Closing the Talent Gap through Mentorships – The Open Mainframe Show EP 26

Hi everyone, this is Alan Shimmel, CEO, founder of Techstrong, and you are watching the Open Mainframe. If you've never watched the Open Mainframe before, the Open Mainframe is a monthly video series that we do in partnership with our good friends at the Open Mainframe Project, which of course is part of the Linux Foundation. And, um, the Open Mainframe is kind of an umbrella for 20 odd, I think it's 26th or 27 different projects within the Open Mainframe Project itself.

Some of are well-known software projects, some are, uh, community projects. Today we're gonna be talking about a big community project that the Open Mainframe has been working on, they've been involved with for years, and that's their mentorship program. I've got a great panel of folks I want to introduce you to who are gonna be talking about this today.

Let me get right through them while their names are somewhat in my head. And, um, I'll introduce you to them and we'll get started. First, I'd like to introduce you to Okay, Vivia, go, go, Ali Close.

Go. Swami GOs Swami. Excuse me.

Divya GOs. Swami Divvy. I apologize.

Divya, now that I've butchered your name, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey? Uh, thank you. Uh, thank you.

And I, so I'm Divya Goswamy. I've been a ment mentee at, uh, open Mainframe Project three years back for a project called Software Discovery Tool, and this year I've come back as a mentor. And yeah, I'm pretty much excited to be here.

We're excited to have you here and thank you. Um, next I'd like to introduce you to Joie Ortiz. Close.

That's perfect. Uh, so I got one right. Joie, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Um, I am part of the Open Mainframe Project team. I work closely with John and May. Um, I've been on the Open Mainframe Project now for three years, and I've been helping support the mentorship program for about two years.

Um, so I've been the one that's been managing the portal, the attendee, I'm sorry, the mentees and the mentors. And next up I'd like to introduce you. I, I'm, I'm gonna mess this one up, I'm pretty sure, but it's, uh, osh, but say, right.

Mm-Hmm. I am osh. So I joined the Open Mainframe Project as a mentee, uh, back in 2022 for the project, uh, mainframe Open education.

Uh, I then went on to join their core team, uh, where I serve as a university lead. So what I do is that I head the student user group for this project. Very good.

Thank you. And thank you for being here, and thank you for what you're doing. Next up, let me introduce you to our friend Len San Lucia.

Len has not been a mentee recently, but Len is a key player in the Open Mainframe Project. Len, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself, telling people a little bit about you. Certainly Alan.

Thank you. Uh, hello everyone. I'm Len Santo Lucia, and I am the, uh, chair of the governing board of the OPA Mainframe Project.

Uh, I have been in that position since the inception of the OPA Main Mainframe Project. Uh, I think it's, we're in our eighth year, going on our ninth year now. And, um, I am also the CTO of the mainframe practice at our company, uh, converged Technology Solutions.

And, uh, I've been a mentor a number of times, uh, again this year as a matter of fact with, uh, the Open Mainframe Project. It's something I enjoy doing very much at this point in my life and career. Um, giving back, uh, and seeing a lot of nice young people come into the business and help them along any way I can.

I love it. And thank you for what you do, Landon. This, you could go on about that, but you no kidding, as I do, will give a lot of yourself at half for years into this community.

Last but not least, thank you. Last but not least, I want to introduce my co-host here on the Open Mainframe Project when he is not doing this with me. Well, I'm not quite sure what he does when he is not doing this with me, but he's actually the executive director of the Open Mainframe Project.

It's my, and he's an author and he is a bunch of other good stuff. My friend John Murda. K John, how are you?

I, I am doing well, Alan, we're having Florida like weather here in Ohio, so I I hear that I can commiserate here, so I might be flipping my air conditioning on and putting myself on mute from time to time. But, uh, no, this is, this is an exciting one here. I, you know, the mentorship led mentioned nine years of the project.

