5G Factor: Private 5G Kindling, Episode 65

Hello and welcome everyone to the 5G Factor. I'm Ron Westfall, research director here at the Futureum Group, and I'm joined here today by my distinguished colleague, Olivier Blanchard, our research director focused on key areas such as devices and semiconductors, including 5G naturally. And today we'll be focusing on the major 5G ecosystem developments that have caught our eye, and that includes specifically recent private 5G developments, especially as I relate to what we can describe as a market reality check.

And so with that, Olivier, welcome back to the 5G Factor. Always great to see you. It's my favorite part of the week to, uh, for us to get on and talk about all things 5G how have you been bearing up between episodes?

You know, it's just the, the weeks just fly by. It seems like that was just here yesterday. Indeed, yes.

I, I know we had like a, a one week hiatus, but we're back. And, uh, also, uh, I would be remiss not to say Happy Blade birthday by one day only. I trust, uh, you had a, a decent birthday.

Thank you. Yeah, I did. It's, uh, it's always fun.

I survived another one, so we're good. Well, well, amen. I, I can certainly, uh, relate to that.

And with that, I think we can dive right in. Um, as we saw that recently, the Hanover Mess Show occurred over at Hanover, and that's basically the global, uh, trade fair for industry technology and innovation. And at this event, Cisco's next gen workforce collaboration with Cisco Private 5G proposition stood out to us.

And why? Well, first of all, Cisco understands fundamentally that for private 5G to advance ecosystem wide collaboration is truly needed. And that, I think, fully aligns with our view.

I think, uh, we've been talking about this for quite some time, that, you know, in order for not just 5G, but specifically private 5G as a standout use case needs, uh, this ecosystem wide collaboration. However, it's easier said than done. So what is Cisco doing that is distinct and different about, you know, working with partners, uh, to make private 5G all the more widely available?

Well, first of all, it's working with Augmenter, Nokia, and Logus and bolstering the Cisco Mobility Services platform's, well, deployment flexibility. And so the platform, uh, is designed to increase the value of mobile services by making them more accessible and programmable. And I think inherently that's understood, but it's going to require this type of collaboration to make it really take off.

And this I think is going to be, uh, helpful to understand what is making up, you know, the, uh, platform itself. Well, it includes a combination of Augmenter, Cisco WebEx, expert on demand, and Cisco Private 5G, which are all combined together to redefine automation and workforce efficiency and industrial operations. So naturally, this is a fit for the Hanover Show.

Now, augmenter provides an AI-based connected worker platform that can enhance the capabilities of frontline workforces through personalized and adaptive guidance. And I think we understand this is very important for things like personal safety or workforce safety and things, uh, that are that important. Plus, Cisco WebEx expert on demand delivers remote collaboration, enabling experts to guide and assist field workers in real time through immersive experiences.

And this, I think is, you know, the moment is really arriving. We've been hearing a great deal about, okay, 5G can enable these, you know, new capabilities, uh, that could be described as augmented reality could be described as, uh, virtual reality and so forth. And strangely enough, a lot of it focused on the consumer side, but I think it's actually on the enterprise side, certainly in industrial environments, that we can actually really see this, uh, technology make tangible progress.

And, uh, to that end, what it's doing is that allows, uh, experts to do that assisting, but it's really about the implementation of the Cisco Mobility service platform. And here this is where we see Nick Nokia providing the RAN infrastructure necessary for the deployment of advanced connectivity, as well as log deploying the solution at the customer side itself, serving as a critical integration partner. Now, MASU Mirror, the senior vice president, general manager for Cisco Networking's provider mobility business, observed in a recent blog that this integration of technology promises to elevate operational efficiency by enabling workers to receive instantaneous support and guidance.

For example, remote specialists can use Cisco WebEx expert on demand to connect with onsite employees offering live interactive guidance using AR powered visuals. So I kind of built up like, yes, here we are seeing a tangible way for AR to actually make a difference, and it's relying on private 5G technology fundamentally. And this I think, reinforces my perspective that a true platform based approach is going to be vital to modernizing mobile services in terms of, you know, both the integration and delivery certainly when it comes to private 5G.

Now, this approach can enable rapid service development through flexible business models, as well as quite simply democratizing IOT and connectivity, while allowing all stakeholders to deliver quite simply value that is improving business outcomes for organizations. And to further reinforce this point, Bob Everson, the senior director of mobile architecture and ecosystem at Cisco advocates, that the 5G ecosystem must begin with the end customer in mind, IE the enterprise, the organization. Now enterprises, I believe clearly see digital transformation as their goal and not adopting a specific technology.

