Fred Simon & Amit Ezer, JFrog | Yalla DevOps 2022

This is texturung TV. All right. Hey, we're back here at yellow devops and the Hilton Tel Aviv the buzzes.

Well, the did the roar has died down a little bit because the sessions are back open. It was very loud here 700 strong sold out conference. The conferences are back and it's good to be back.

So let me introduce you to our next two guest one is one needs. No way introduction. He's been on my show for years and years.

We just came off stage and that's Fred Simon who is a co-founder and is a chief data scientist, right? Yes for Jay frog Fred. Welcome back and sitting next to Fred we have is a first time on our show is yeah.

Okay. All right. So actually this cameras looking.

All right, so my name is Amit amitizer. I'm leading Jay for a connect which is a new group here at Jay frog we were startup actually quiet. A year ago that's called upswift.

And now we are part of the part of the family of jfogen. It's so excited to be here actually and thank you for hosting us and our pleasure. So we have a tradition.

The first time a guest is on usually I give a little background about your your family your education. You want to tell us. Oh really?

Good day. All right. But anyway, welcome everybody.

Thank you for being here. So, you know one of the theme that's developing yala this year is I think show me called it the devops of things right this whole idea of devices not just phones and I said but devices that are connected to the net the and controlling them maybe at the edge. The relationship between the cloud The Edge device and what this means for developers.

Yeah, right because it's a new just like when we started developing for the cloud. Yeah and and devops kind of took over for that child and devops. I we're almost moving.

I feel like into a new era era. So what is this mean? And and what's Jay frogs rolling that I'm gonna stop at the high level and I make these more he's handing to the handsome we all and and opening the the trunk and getting into the the devices but yes that at the high level Computing and I mean the power of the devices are actually getting bigger and bigger and they'll start to be a lot of layers.

We talked about it on the panel. That was really nice. There is the very higher and then there is actually Embedded devices which are what we are focusing on and then there is edges and then there is the big cloud and and all these different layers with different capabilities.

But all of them, I have quite a good level of computing memory storage power on very small power devices and environment and all of them, they need software and this is kind of the Revolution we are living today is that most of the people that are designing those make whole devices they are Hardware specially and they don't they have the software guys that develop with them and they have the same kind of mentality and these agile deploy every day over the other day continues and all this kind is not part of their own they are thinking and this is where we need to be. This is where we need to go. Not only because it's fun to update software.

Yeah, right, but because it's really provide value to the device. It's also saying more secure. That's the only way to secure the devices that will be always problems and the world is changing.

Also. Yeah, every sensor is in a different environment needs to connect to different systems. And so there is always better way of doing it more system to connect to so change is the root of the game and this is what up Swift is doing to help them.

Yeah and well, yeah, I will add to that and say you said that it's a new era and and in that term of fire T and it's for me. It's amazing. I see customers every day.

I meet customers every day and they just looking for best practices and this and this. In this market because you know, they came they all came from the regular devops Cloud environment where they are using ansible or kubernetes on the the providers out there that are giving them a lot of tools and when they are coming to the challenges that they meet in in the edge, they try the first thing that as a developer we probably will try to do try to take something that you already know and connect it with a few scripts that you can that you can do you can develop for your use case and when I'm showing them connect when I'm showing them what we did here. So you they you see the you see their eyes and join just and you see that they are in their stand that we are really trying to build here the end to end solution from the from the developer to the device with all the tools that they might need to have in this in this area and connecting to to a few things that Fred said we see that we see more and more complex software in the edge and it's of course coming with with a strong Hollywood that is getting there.

And this is another positive thing to see from the side. You know that you see where the future is going. The future is really going to this place where you're gonna have a really strong device in the edge in the end running with containers and not one or two.

It is funny. But we do have now project with more than 20 containers running on an edge device. That's that's just crazy.

Right and I mean, you can't run 20 containers without having a good maintenance system behind it. So that's that's really the story of what we're gonna see I think a few viewers from now, I think sooner than you have that I could think about way of yeah celebrating but you know talking to show me early we did an interview here. I've been in this technology a long time.

There's a saying take technology old technology Never Dies, right? It just gets kind of subsumed absorbed into the next thing right so I know in my lifetime, I went from before the internet to TCP IP in the internet then the cloud right but just because and we spent so much focus on cloud today doesn't mean the data center went away. It didn't go away.

There's probably as much indeed as there is in the cloud that's right. Now we'll focus on the edge because that's the shiny new baby. We want to play with doesn't mean the cloud goes away so that I think the same way we learned multi-cloud we're gonna learn multi Home multi place, right?

So there's a place for the cloud on the device or there's a relationship. Right between the cloud and the devices the relationship between the edge and the cloud but it's a for the multi-cloud and the hybrid and things like that. It's really decentralized.

Right so distributed, okay, every kubernetes cluster in Google Amazon or Azure is the same kubernetes cluster here with the edge. There is a article organization that got to be taken in place. By the way.

We we have it today in the club native application between the amount of things that you do on the client side in your npm in your JavaScript kind of things. How much compute you put in your JavaScript web and how much and we start to see that really really funny about bunch of young JavaScript developer that just discovered that they can generate HTML on the server. Here it was super excited about generating HTML on the server and sending it to the clients right you.

want to contact he ordered that so about technology Never Dying. It's just yeah, I know it does it they spend all their lives only. I didn't know I'm out of JavaScript and all this stuff on this stuff.

Maybe I can do it because then it's all that was really really funny and but for the edge, it's kind of the experience. We are we are seeing here exactly that the same how much compute you put on the edge. And and the thing is that a car for example Is the food that the center?