This was like the first initiative that the Open Mainframe project kicked off. It's actually part of why it was even, you know, a lot of reasons was formed, but this is why really one of the core things was how can we establish a mentorship to help attract, um, you know, new talent to the mainframe. And it's been one of the things that, I mean, we've had a lot of successes here, but this is the one that year in year out has been just continued growing success.

And, and I'm, I'm really excited to hear these stories. 'cause I mean, I, I can remember that. I mean, le you remember it, Atlanta, Cher Yes, I do.

The students that came there, they were the stars of the show. Uh oh. They were, they were.

And it was just amazing how excited they were. Um, so I, this is, this is one of my favorite things to do. This is one of my favorite things of the mentorship because I just love seeing the next generation being so excited about the technology and the work.

So, um, yeah, And, and you're right, John, uh, a couple, remember a couple, I think it was these, at least one, maybe even two of those students there got positions because of how well they spoke at that event. Oh, yeah. They did a very good job.

Yeah, I know two, I think actually three. 'cause I think one, yeah, one was a DP, there's one that's working in Germany, and then another one for IBM. So yeah, pretty amazing.

It really is. Well, look, I, I think it's a testament that we have two former mentees coming on here and now is med towards, right? That, that speaks volumes to the success of a project like this is that, you know, we talk about passing if generation to generation, um, you know, and, and, uh, in Hebrew there's a term Devore ro Devore, which means passing it on.

And that's really what we're seeing here, passing it on. We have someone like Len who, who, you know, led, you've got 40 years in the mainframe business, almost, you know, um, uh, maybe 40 plus years and, and you've been mentoring since they first started this nine years ago. And then we have these two great young people who were just in the project, what, in 2022 and 2020 and, and are already now stepping up and mentoring the next generation of, of folks coming in.

So, you know, that's success, right? That, that's what success is. John, if you don't mind or lend either one of you or, or, or, or Johnny, I mean, you're, you're the kind of administrator, right?

What, what is, when we talk about what is the purpose of the project, right? It's obviously to bring new people into the cult to bring new people into the industry, but are they all young people? Are they, are we looking for particular demographics or geographies or, you know, give us a little bit more of the kind of layout of, of the, of the med program.

Um, maybe I'll tee it off and then I would kind of jadi and, and Len maybe to, to sort of chime in. So like you, I kinda went back earlier, like, you know, the, when this project was forming back in 20 15, 1 of the, the core concepts around it was, um, how can the mainframe, you know, industry as a whole be adaptable to where it is going, which was in a more open source direction. And this was a trend we've seen.

I mean, Alan, you've done interviews across every single vertical there and, you know, this is, this is the repeatable thing we see all over the place. Um, and you know, as a part of that, they said, you know, is open, open source, can that be a way to help draw students into the mentorship into the industry? Um, and so the idea really was out of this is, you know, how can we sort of expose, you know, and there's a lot of different levels to it.

I think one of just showcasing, Hey, open source is here, but then I think two of can we, can we showcase that the mainframe industry is one that you can, you can truly have a solid career in. You know, you can, you can get in here and there are tons of opportunities and, and ones that in many cases are some of the highest paying opportunities for students coming outta college. Um, and, and we saw this pattern already in a couple of different areas.

Um, there's been a couple of universities that had sort of some direct feeder programs to various organizations, but this is sort of the first time that we kind of did this as sort of a global initiative. 'cause even our first round of mentees, you know, we had some base in the US but we also had some base across to Europe as well. Um, so this is a really sort of unique experiment, if you would to, of how it came together.

Um, and I just think we've just seen it just sort of grow and grow and expand to all sorts of corners world. I think we've had mentees from, you know, five, six different continents now. Um, so it's, it's, it's been, it's been pretty amazing.

So anyways, that's kind of, I think like the context of where we kicked there. I mean, Jo Lynn, maybe if you wanna kind of plug in from there of how you see it. I 100% agree with everything that John has said.