And I think we're hearing this a great deal. Uh, we've been on many conversations where you ask the typical employee, they might not know what the wifi spectrum is being used on that device, you know, what type of 5G spectrum is being implemented to enable, you know, some of their smart device, uh, capabilities. It's all about the experience.

IE what is the problem that could be solved by using private 5G? And in that blog, Bob notes that they need simple unified solutions that provide seamless, secure connectivity while supporting value added services for people, places, and things. And I concur that this is even more con, uh, crucial in contemporary AI driven landscape, which requires more data from increasing number of devices and facilities as well as the development of countless applications.

And iot certainly comes to mind. Uh, we, I think, know that AI is gonna play a critical role in all this, not only in terms of automation of these capabilities, but also quite simply using gen ai, uh, features, uh, allow say, you know, the, uh, frontline workforces to be able to use information that, again, is immediate and can definitely aid them in terms of being in a more safe and efficient work environment. So I think that really tees it up.

And, uh, with all that information in hand, Olivier, from your perspective, what do you see that really stands out about, you know, Cisco's private pri, uh, 5G proposition, including the Cisco Mobility service platform? Right. Well, I mean, I, I guess you know, first off, Cisco, um, just putting their eggs in that basket is, is definitely a, a, a good signal to the market.

Um, that, that there's a, there's an actual model there, and it, and honestly, like I've been at a lot of meetings where that's still been a question, uh, up until recently. So, you know, like 5G private, 5G networks are great, but, um, why not just use wifi, right? And, and in some instances it can be a little bit easier, some others not.

Um, for, for me, the, the, the sort of, you know, low hanging fruit of the, the private 5G networks is, you know, security, right? Or enhanced security rather. Um, it's more bandwidth, it's, it's more uptime, less lag.

Um, and so if if you have a very automated, very connected facility, then the private 5G networks makes sense. There's, there's one, there's a point where, you know, wifi is great, but it's not gonna really deliver what, what you need it to. Uh, so I don't think it's, it's necessarily the most universally well adapted model, at least from a cost standpoint.

Uh, so there, there's still kind of like this, this tug of war between, you know, should I use wifi, should I use a private, uh, 5G network? Um, but like, I, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm a little bit curious about the focus on ar, honestly, and I'm, I'm all in with ar and obviously in industrial applications for augmented reality and mixed reality are kind of obvious. We've, we've seen really good developments and really good solutions come forward, and we understand, I think, um, what the value of that is.

But I'm, I'm still kind of, you know, I have questions. Well, I was listening to you and the, and I read the, the, the release before, before the, the today's episode, and it, to me, it, it sounded a little bit like word soup, right? It's just like, throw a bunch of stuff at the wall, let's talk about ar, let's talk about ai, let's talk about services.

But it's still not super clear to me anyways, um, what this actually looks like. And, and I don't know if it's just sort of like, we can do anything you want. We have this investment, we have the solutions, so we're gonna throw all these keywords in there, and then the ones that resonate with you, the customer, those are the ones that we can talk about.

Or if there's just something that I'm missing with, uh, with this release, I dunno, it just, it seems a little, a little vague and broad, and I'm sorry I'm usually not contrarian on, on this, but, Uh, no problem at all. In fact, you know, that's part of, you know, uh, the, uh, value of the conversation. And, and I think, uh, to, you know, help, uh, clarify, you know, what are, you know, the use cases.

And I think we certainly see that in, you know, huge industrial sites, you know, like, uh, large manufacturing facilities, mining, you know, where there's outdoor capabilities that are clearly required such as, uh, energy exploration, right? Also comes to mind. So, uh, to your point about wifi, that is not going to cut it.

And so that's why we're seeing really a increasing blending of wifi and private 5G that can clearly coexist. And I think that reinforces, you know, why private 5G and why, you know, the Cisco, uh, proposition, because clearly Cisco can address both needs. I know I'm seeing, uh, more orchestration and administration of both technologies.

Now, it'll be a while before they're actually physically integrated on, say, a common ship set or a common devices, uh, but that, you know, that's further down the line potentially. But in the meantime, this is solving that, you know, real problem. I think it's also helpful to look at the, the verticals.

