5G Factor: Rural, P5G, AI, and Security Wax, Episode 67

Hello and welcome everyone to the 5G Factor. I'm Ron Westfall, research director here at the Tuum Group, and I'm joined here today by my distinguished colleague, Tom Hollingsworth, the networking nerd and event lead at Tech Field Day here at The Future Group. In fact, I believe we're coming off a very successful set of, uh, field days, including mobility, tech Field Day, and at Dev Tech field days.

So we're both conducted over the last couple of weeks. Now, today we'll be focusing on major 5G ecosystem developments that have caught our eye, and that's including, for example, T-Mobile's acquisition of US Cellular's wireless operations, Nvidia kicking private 5G tires, and targeting the telco space and Fortinets network security proposition and its implications for the wireless and mobility spheres. And so with that, Tom, thank you again for joining us today.

I trust, uh, you've had an eventful last couple of weeks. Uh, anything to highlight? Uh, it's been a pretty busy couple of weeks.

Like you said, we, we did our Mobility Field Day event a couple weeks ago. I've gotten all the videos posted from that. I'm actually getting ready for Cisco Live, uh, which will be next week as of this recording, as you're probably listening to it, it'll be this week.

And there's a lot of great news. Uh, it's supposed to be, you know, a ball be 104 in Vegas. So I'm packing, uh, short sleeves because, uh, the, you know, Cisco lives weather isn't the only thing that's gonna be hot.

I'm sure there's gonna be some great news coming out of it, but we've already had a bevy of hot news this week. So, I mean, that's, that's something to definitely discuss. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, the show goes on.

Yeah, may and June are typically intensive and it seems more so than ever, uh, in the 5G space is, uh, no exception. And yes, uh, thank you for that plug on Cisco Live, uh, the Tech Field Day extra at the event. And also, um, shortly after that, there's Networking Field Day exclusive at HPE Discover in June.

So there's definitely plenty to look forward to, uh, that will also, you know, be, uh, part of our 5G Factor discussions. And so with that as promised, uh, let's look at that T Mobile deal involving US Cellular and, uh, any deal that involves multiple BS automatically warrants attention. And certainly the T-Mobile, uh, acquisition of US Cellular is, uh, no exception.

4 billion for the assets being inquired from US Cellular. And the transaction is basically combining cash along with Tmobile, assuming up to $2 billion in debt, uh, that they'll sue. So that I think was a sweetener that basically was, you know, the rationale for, you know, US cellular to go ahead and sell, you know, basically it's major wireless operations to T-Mobile and as a little additional foreground.

And there was speculation that there could have been a potential split that is, uh, T-Mobile acquiring about half the assets with presumably Verizon acquiring the other half. But that's a completely moot point that goes to show you where speculation can lead you to. And, uh, the bottom line is it's T-Mobile came out with the, uh, winning, uh, proposition, if you will.

And so that's really good news, uh, for, you know, certainly US cellular customers because now where they previously had limits of coverage, they'll now have the benefit of really, basically performance that is now nationwide because, uh, clearly part of the deal is that T-Mobile I will be gaining US Cellular spectrum. And so that will definitely be integrated into, you know, the overall nationwide T-Mobile network. And that includes also really, uh, the, uh, cutting edge, I think 5G standalone network that's been implemented in terms of a time to market advantage.

But specifically, let's look at a couple of the key details. Uh, what is happening is that T-Mobile will acquire about 30% of all of USS wireless spectrum with U US LA retaining 4,400 owned towers and approximately 70% of its wireless spectrum portfolio. Now, what this is also allowing is that T-Mobile will sign new long-term leases on at least 2015 US cellular owned towers and extend leasing on about 600 others.

Now, uh, T-Mobile is expecting the transaction will yield approximately $1 billion in opex and CapEx annual run rate costs, synergies upon naturally the completion of, of the integration of, you know, the respective assets. Now, what I'm anticipating is that because of this deal, Verizon and a t and t, well they need to start, uh, planning on really how to counter, you know, the T-Mobile US cellular deal, particularly in areas such as price adjustments to existing and new service plans, as well as spectrum optimization related to serving rural customers, at least, you know, within the US cellular footprint. Now, uh, both operators that is Verizon and at t are focused heavily on debt reduction.