Um, and one thing that I've noticed since I started here working with the mentorship program is, as he mentioned, there's a vast number of mentees that come from all over South America, Asia, um, Africa, the us, Canada, which is nice. Um, but it's, it's also comforting for me to see that some of the participants of this program, um, that have participated two, three years ago, when I'm doing my daily work and check-ins with the technical community, I'll see their names and they're still participating. So it gives 'em the opportunity to one, um, learn and work with a mentor and enhance their skills, but also to maintain that work and continue, um, and have a window open to them for future opportunities that they pa possibly may not have had otherwise.

So we have a really good core of mentors that work with these mentees. And then, um, the community, it just helps build that community and that partnership. Uh, I agree with everything that Yardi and, uh, um, John said, but, uh, additionally, you know, the thing that is the most important, uh, in my humble opinion on is how we're reaching another community and, and bringing two different communities together that might not have ever happened if it weren't for the Open Mainframe project mentorship program.

It, it, and like I said in the beginning, you know, being able to help with that and, uh, let people, uh, hear some of the experiences that someone such as myself has had so that they can accelerate through their careers, uh, uh, utilizing any knowledge I might be able to pass on to them or things that I help them avoid so that they don't waste time with, you know, problems that, uh, or issues that, uh, they may encounter o otherwise, you know, um, and, you know, uh, this is my, uh, 51st year, uh, and, uh, you know, there's going to be a time, uh, I still don't know when, but there's still gonna be a time that I probably will have to retire or want to retire. And trying to get in, in part, as much of that experience and knowledge that I've been so lucky to, uh, learn along the way in my journey, um, I think would make a very big difference to a lot of people. I had a very good experience with, um, yard DU member, the fellow that we had that was, uh, becoming a doctor and out of, um, Africa, Lagos, Nigeria, uh, he was one of our best, uh, mentees.

Uh, in fact, he came back to the program twice, uh, through the program twice. Uh, and every time he came through, the contribution that he made has been so valuable to a lot of people, um, uh, with the, the project that he and, uh, work that he produced on the project that on which he worked. So, um, long answer to a short question, but, uh, I think between the John, my and, uh, Yardi and myself, I think, uh, people will, will see the value to this program.

Absolutely. So guys, you know, I, i, I personally come from the security world, cyber, as they call it now though, when I got in 30 plus years ago, and I wasn't a word, it was security or InfoSec. Right?

Right. Um, and, and in security, we hear a lot about the skills gap and there's, you know, there's, uh, hundreds of thousands, if not a million jobs that are opening, just waiting for people with security skills to come in and grab 'em. And over the last, let's say 10 years, we've actually seen formal cyber programs being instituted by many universities as well as, you know, other education providers.

And yet the, these recent graduates who come out of these programs have a tough time breaking into the industry for a variety of reasons. Some is a mismatch between what they're teaching in school versus the skills that are needed in industry. Some are somewhat unrealistic expectations, you know, every starting security job needs three plus years of experience.

Well, how the heck you supposed to start if you never got three plus years of experience? So I'm a big believer in industry led programs like this where people are going, getting the mentorship so that when they graduate, they can get a job that they do have the skills and experiences that employers are looking for. Now, one may look at the mainframe world and say, well, what are you teaching them?

cobol? Yeah. There's plenty of COBOL jobs out there, but there's more to mainframe industry than COBOL programming, as we all know too well, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And, you know, and you know, something Alan, uh, as part of being a mentor to these, uh, people coming into the program, it's not only teaching them the knowledge, but it's also helping place them, help helping them find the connections.

You know, networking is a big part of finding a job. It's the old saying, it's who you know. Well, it's, and you know, um, the years that I've had, uh, in the business helped me make, I know, you know, I know somebody can use somebody like this guy I am, I'm mentoring right now, or this lady that I'm mentoring right now.