I touched on two of them, but certainly where housing and logistics, uh, come to mind. And it goes back to that point about, you know, outdoor capabilities, matching indoor capabilities, but also quite simply, mobility is going to be required and private 5G can certainly play a critical role there. But I think, you know, to the point about ar, uh, I know it's been over hyped and there's been some disappointment, and that I think applies to, you know, the overall 5G market being overhyped a few years back.

And so it's been a bit of a casualty, but I think what, um, I would like to reemphasize is that, uh, ar and industrial settings can have more real world traction and, uh, benefit. And that, you know, ranges from things that are, uh, for example, digital twin simulations or digital twin capabilities, I should say, as well as again, uh, uh, uh, and reinforcing workforce safety. And I think that's one that is going to resonate because, uh, there's certainly governments that are, uh, prioritizing that, that's common sense.

But also, you know, in industrial organizations, uh, know that that's simply a top priority. How can we make, uh, these environments quite simply all the more safer and thus, you know, avoid liability and also, you know, uh, align more effectively with those regulations. So hopefully that, uh, addresses, you know, why, you know, this, uh, announcement or what is different about this, uh, proposition from Cisco.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, you know, Cisco coming in is, uh, they're, they're gonna come in with a complete solution.

And, um, and it's, it's, it's good to see them commit to this because, um, it, there's, it proves that there's, there's a business model there that is scalable and that addresses the enterprise. Um, and I feel like, I guess with, especially with ai, you know, we've talked about ai, we always talk about ai. 'cause we, we, we have to.

What else? What else is there? Um, with, with ai, there's, and, and smart automation, there's an incredible amount of data being collected all the time.

And I'm, I'm just thinking about, you know, whether it's religious center, a distribution center, manufacturing, you're following individual parts around the factory. So it's like, it, it's a crazy amount of data. And so you need that bandwidth and you need that, that as little latency as possible.

And, and I think that's where, and you don't need, with, with a five private, 5G network, you don't have that many handshakes. You don't have to have, you know, wifi repeaters everywhere. Um, and so it, it makes sense with a, a large scale operation, the larger, the better that, uh, that 5G would, would come in.

Um, uh, extremely, extremely handy. My question, um, about all this, and I just occurred to me, I, I wonder if a private 5G network is more ecologically friendly, if it's more energy efficient than a, a, a very extended wifi network, uh, in, in the same sort of use case. And I don't know that, but I would, I would assume that the private 5G network might be actually more power efficient.

Yes, I would say it, it does depend on, you know, the context and the environment. However, yes, you know, the, uh, private 5G capabilities are, uh, controlled and as a result, uh, there's more, I guess you can say authority over how to implement it and, you know, uh, more fully align it with, uh, energy efficiency, uh, mandates and so forth. And, uh, but that's not to say that wifi is also making progress.

I think what we're gonna see, again, is that both of them coexisting and that they'll be both, you know, counted as the overall energy footprint for, you know, that organization. In some cases, the private 5G implementation can come in better on a, say, per bit weight, uh, basis on a, on a watts aggregate basis. But I think it's, um, it's reinforcing, uh, to your point that it's really requiring a platform approach to really accommodate all these different factors, the security, the energy efficiency, the spectrum optimization.

And that is actually gonna be touched on in our next two segments. And I think, you know, that, uh, you have an excellent point there, Olivia, about the mobile edge that's really, you know, going to be integral to any private 5G implementation about, you know, having the data process much closer to the source and thus, you know, gaining all of these inherent efficiencies on operational side, on the business side. And I think that definitely is going to help lift, you know, the private 5G use cases, and we'll see that in terms of, you know, who is actually, you know, making, uh, some moves to make it happen.

And with that in mind, let's segue to, all right, who out there is looking at private 5G and is, you know, raising, uh, awareness across the ecosystem? Well, how about Tesla? Uh, for example, we saw them just constructing private 5G network at its factory in Berlin, and that it plans to really deploy the technology globally.

So, you know, Berlin is, you know, the incubation, if you will, uh, for proving out the private 5G implementation and let's then distribute it to other, uh, Tesla facilities. Now, Tesla disclosed, uh, that officials at the company's gigafactory in Berlin, uh, are noting that the network there supports, you know, low latency connections and can work both indoors and outdoors. And we touched on that point, why private 5G again, the great outdoors aligning with the great indoors, and now the outdoor coverage is critical.