There is a centralized one that is actually connected to the internet. There is another centralized computer that is controlling the car a lot of money or any control there. He's just you yeah, and there is the display for entertainment display and all these kind of things a whole nother.

Yeah, exactly. So when you look at it, it's a full data center. Okay with a lot of that.

Oh living on the edge and yeah, I mean literally yeah, that's and and each one as a different level of security and each one has a different operating system operating systems and and the way to update and it's quite clear that Today the way it is developed updated secure and distributed is a huge waste of energy for all the developers. There is a huge waste of time sideways said do it doing the same thing again wrongly most of the time the first time and and trying to fix it and this is what we need to create and we need to provide is the platform to help those guys say, please don't be invent the wheel there is a way to do that. We do do JavaScript that does html but that being I I don't disagree with anything you guys said but I think the other key to it is and I mentioned it on stage is the 5G aspect right this idea of instantaneous deep communication, right?

Because otherwise we have to build the edge to be autonomous. Right, like let's take cars. Right?

I just got a brand new a BMW IX. I had to wait a long time mostly because the chips it was chips, you know with supply chain, but it is it's a data center. There are I forgot how many chips that go into this car and the software is automatically updated.

It's the latest IOS and I always OS for me and W right. I had an incident last last month my radio this I actually don't have satellite satellite wasn't playing it said it was playing but it wasn't playing I went right to the dealer be apologize. I had a bad update.

Yeah, and that we update it. Once they updated everything work great again. This is the world.

We're gonna live in. So my two question you you should not have the goal of what we are doing is we as a developer that develop this system problem. We should be aware of your problem before you are exactly that's exactly what my system saying your sound is playing and I'm saying unless it's not play.

It shouldn't reported back. Right? So two things number one, you hit it the end user.

He has to be he shouldn't be part of them right you wanted to see has to be done. Right? But yeah, it should work.

It's just work like apple just work. Yeah, right, but here's my point. And we do it for the developers at what point have we put too much on that developer's plate, right?

We put Security on their plate. They had to learn from the become like good on the side some Java and a full stack now to benetti and we're not easy an edge at some point. There's a you know that we have this problem with their plates, right do we need you can humans still pilot points better than autopilot the machine are we getting to the point where humans?

It's too much? I personally I mean even so I'm as a developer. The only way for us to create the quantity of software that is needed for the world for the world.

And softly is to use tools and to create this is what we are doing. So we create our own Automation and we create our own software. We're gonna automate our way out of it.

Yeah, exactly. So that what you make them so far more you're a little younger. They're not good.

What do you think? I mean when you're sitting here 10 20 years from now. Well, first of all of this reminding me that you know coding is is another war that is getting to a place where you won't need to code.

You already see a lot of automations that are helping you to write code faster and you know, there will be a day that you won't need to know the syntax at all probably for the languages that you are using but but I do believe that we need to our job should be that we need to help the developers have less and less constraints by giving them the the solutions radio as possible, you know with kubernetes today. You need to know a lot. Before you can do something and that's one of the key things that I really put when I started up Swift and as part of Jay frog and the whole end to end solution that we gave we want the developer to stay where he's good at and giving him the tools in a way that he doesn't really need to know what is going on behind it in the background, you know, just by using a UI that my parents can use without having any knowledge in the world of programming that's for for me.

This is this is this should be where we're going to and keep the developer focus on what he's doing best, which is of course the application and not the coronary staff from Yahoo. He had a very good definition of what is devops, and I need to apply really perfectly for iot. From commit to production without human intervention everything that the developer does once he ride the code and he has a commit how this code and up on your car on your machine.

That's that's all process. There should not be any human in the middle manipulating. They need to be a lot of automation.

Yeah, a lot of things that human are automating and putting in in the process and a lot of automated processes, but there are no need for human intervention and today in the iot world the amount of human intervention to deploy, you know where to devices is just through the top is just just crazy. We need that it is it's so hard. It's it's in everything we do even I so I'm a big Sonos user at home my whole house when there's an update Sonos.

I can't watch TV, right because it never works. I always Has got to get in and do it by hand. Yeah, it's just and pray.

That's me adorns up with a call. I do I do multi multi provider on me. I have Nvidia and then Android and then Antigua, I have all kinds of and Google home and Alexa, you know, I don't trust anyone.

But yeah, they all wake up and at least there is always one of them, but Well, that's I do do the Amazon Alexa if the son. OS don't die it frustrates me. Yes, fine.

Even if out of the 15 or 16 speakers just that one's not working. I take the whole thing apart to make one of them work even though I take 14 offline. Anyway that that's yeah.

I'm sick like that. Anyway, I I do I want to end our interview with this. It is sort of a new era here.

Right? We we need to think just like when we first started getting our head around a cloud and a public Cloud we need to think about devices about Edge and about what that means for developers what it means for the end users what it means for the way we do, you know never lose sight of everything we do is for a reason right all of this fantastic Innovation and Order Nation. Look what the world especially now right with covid.

Where would we have been without? Of the covid right? And and that's something we don't we can't lose sight of right we do this.

To make everyone's lives better. Yeah right to do things better. And if and if in somehow we could do it then it's worthwhile to do.

Yes. Yeah for the developer suffering. Continues and degradation there was one sentence that was really good for continuous integration.

If it hurts if it's painful do it more often, right exactly lover and then you you stop talking and this is exactly what we need to do here. It helps it's painful do it more and we'll get better. Welcome to your first section on TV many year frog yes continued success.

Thank you. All right, we're gonna take a break. I think they're gonna probably do lunch here at yalla, and then we'll be back after lunch.

We have Fred back on with our friend Baruch about we're gonna talk about a new book. Yes as well, and we have a whole bunch of other guests. So check us out.

Thank you. Thank you.