Right. And that's another big plus to this program. You we're all very well, uh, connected, uh, and we should take advantage of our connections for our, uh, people that we're, uh, mentoring.

Absolutely. I Absolutely, Yeah, I agree. That's, that's part of mentoring.

It is Chang, I'm sorry. No, no, no. I was just gonna say, I, I I wanted to kind of like involve, uh, ti so divya here a little bit and, and kind of get some of their perspectives.

I mean, you, you all have, you, you've been through both sort of phases, the mentee and the mentor side. But, um, I, I wanna kind of curious, like when you came into this, um, you know, open source experience, it, it's often like a drawing thing for somebody. Um, but it's also kind of intimidating.

Um, can you kind of tell us about, did you have open source experience before? How was it learning to work with this community and this ecosystem? And then, then obviously it must have went reasonably well 'cause you decided to be mentors.

Um, so just kind of tell us about that journey a little bit. Yeah, for me, initially I was scared, you know, uh, to contribute to the projects that need you to go, because I didn't trust my coding skills so well. I remember, um, I got on a call with you, John, uh, in 20 20 20, like after your presentation at I-B-M-Z-D just to learn about this, uh, open mainframe project.

But then I was so scared of applying to this other project and I finally like got the courage in 2022 and I thought, okay, let me try out to get into the education because, you know, it wasn't as intimidating as the other ones. And yeah, it was my first time contributing to open source. And yeah, I enjoyed, um, curating educational content for this project and also, um, trying to get more students to, um, to, um, consume the knowledge that, um, we are putting out there through our, yeah, I enjoyed, um, my mentorship journey 'cause um, my mentor is, um, really friendly and, um, she provided me with all the resources that I needed to succeed.

And, you know, she opened up more opportunities for me, uh, like allowing me to be a student lead and, um, having a student user group that I used to encourage more students to come and join the open source community. And also she had me join the core team where I met, um, other more experienced professional from, um, other companies. So yeah, that's, um, what I like the most about, um, this project.

That's very nice to hear. TCL. Yeah.

Um, I'm glad you overcame your apprehension and dove in like you did that, that it took a lot of courage on your part, but now look at you, right? Look at what you're doing now. You're coming back and helping somebody yourself.

That's fantastic. It really is. Absolutely.

Divya. Let's hear a little bit about your story. What, what attracted you to this mentorship program and, you know, what, were there hurdles or apprehensions that you overcame to, to, you know, join, go on your mentee journey?

Uh, so I saw, because I wanted to apply for Linux Foundation projects, I was very much attracted to the projects or the, uh, you know, the organizations under Linux Foundation, because I know it has very close connection to a operating system I love, uh, so it's Linux and I wanted to contribute in any way in the system architecture place, anything related to that. So, open Mainframe project I had back then had a new initiative as Linux one bringing Linux one Open Mainframe, and that was like a fantastic thing. I thought like, sure, like Linux is now on open mainframe architecture as well.

So that was very fascinating for me, and that's why I saw, started applying for projects inside Open mainstream, uh, two projects I had applied. Uh, one was software Discovery tool where I got accepted, and another one was, uh, in COBOL co. Uh, and, but I was again, uh, intimated by learning COBOL and new programming language, given that I did not know anything about mainframe environment or anything.

So, uh, kind of good. It was a good thing that I got accepted in Software Discovery tool because I did get to meet new people, um, uh, during the whole mentorship phase. I liked open source contribution.

I had previous experience in that. Uh, so I got to meet other Linux maintainers. But, uh, from the job perspective, I'm not sure.

I haven't, uh, you know, really received any help in that. But then that's okay because I came back because I love Open Mainframe Project and I would like to see new students getting introduced to it. That's why.

Excellent. I, I'll throw this book out to both of you. At what point after completing your mentorship, you as a mentee, did you say, you know what, I'd, I'd like to, I'd like to turn it around.