However, this deal shows that, uh, there's plenty going on in terms of the competitive mix. And this is definitely gonna, I think, inject a new competitive dynamic within certainly the US mobile and wireless market. And I think what's also a key takeaway is that through this deal, the additional capacity and coverage generated by the combination of the T-Mobile in the US cellular spectrum and wireless asset assets can really stimulate that competition that I touched on, particularly when it comes to wireless services that underserved rural areas.

And I think that's something that has been top of mind, certainly with, you know, the US policy making decision makers. That is, you know, how can we assure that nobody's left behind when it comes to certainly broadband coverage. And I think, uh, it's also, uh, related specifically to, you know, society-wide imperatives to reduce the digital divide and certainly rural areas come to mind, uh, because of, you know, the density coverage challenges that are understood.

It's a lot of it's basic physics, but also I think this deal is demonstrating that hey, there are ways to improve, uh, the coverage to improve the plans to inject more competition so that rural, uh, customers at least will have, you know, simply more choice and how they can improve their broadband connectivity at where they live. And so, yeah, that's a, a basic, uh, introduction of, uh, the key aspects of the deal. But what else, uh, Tom do you see about the deal that's intriguing and what are the implications for, you know, the 5G ecosystem?

Well, We talked about this this week on the gestalt it rundown when we just had a, you know, few quick minutes to discuss it right after the deal came out. I thought one of the things that was the most interesting is, is when you break down the details Mm-Hmm. They bought the customer base and they bought the brick and mortar store locations.

They, they are renting time on US cellular towers with some long-term leases and things like that. And of course, there was the usual chatter about, you know, well, this reduces competition in the market, therefore it must be bad. And of course, we're still waiting for it to pass all the, the monopoly stuff like that, but I'm pretty sure it will because this is the third largest, um, company.

This isn't like at and t buying them. I think what's interesting is this is where T-Mobile thinks the growth is gonna be. They want customers, they don't necessarily care about technology.

They feel their network is pretty well built out at this point. So what they're looking for is they, they're expanding into those rural areas. And one of the reasons why this has been such a difficult area for companies to expand into is because of the infrastructure, like you mentioned.

I mean, go pull up the at t coverage map, go pull up the Verizon coverage map, and you'll see lots of of colored dots around major thoroughfares, right? Interstates and highways and stuff like that. And then you'll see these huge chunks of area that are just kind of bereft of coverage.

And those are usually in the more rural areas, you have to make a big investment in order to make those pay off from an infrastructure perspective. And a lot of companies have been hesitant to do that until they get to the point where there are no more customers in the other areas. I mean, I I I had to say we're saturated, but I mean, is there a place where you can go very few places that you can go where you don't have coverage from the top two or top three vendors?

And I think that's what T-Mobile is basically saying, because right now they're letting the acquisition of those customers, they can stay on their US cellular plans or they can move over to T-Mobile. I think the plan from T-Mobile is to move those customers over to the T-Mobile billing system, the T-Mobile towers and everything like that. They're gonna rent out space from US Cellular for the time being until they can get those customers transitioned over, then I think you're gonna start seeing those agreements being curtailed.

You might think for yourself, oh, well that's a bad thing for us cellular, because then that means that their largest customers going away. No. What it does mean though, is that now that US Cellular is not, um, forced to kind of keep up with the Joneses when it comes to cellular coverage for customers and things like that, they can build up their network and become a neutral host.

And I think that that's something that a lot of people are kind of missing from this. T-Mobile didn't buy all of US Cellular. They bought the parts of US cellular that they needed to grow to compete against at and t and Verizon.

What T-Mobile's getting out of this obviously is revenue. What US Cellular is getting out of this is they're getting rid of the whiny parts of the network, and they're allowed to grow and kind of basically become a, um, armed dealer, for lack of a better term, in those difficult to cover rural areas. Because now, like you said, if Verizon a couple years from now says, man, we really need to build our presence in, you know, Western North Carolina or somewhere else in the south where we don't have a lot of good area, A company like US Cellular could step forward and go, well, we're operating the infrastructure down there and for a, um, small fee, we will let you kind of ride on our towers.

And I think that that is super valuable to a large provider who is not ready to make that capital outlay just yet. Now, that remains to be seen as to whether or not T-Mobile doesn't just decide to buy what's left of the cellular, if, if they're happy with the way that the customer, um, acquisition is gone. But I think that we're gonna see a little bit more of a transition in the market towards those ideas where you have the big carriers and then you have some smaller carriers that are effectively supporting them from a neutral host perspective.

