn about other vendors and other toes and that's actually very interesting because I'm very used to community conferences.

For example special in Java like my background this Java, but you go to devox or Java one or gonna go just come all this conferences and Is like 90% of people from the same group like as a developers where you go to the like database conference, like all that infrastructure folks. Here's a mix but it makes it a really cool because if you're not sure how you want to position yourself. Like what's your messaging?

We are right now like it's our first boost experience at Atomic jar and we are trying our messaging with a variety of folks but it's also really cool when someone approaches you like they they are let's say I don't develops architect and then you ask them have you heard of test containers? They're like, maybe I'm not sure I didn't think so, but maybe it brings the Bell then you start explaining what it does like. Oh, yeah or developers are using it and then you have a developer who comes to you and you talk about they know about this containers, but they want to know how they can improve it on their infra side of things.

It's just a good exposure to a variety of groups and I find it unique really really unique like I never what's going on. You know, what? People have it seems like having the open source component of it.

Oh, that's an apart from you know, a lot of other conferences suicide just vendor where the bus obviously we're you know, that that's part of our ecosystem is products that people buying but having that Foundation of Open Source, you know changes the conversation a bit and it's not then they're dreaming like it's not let's say reinvent which is great great conference, but then it's all about AWS and then you're kind of limiting yourself into conversations to like the more like AWS specific while here all the clouds are represented those eventers are represented. It's a very like it's a community of vendors of people and users. And those are really large ones.

So not surprised why it's so big because it's a combination of all them versus just one. Yeah. So how do folks engage with the atomic yard you mentioned open source.

Is there, you know SAS part of this I would folks Your stuff so the open source Library been there for eight years almost eight years, but we've been hearing this feedback from our users over and over and over because it's Docker based technologies that especially like talker came a long way from like being like early early adoption to being like Z2. Everyone is using to okay. We're replacing Docker was like lower level components like you won't find Docker and kubernetes anymore, but one of its components which kind of makes a lot of sense but then To have your experience consistent and Doki Remains.

The base is best API for integration testing. For example, we could Target kubernetes and kubernetes API, but then we won't be able to do some really interesting things like connecting and disconnecting things with networks like with test containers. You can start your application start Costco or radius, then disconnect your application from radius.

It has that your application response to redis not being available. Like when you're upgrading it, for example, like whether you have the right timeouts and all that just one of those examples but Doki Remains the best API, but it becomes harder and harder to find Docker in virus environments. And what we do is test continuous Cloud.

We provide management platform where Year-run your tasks and we take care of the rest. We basically move Docker from the machines at France's test to the cloud to the edge actually because our platform is like Edge platforms like more than 20 locations across the world. And then what happens is that since containers are no longer running on the machine that runs a test justification and run.

You can optimize your test Runner to be much smaller machine. Now, you only need to run your test code like simmer into unit testing. and then we can also do it's not just one environment that we can provision but many of them like we run more tests at the same machine in parallel.

Which is not possible with continuous when they run shares the same CPU that runs the test. com? org.

And for those of you who are interested in test containers Cloud. It's that's continuous dot cloud. Very good.

We'll start again. Thank you very much for coming by and thank you. Welcome to your first coupon and yeah with Community this way, very enjoyable experience and thanks for having me you bet.

It's been a pleasure. So we have more interviews coming up with other great folks like Sergey and atomic charge, so please check out their stuff and ask those questions that Sergey is talking about. I'm sure there'll be some good information.

They can share we'll be right back either Alan or I will be be setting up for our next conversation. So we'll see you soon.