I'd like to give back. I'd like to be a mentor. Uh, for me, it was, um, um, I had my initial internships and everything back then, so I had to yeah, finish all them up.

And then I wanted a full-time job. And then, so early after six months of the mentorship, I decided that I should start mentoring people. So I did get a few juniors, and then I became the IBMC ambassador back in that year.

So I started talking to professors of different universities in my area, and yeah, introduced to them that mainframe should be taught in our, yeah, in our curriculum. But then, yeah, that, but that was like three years back. Yeah.

Excellent. How about you Divya Glenn? I was just gonna ask Dvia a question 'cause uh, uh, Divya, did you do any, uh, attempt of any kind of COBOL programming at all?

Just to, just to see what it was like during, uh, mentorship or menteeship that you took During the, uh, mentorship? I did not, but during the Ambassador IBMC ambassador, uh, them, I, we were given courses on cobol, so yeah, that, that, yeah. How would you, you think of cobal?

Just curious. It's very different from what Python and everything. It's really different, so I found it hard to keep it up with, but yeah, it's good for a, like a new perspective into languages and how languages gets used on mainframe.

So yeah, that opened a new perspective. Oh, very good. Lucia, how about you?

Yeah, for me, I've never left the project. I've just been contributing to it ever since I got selected to be a mentee until now. And you just stayed right on.

You're a lifer. Yeah, I guess they gave me more responsibility, so I was like, you know, this, there wasn't an end to it, you know, we, we've never felt that, okay, this is the point where the mentorship ends because I was already part of the core team. So we sit on meetings every Friday.

So you get to engage with the team continuously and help out wherever you can. Absolutely. You know, I, I, I ask the both of you this because you're, you're young, you're younger than many of us on the panel, certainly younger than Len and I, but as you get older, you, you realize that giving back, that being part of the community, that giving back and being part of it gives one a tremendous sense of satisfaction.

Yes, it's great to have a job, it's great to have a career. It's great to make money and all of these things, but giving back, being able in a position where you have to give back, whether it is financial support, moral support, experience, mentorship like this, it, it really is so fulfilling, right? And I'm hoping that the both of you as younger people are, are getting that sense of accomplishment of fulfillment that you, you know, yes, this program helped you, but you are now helping it and helping others and you know, it, it's a tremendous feeling.

And, and, and Jo and led and, and John, you guys, you know, you've been involved with this now for years. Oh yeah, absolutely. It is a great, it's, it's, you know, it's what community's all about.

And open source software is about code, but open source software is about community as well as John will tell you. And, um, you know, it, it's an important part of this. And, and not to be, you know, a lot of people, it's DevOps and other community I'm very involved in, right?

People tend to think of DevOps tools as everything DevOps is about, excuse me. But DevOps isn't just about tools. DevOps is about culture, and DevOps is about people and how they interact and breaking down silos.

And, you know, it's easy to say, all right, that's all great malarkey. It's all about the tools. It's the same thing here.

It's not frankly just about the cobalt. It is about the people in the community and the growing, I mean it, you know? Yes.

Great. Totally agree. I totally, I mean, absolutely.

People watching this out here who may not be as involved in the mainframe community, say, ah, you know, it's mainframes. It's, uh, 50 years old and it's nothing new and nothing exciting. It's not sexy and, and what have you.

But I encourage you, especially young people likes Divya or Tio get involved in this community. It's a vibrant community, and it's the community that I have found, and I'm not part of the community per se. I have a peripheral kind of thing here, but it's a community that welcomes you with open arms that, you know, extends themselves and says, how, how can we help you?

Help us this And it. And know, oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. I didn't No, no. I was gonna, I was looking for you to step in, man.

Go ahead. Okay. No, and, and you know, it's, it's, it's interesting because we run a lot.

I mean, you know, Alan, we're in a lot of mentorship programs here at the Lennox Foundation. Um, mm-hmm. Many of our foundations run them.