Yeah, excellent. Uh, points, and I agree, Tom, I think, yeah, the neutral host dimension has been, uh, uh, not appreciated enough. And yes, you know, there were 2 billion reasons in terms of debt relief for US Cellular to commit, uh, to this deal.

But I think it's, uh, also instructive, uh, that, uh, when it comes to, you know, the competitive mix, uh, this is something that will probably stimulate it. The initial, I think, take was, oh, okay, this is more consolidation and that this is something that, um, you will get, you know, more than the usual regulatory scrutiny. But I think T-Mobile did a pretty good job of explaining, you know, why, uh, that is not going to be the case because, uh, again, that rural challenge, and also I, I think it's, uh, worth noting that when it comes at least to the US uh, carrier market, uh, at least the mobile, uh, uh, wireless, uh, service providers, is that, you know, we're going through a CapEx dial back.

Uh, basically CapEx spending, uh, anticipated for this year will be about 2017 levels. And so this is a far cry from just two years ago when CapEx spending was significantly higher. And, and I think this is the type of consolidation play that can, you know, again, uh, you know, keep, uh, the others on their toes, but also quite simply improve T-Mobile's, uh, position.

As you know, basically the operators are taking a bit of a breather in terms of CapEx plans at least. And so we'll see, you know, how this will play out. But I think, uh, that we're not going to see a return to say, uh, levels of just two, three years ago over the next couple years at least.

And so stay tuned. I think we'll see more of these types of moves. Uh, again, you know, the consolidation, uh, you know, being able to leverage, uh, assets from another party in order to expand and diversify coverage.

And with that in mind, let's look at another player that is not having issues so much with, you know, what customer's willing to spend on their product. And that is, uh, Nvidia. And the reason why I'm looking at Nvidia is really twofold.

I think, you know, we talked about them before, uh, but I think, uh, what's interesting is that now they're kicking the tires on private 5G. And what is going on is that they recently received approval from the FCC to build out a private 5G standalone network at its Santa Clara California headquarters, uh, to really test its implementation. Uh, with right now unnamed o ran vendors, although we can deduce who they likely are, but for now, let's look at what's going on.

I think what's important here is that Nvidia is getting on that private, uh, 5G bandwagon, and that, I think is demonstrating that there's a lot of high profile momentum going on in this market segment that I think will help again, reignite, uh, more spending in this, uh, specific segment. Uh, and what we've seen in terms of high profile, uh, deployments are, uh, organizations like Tesla, John Deere, uh, Lu Tanza, Technik, and NC, basically doing their own implementations. And what I think is interesting is, Lisa, when you looked at, uh, Luton's te uh, implementation is that, uh, basically at their Hamburg facility, they needed, uh, basically the civil aviation customers to, uh, have a way to attend servicing by using really a highly reliable high resolution video, uh, for, you know, virtual parts inspection and borescope examinations and, you know, really for, you know, engine overhaul, uh, workshops and other, you know, important tasks.

And, uh, what I think is interesting that they attempted to use virtual inspections with wifi or at least, you know, unlicensed wifi, but that didn't meet their specific needs, partly because of large metal structures. And I think this is a prime example of where, okay, you know, private 5G can address these specific needs and, you know, large, you know, sites with, you know, lots of industrial requirements or, you know, manufacturing so forth. But, uh, you can bet they're also using wifi, you know, for example, in their OT environments and so forth.

Now, what I am, uh, looking at in terms of how is this adding momentum, well, I think as of Q2 that we are seeing, there are about 2,200 private ng uh, private, uh, 5G installations, uh, worldwide. And that's also being accompanied by cage expectations that are double digit over the next three years. So the fact that NVIDIA is, you know, testing it out just I think gives more validity to the private 5G use case.

But yeah, there's more, NVIDIA is also targeting the telco space and has, you know, really invested some development effort and also marketing effort in this regard. And, uh, so what we're seeing is that they, um, when it comes to portfolio development, that the Grace Hopper chip is designed to really multitask in a way that purposely supports new AI applications at the edge as well as supporting RAN software. And I think, uh, this is specific to really energizing the I iot and the Metaverse, uh, use case out there that can include naturally digital twins.