Um, this CNCF is always the outlier of everything, you know, but if you look at the next size down from CNCF, it's this one. Like really got, like, what, I mean, I, I forget how many students have we seen apply this year? So I was actually going to chat a little bit about the growth of the program.

Um, so from 2016, we've seen an extraordinary growth of applicants and mentees. Um, in 2022, we started using LFX as our collection unit for, um, applications and mentees. 6% increase in applications.

Um, so it's a testament to the growth of the program in addition to the tool we're using. And I don't mean to like cut you off, John. No, No, no.

That's perfect Mention is everyone's talking about how much mentees get out of the mentorships, but I think it's important to note that the mentors get just as much from the mentees. Um, we've heard from some project leads that are running these mentorship programs where they've encountered, um, a roadblock in, in some sort of code and a mentee's been able to provide helpful solutions and better ways of doing things. So it's a mutual relationship where they, they benefit from one another.

Um, and it's, it's fantastic to see that some of these mentors value these mentees so much that they want them to contribute to their mentorship and invite them back to be mentees. And we have quite a few, I'm sorry, mentors, we have quite a few of them that consistently invite previous mentees to be cool mentors. So it's, it's a combination of really great mentors that are fully invested in this and believe in the program.

Phenomenal mentees. But also, um, another testament to the wonderful program we have is that I've received a lot of previous mentees reach out saying, hi, I have this mentee that, um, is applying and I really recommend them. So word of mouth has been really great this past year.

Uh, previous mentees are speaking very well of the program and are encouraging others to apply as well. So, um, again, it's just a testament to the programs that we have, the mentors and also the mentees. And it's grown quite a bit, uh, with more than 1700 applicants for 10 programs this year, which is, Yeah, I mean, the challenge is we'd love to have more programs, more funding to do more.

I mean, that, that's, that's, that's honestly our roadblock here. It's the increase there. And, and if you think about it, you know, our projects being on the LFX mentorship platform, these projects are pushed up against blockchain, cloud networking, all of these other hot industries, yet we're getting a ton that come to this one.

You know, and, and that's just a testament. I think one is just the interesting to the, the, you know, the technology, but I think two to, to, to judi's exact point, it's this community. And al in your point too, um, it's this community.

This community genuinely cares about the next generation that is coming and wants to know that it can hand it off to them successfully, just like the previous generation handed it to them. And that's kind of a unique thing. 'cause you just, there's just, I mean, oh, there's just not a lot of technology sectors that have got into that generational area yet.

Yeah, you're right. Um, and this, this is in that area. I mean, 60 years young, right?

You know, this, this group wants to know that the next 60 years are gonna be well taken care of. 'cause they put their life's work into this. And, and I think, I think that's just sort of a fascinating heart and soul of this community.

And it showcases in the mentorship program because, you know, folks like tisa Adya loved it so much. They came back, they tell everyone they know, come do this because it's great. And you, it opens opportunities.

And, you know, something, uh, I'd like to add to something, uh, that you already said because, uh, she jogged my mind on something here. I think some, most of the time, if not all the time, the one that gets the most out of these mentorships is the mentor. Mm-Hmm.

Don't you agree? I mean, the mentor gets a lot out of these, uh, in many different ways. Uh, absolutely different perspectives, different, another great relationship.

Um, and, uh, you know, sometimes the old dog learns new tricks, you know, and, uh, Yeah. And that's a good thing, Right? It's a good thing and, and it's a needed thing, so, right.

Um, this program has just become, uh, so valuable, I think, to the community and industry at large. It's, it's just been phenomenal. Absolutely.

Chatty. I'd like to come to you. We, we only, we have maybe five minutes left here, but, um, first from, for, for folks looking to be mentees, and then I'm gonna ask you for what the path is for mentors or for folks looking to be mentees.

How can they get information? What should they do? Where, where should they be?

Not, not geographically, but you know, CareerWise and, and education wise and, and you know, lifewise, you know, what, what's the right on ramp here to become a mentee? I get asked this question quite a bit, just because we have so many applicants and we are unfortunately able to accept only a few per program. Um, it's really a combination of having the skills, the desire they want.

Dvia and TSO have mentioned that some of them didn't have every single skill needed and they learned it along the way. Um, it's reaching out, showing that interest, the commitment. Um, those are the things that get people to stand out from everyone else.

Um, we also, if we're not able to accept a mentee, we offer them different ways to stay involved with the Open Mainframe community and they can still contribute to projects. Um, so once a mentor sees the commitment level of a mentee, uh, and what it is that they're looking to achieve, those are the things that are going to make them stand out. And I would even offer Len, um, the opportunity to answer this just because he has to review these applications and make the selections.

So he would have a little more insight on what they look for as mentors. Um, but I would say, or anyone that applies or that is interested in applying, if they're not accepted the first time around, don't give up, never keep trying. And again, we offer them different ways to stay connected and work with the community.

And the more that they, they work and, and they get their name out there, the more that the let go away. That way they become a familiar face, um, and they could still enhance their skills while, you know, they wait for the next round. Absolutely.

Just real nuts and bolts. What, what website can people go to to get information and apply? So on our Open Mainframe project website, we do have a section there for mentorships, and that will direct them to the LF Fox Mentorship portal, which is where they actually have to apply for the programs.

Um, but we do offer a lot of information there with timelines. Uh, for the most part, the past few seasons we've offered summer terms. Um, it's always a conversation and something that we're willing to consider to do potential fall or spring terms.

org. We have a section there, um, where people can go and read a little bit more about our programs and it will take them right into what the applica or what is open and the application process. I love it.

That's good stuff. Let's flip it over now to mentors. Maybe there's some folks in the community saying, you know, what, if it, if Lynn can do it, I could do it.

How do you, how do they go about kinda, you know, getting on that path? We have a core group of mentors that have come term after term because they see so much value in the program. Um, but we open it up various channels.

We have, um, tech meetings twice a month where we talk about the program and we invite people to participate. Um, John, I'll let you chime in. Um, but for the most part, it's an open invitation to those in our technical community where if they have a pro program or project with a need, and there's some way that we can help them with this mentorship program, we offer them the ability to submit and, um, have their program reviewed by us and potentially accepted.

Um, but for the most part, we've had a really great core group of people that we've worked with. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's something, yeah, it's something we open up to all of our hosted projects is a great opportunity for them as, as they're looking to build up contributors and maintainers. And, and for a lot of those projects, like these mentees have moved into maintainer Ship Robles in these projects. Um, you know, some of you, we would into careers in this as well.

So there's a lot of open doors there. Uh, we also have an angle where a number of our member organizations are able to do mentorships through here. I mean, our big requirement there is that it needs to be open source.

You know, the output has to be open source, and it has to be for the benefit of the mainframe ecosystem. And, and actually really before we had a lot of projects, that's really where the bulk of our mentorships were. I mean, suse did a ton that made huge contributions to, um, cloud Foundry, a number at Kubernetes and a number of other, OpenStack, a number of technologies.

They helped run quite a few. Um, you know, we've, we've had ones by various organizations that came and do that. So that was a lot of our bread butter in these later years.

We've seen much more of our projects. We have, Zoe runs a ton, but also software Discovery tool, uh, Phil Long and a number other ones, but both of those are angles in there. And it's a great also just, you know, membership benefit opportunity that you, you can run it through there because many of these mentees that you're working with, they, they get direct hire, they love them so much.

Um, you know, SUSE's hired them, IBM's hired them. All of these are many of these folks that have ran. Then they hire them because they're just, it, it's, it's, it's just a great experience.

Both sides get to learn quite a bit and, and it's just kind of a unique experience for the student. I think it's, you know, probably one of the first times you're working on something that you are sort of the self-directed one out of it. You're not having a professor do 1, 2, 3, and four.