And we heard, I think, a good deal about digital twins at mobility, uh, field Day, for example. And I'm anticipating that this is really, you know, how NVIDIA can inject itself into the competitive mix versus, you know, the already crowded market in terms of, you know, why use Nvidia chip sets for specific, you know, RAN capabilities. Well, we also saw earlier this year at NWC Barcelona that they are a major backer, the AI ran alliance.

And what's inevitable here is that also includes, you know, ran vendors such as Ericsson, Nokia, and Samsung, as well as ARM plus, you know, major carriers such as, uh, T-Mobile and SoftBank. And what I think is interesting is that SoftBank is already investing in NVIDIA's GPUs for its, uh, network in Japan at least. And I am really, uh, interested in how the, uh, the demo work is coming along between Nvidia, Juniper, Fujitsu, and SoftBank.

Because what we've seen is that Fujitsu is highlighting substantial performance gains for its 5G radios by pairing them with Nvidia Grace Hopper technology. And so, you know, stay tuned. Uh, this I think will be an interesting competitive dynamic and that, you know, the other, uh, players out there cannot rest on laurels.

Uh, that is, yes, Nvidia definitely has some homework to do in terms of getting more prominence within the telco space specifically, but I think, uh, these are some interesting, uh, yet promising signs. And so Tom, you know, from your view, what is going on in terms of AI and its impact on the 5G uh, ecosystem, let alone, you know, NVIDIA's ongoing moves here? I think Nvidia really is looking for an outlet for more of this increased capacity that they're making.

I mean, okay, yeah, go try to buy some of the Grace Hopper stuff or some of the new, uh, units that they released. You know, the ones that have to be water cooled and need a nuclear power plant to operate. And I think what you'll find is, is that Nvidia really, really wants to get this out here.

They really want to have a market for all of these chips that they're manufacturing. They want their GPUs and their tus and all this other stuff everywhere. And what better way to do that in the telco space than to prove that you can run o ran on top of their hardware?

Because the whole value behind O RAN is getting away from these legacy proprietary hardware products that require, you know, specialized knowledge to run. I don't want manage that environment. I don't want to have to like read the tea leaves to figure out whether or not the, the devices in my base station are working or not.

I want hardware that is reliable, that is provable. And you know, beyond a couple of years ago, we probably would've thought that would've been a traditional server from a traditional server manufacturer running an X 86 architecture. But as we've seen in the last three, four years, there is a real push for ARM-based architectures to be able to run pretty much any workload.

Anyone who's bought a mobile device or an Apple laptop in the last three years knows the push to get arm in as many places as possible. And we've seen it in AWS as well. I mean, graviton is an AWS based arm core that a lot more people are starting to write for.

So what Nvidia is gonna do is they're gonna come out and they're gonna do all this heavy duty testing, and they're gonna prove that O ran runs on their stuff, and then they're gonna go to the vendors and they're gonna be like, well, you know, we can run O ran and you are already gonna buy stuff from us anyway. Why not buy more stuff? Install it in your, you know, edge locations program it, so that O ran runs on top of it.

Oh, by the way, since it's already there, you have the world class AI stack running at the edge, and you can start doing more AI related build out there. And this is something that they talked about all the way back in January. They started talking about, uh, I believe it was AI networking for telcos, and they're trying to increase that footprint out there at the edge because they know they've got the data center locked up.

And I think they have about 3 trillion reasons why they can prove that. But eventually, as we talked about in the previous story, you hit a saturation point, there are only so many more people you can sell to, especially when you're having to chunk out 70 kilowatts per half rack of equipment and, and plumb your data center more to be able to cool it. So now they're looking to, to prove that the software stack of the future runs out there.

Because if you're gonna have to replace your stuff, if you're gonna have to gut it and you're gonna have to go with new, um, technology, why not get the biggest, baddest thing you can find? And if it just so happens to run o ran, which means now I have a valid reason for doing it under this CapEx budget and I can get all these functionalities that everybody wants with all this AI inferencing on the edge and stuff like that, that's a win-win. But it's a win-win win-win for Nvidia because then they get to push more products, they get to get more embedded into the ecosystem.

And if the heavens fall and the bubble pops and suddenly not everybody needs an AI inferencing super cluster, well, we've still got this other business that we can fall back on. While we try to, you know, rearrange what we're doing, and this is something that Nvidia has done over the years. They weren't always a titan in the industry.

There was a time when they were not doing so hot until they figured out how to flip their GPUs away from just being video game graphics processing units into full blown compute core systems. So I wouldn't bet against Nvidia right here they're onto something and I'm very curious to see what happens. Yeah, and those are excellent points, Tom, because I think, you know, arm, you know, part of the AI ran alliance is I think going to have, you know, more ongoing interest because to your point, uh, they've been able to provide energy efficient designs, you know, on the handset side.

Now as we know, there's different challenges on the infrastructure ran side of, uh, things. However, uh, this is something that I think will keep, you know, uh, the, uh, uh, the tire kicking, if you will for, you know, y arm in terms of, you know, this part of, uh, the overall space. And also I think, uh, had an excellent point about, you know, Nvidia, you know, in terms of its, you know, uh, prior success in, uh, for example, the, uh, video gaming arena.

And part of that is they have really, um, a robust, uh, ecosystem in place that includes, you know, being able to work with developers, working with those, you know, OEM partners and so forth. And quite simply, they'll need to emulate that when it comes to, uh, you know, certainly the, uh, the ran segment. And so the bottom line is the AI ran alliance will hopefully expand in terms of membership and so forth.

And so that some of these, you know, fundamental channel issues as well as, you know, the nuts and bolts of being able to more easily integrate Nvidia technology can, you know, commence in a smoother way. Nvidia knows that, but it's still, again, it's about, you know, executing and seeing how that will play out. And, well, speaking of, you know, important dimensions to the, uh, mobile ecosystem, and that is security.

And I think this is something that is always, uh, present, but I think it needs a shout out because again, we've seen, you know, some security issues crop up, for example, with Google Cloud, uh, and that is something that Fortinet, uh, specifically, uh, does have certainly portfolio acumen and reputation in that regard. And what they did was they recently spotlighted their longstanding commitment to, uh, transparency as a early signer of the secure by design pledge that was developed by the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, or cisa. Now, SSA's latest initiatives strongly aligns to Fortinets existing product development processes, and thus they're already based on, you know, the secure by design and secure, uh, by default principles.

And what this means is that Fortinet is committed to adhering to security scrutiny at all stages of the product development lifecycle. And this is something we don't hear enough about. I know in the past we've seen that this is where a massive security breach can occur is during the product building itself.

And that's the last thing anybody needs out there, certainly a security focused vendor. And, uh, so it supports, you know, importance, uh, dimensions like security, product testing, uh, trusted supplier program, information security program, and third party certification. So this is all coming together alongside secure product development lifecycle capabilities or SB DLC, yet another acronym for our industry to, uh, remember.

But I think what's, uh, very important is that from my view, this helps anchor the insights that were provided by the Fortinet presenters. That is Alex Bazar, Chris Hins, uh, Matt Bullock, and Samantha, uh, Gora Johnson at the Mobility Field Day that, uh, was just, uh, conducted recently. And as a result, I thought that the Fortinet Cybersecurity solutions came across as really being able to help customers intelligently defend across, you know, the extent, uh, the expanding attack surface out there.

And, uh, uh, key to this is the Fort Anette, uh, security fabric that can deliver capabilities key to meeting, you know, these, uh, critical security challenges. And it's across all the major domains or all the domains that any organization is going to be interested in. That is the networking application cloud and mobile environments.

Really, you need a security fabric that accounts for all of this. No more of this piecemeal, you know, domain by domain security implementation will be tolerable, uh, certainly today, but let alone, you know, into the future. And so what this is doing is that the Fortinet platform is combining unified SASE security operations, secure Networking, uh, really is addressing and protecting the entire tax surface alongside, you know, integration ease with the existing infrastructure.

I think that is, uh, another key selling point. Nobody's going to, wants to rip out, you know, existing infrastructure in order to accommodate a new, uh, security implementation. And so, uh, that definitely applies to the wireless IMP implementations out there, whereas we know wifi security is still a persistent concern.

And so with that, uh, certainly Tom, uh, you were, uh, MCing, you know, the event and, uh, the Fortinet, uh, session certainly. And what was your impression about, you know, why Fortinet when it comes to network security, especially across, uh, wireless and mobility environments? We talk all the time about companies that say they have security in their DNA, but I mean, Fortinet really does, I was using Fortinet firewalls 20 years ago back before they had letters after the names, back when it was just like the 48 200.

And they have been working on this for a long time. They've been building a secure system. They've been, uh, you know, working with, uh, companies out there to, you know, be able to identify threats more quickly and, and have systems that are, um, you know, that lock down easily and, and those kinds of things.