It's you and the mentor sitting down and learning to do 1, 2, 3, and four and figuring out you as the mentee are building that project plan with them. And it's, it's a fascinating experience and we see so many mentees that, uh, I mean, some mentees that kind of struggle, we see so many that they thrive in it, and it just becomes a great growth opportunity. There.

There. Hey guys, we are about outta time. Silly question, John.

I'm throwing it out at you. It's not even a question. It's a request.

org. Okay. And, and that's, that's really your starting place for all of this, right?

Yeah. You can go there, you can look up programs, including the mentorship program and, and, and begin your journey. Divya, sio, you know what?

You guys are shining examples of what can happen when, when people care and, and put the time and effort in on both sides of these equations, on the mentee and the mentor side. I, I commend you and, and you know, I just think it's great to see young people out here doing this and, and, and then paying it forward, keep doing what you're doing and, and get a lot of success in doing it. Um, Joti, you know what?

Someone has to run this. It's good to be you and, and keep doing it. Let unfortunately dropped out.

You know what, let's put literally a lifetime into this stuff. And, and, but you could see he liked what he said is true. He gets more out of it than he puts into it.

And that's, that's really the beauty of this, um, that don't let his back just in time to say goodbye. Look at this. Don't tell him I said anything nice about him.

Um, but, you know, a great example of of of how we do this and why we do this. John, I'm gonna let you go And I just wanna thank everyone on this call here. Um, you know, TSIA, uh, JU does an amazing job of really coordinating all of this between 1700 applicants, many of them that message her directly on pretty much every channel she possibly has.

So, um, and, and all of our mentors do a great job. Um, you know, Tio, Tio and Divya, you're, you know, great ambassadors of this and have done an amazing amount of work and have just came back to give back. Um, and just really a call out to, you know, organizations.

You know, this is this, if anyone says there's a skill shortage in mainframe, I can attest that we have 1700 students that would say otherwise. 'cause there are interest out here. And if you're an organization that wants to learn how to tap more into this, come talk to me about membership.

Not that I'm being a bad salesperson, but seriously come here and say, Hey, the, because really the funding that we get is able, we are able to turn around and put into efforts like this here, so we can, we could get more, our number of applicants is ex is growing exponentially. Our number of mentees per year hasn't, and it's just honestly a funding thing. So the more that we can get, the better in there.

Thank you, Len, while you were gone, we didn't mention you at all, don't worry. But we did wanna say the last word for you, so why don't you close it out. Sure.

Um, again, Teso and Divya, thank you so much for being, uh, mentors and coming back to be mentor from, after being mentees. It's, uh, very commendable and to everybody that listens into this, especially organizations, if you're giving any thought to becoming a member, think of it this way. The membership fee that you would pay, it goes right back into the program to do a lot of good things, such as having an expansion to the mentorship program.

And, uh, so, and you benefit a lot out of it too. And it's almost like you can almost use this, uh, a mentee, a men, a mentorship of your own as a way to maybe get something done in a way that you wanna get done. And at the same time, it's getting funded, not by you, but by the Open Mainframe Project.

So you're killing multiple birds with the same stone here and really doing a good thing at the same time. And you benefit from a business perspective. We have done this a couple of times now, and, uh, uh, and now we are noticing some others that are doing it now that are in the program the last couple years, companies, and they, they said, Len, this is like the best kept secret out there for getting something done like this.

So, so thank you very much Alan for, uh, having me on your program again. It's always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to have you and Landon, you're a, you're a shining example of what people can do when they care.

Um, all right, we're gonna end this one on the Open Mainframe Project. We'll be back next month, I hope, with a great new, uh, cast and panel and subject around the Open Mainframe. But until then, this is Alan Shimmel for Techstrong.

And on behalf of John Murdoch and the rest of our panel and the Open Mainframe Project, thanks for watching everyone.