That's not to say they don't have their share of bugs. Everybody has a share of bugs. And yes, they've had some recently that have not been so great, but the thing is that they're, they're making the attempt, they're trying, and that the announcement that came out was as much about showing people that they're serious about this because what is the one way that you can prove to the people out there that you are taking se security seriously?

How, let 'em have a look. Come on in, let's, let's show you, let's open it up and you can see what it is. I believe in the, in the press release, it quoted radical transparency, which it feels like it's a little bit over the top, but they're trying to conform to the, the cisas, you know, secure by design principles, which I look, I'm tired of people bolting security onto things after the fact.

Oh yeah, well, let's just get it running and then eventually we'll figure out how to make it run over SSL because it, it can be that hard, right? Oh, it, it most certainly can. And we've seen that with a number of companies.

I mean, Fortinet has a big SD WAN presence. I don't recall them having an issue with a security certificate expiring and forcing a whole bunch of their devices to just randomly shut off one day. Not that that's happened to somebody else last year, maybe.

No, it's, they're, they're looking at it and they understand why security is a critical building block of everything going forward. And you might say to yourself, well, other companies are really good and they have a wireless first mentality. Well, that's great, and what's gonna happen after that new wireless chip comes out?

And what's gonna happen after those new location services come out? You still have to go back to the basics, right? You still have to go back to things like security.

You still have to go back to things like user experience. And if those are bad because you were so focused on the technology, you forgot to figure out how to integrate it with everything else, then your users are gonna make you pay for it. And I think that that is one of the reasons why Fortinet has always stood out is okay, they're not on the super bleeding edge of everything, but I would rather get to the bleeding edge a little fa a little slower with a little bit more security than just throw things out there, hope they kind of work, be a draft spec or, or what have you, and then have to come back in later and fix it.

So, you know, Bravo to Chris and Simone and all the guys there. They're, they're taking the product development perspective with a healthy dose of we need to still make sure that our users are protected. And some days you just don't get that from a lot of other people in the industry.

Yeah, those are all excellent points. And a again, I think I find it refreshing when others are zigging, uh, basically Fortinet zagged. And that is, you know, let's look at the fundamentals here.

It's about can we actually assure you that our, uh, products are secure from, you know, the inception phase all the way through, you know, the entire life cycle. And this is something that I think is like kind of a return to fundamentals, you know, the blocking tackling is being taken care of. And I think, yeah, uh, to your point, it's like, you know, the fragmented security implementations out there are, uh, an ongoing legacy issue.

They're not easy to fix, but Fortinet does actually for provide a path forward and without, you know, having risky disruption being part of that, you know, transition. And so that I think is something that will be a key differentiator because yes, having wireless security is fundamental, and having say a capability like unified SSE is important, but, you know, guess what? All the other vendors out there are gonna make those same claims, but can they take it to that next level?

IE we can assure that that wireless security is going to be aligned, administered, and you know, basically in full adhesion, in accordance with the security that has to be implemented in the cloud, the security that has to be in other parts of the network. IE now how cohesive is it? And this is where I think Fortinet really, uh, can make some more headway, not just in the, uh, the wireless sphere, but also across, you know, the overall networking market.

And so with that, thank you all again for joining our conversation and certainly, uh, thank you again Tom for, uh, hopping on again. You know, we have some exciting tech field days on the horizon here. We do, we're gonna be at Cisco Live.

Uh, we have Cloud Field Day coming up, which is, uh, the second week of June. Then we are of course gonna be at Networking Field Day exclusive at HPE Discover with our friends from HPE Aruba Networking. com.

You can catch the lineup of all the things we're that we've got going on. I mean, I'm not even telling you about some of the other cool stuff. Like we're gonna be at click connect next week.

Um, we've got some other interesting things coming up. Of course, we have a networking field day coming up in July. com, look down the list, mark your favorite things.

We'll have calendar invites. You're not gonna miss anything, I promise you. Yeah, that is certainly important.

And then I know I'm looking forward to all of it, but also in particular, networking field Day since, you know, uh, being in person is always I think, uh, helpful and also don't forget to bookmark, uh, 5G Factor. Uh, I think, uh, this is something, uh, that will become increasingly important, uh, because of the very topics we discussed today, and AI is certainly part of that. And with that, everyone have a great 5G and AI day, and until next time.