And according to Tesla, this is gonna allow them to update hundreds of cars outside without having to run fiber and power to outdoor locations. So, you know, what's not to like, this is, you know, made to order for a private 5G implementation quite simply. Now, uh, however, it's important to note that the details of the deployment, such as the, you know, the vendors that are supplying it, uh, the actual spectrum being used, and, you know, other details that'd be interesting, like operational parameters are not available yet, but, uh, Tesla is, uh, really looking at ways to, you know, make this work for them.

And I think this is going to again, raise private five G's profile as a result. Now, from your perspective, uh, Olivier, what about this, you know, Tesla private 5G implementation that is going to stand out for you? Well, you know, I mean, it's, first of all, it, it hasn't been confirmed, right?

We, it's, it's low on details. So, you know, here we are in Tesla's world with, you know, not, not necessarily having all the, uh, all the information that we need. Um, but no, it's, it, it just kind of like echoes the, the first part of this, uh, this episode's conversation about, um, you know, the digital transformation and manufacturing, uh, and then, and logistics.

So it's, you know, a, an operation like a giga factory is extremely complex, uh, just like a, you know, perhaps not like an Amazon distribution center, but I'm, I'm assuming it's still fairly complex and it just makes sense if you're using top end technology and collecting a lot of data, capturing a lot of data, uh, automating a lot of your processes and, and having a lot of moving parts and inventory hardware and software, it, it makes sense to just sort of streamline the process in your technologies and eliminate the headaches where you can and be as efficient as possible. And, and one of the things about Tesla is, uh, so on, on the one hand, they want, they like to move fast. So, uh, I think that a, a private 5G network helps them do that, or at least that's, that would be, I guess part of the ROI of, of switching to that model.

Um, but, but the other one too is, is Tesla likes to be really streamlined when it comes to costs, right? And so there must be, I think, a cost benefit analysis, uh, with this to see if, if a private 5G network really does not just make them move faster, but also save money in the process, uh, in terms of operational costs and, and operational efficiency. And, and my guess is, we'll, we'll have more details about what's going on once Tesla has initial signs that, um, that they're on their track with that choice.

And then obviously if it's a pilot, um, we could very well see that, um, expand to all of their other factories for manufacturing facilities. Now on, on the updates of vehicles outside, unless it's proprietary technology, I mean, like OTA updates over the air updates can happen with any 5G network. Um, and it can happen at the charging stations.

So it's not necessarily something that, um, I would prioritize in, in my list of needs, uh, if I'm, you know, if, if I'm Tesla at the, at the factory to try to, you know, update software of vehicles sitting outside, um, definitely doesn't hurt. But, uh, I think there, there are other ways of doing that. I think it's more about that efficiency inside.

Yeah, Yeah, fair points. And as we know, yeah, Tesla is, you know, going through the process of, you know, optimizing, uh, business operations. And, uh, so I think that that private 5G is being recruited to, you know, advance that initiative, uh, is, you know, a, a, a clear side that it does have role.

And I think, yeah, to the point about OTA over the air, uh, updates and so forth, uh, it could very well be that there is a security issue here for, you know, when the vehicles are being, uh, you know, built and versus once they're sold and you know, out, uh, in the wild out in the public. And, uh, and so stay tuned. I mean, that's a, it's a legitimate point.

The details are sparse, but we're definitely gonna be intrigued about how this progresses and how Tesla quite simply, you know, communicates, uh, how they're using it. I'll add one more thing, and it's, um, Tesla is also a robotics company, and yes, so thinking about how the robots might be used, uh, in the factory, uh, I think this might be kind of a testing ground. And so it's, it's more likely that you would need a robust private 5G network to sort of coordinate the efforts of, uh, of manufacturing robots, especially very advanced, very mobile manufacturing robots, especially if you're testing different use cases.

Um, so I wouldn't be surprised if, um, uh, what is it? Optimists, uh, optimists didn't have some, some role to play in this, or at least the five, the decision to put private 5G networks, uh, in the, in the facility wouldn't have something to do with the role that optimist might play on the, uh, the manufacturing floor or the assembly or in, in some process, some step in the, uh, the manufacturing process. Yeah, I think that's a very valid point, and I think it actually, uh, segues, uh, quite succinctly to our next, uh, topic.

And that is how are the operators approaching private 5G? And then we certainly have been, you know, focused on say, you know, the Cisco proposition and also how a specific enterprise such as Tesla is, you know, viewing private 5G. Well, welcome to the ecosystem.

Certainly the operators have a, a very important stake in this. And as received, uh, Verizon is focused on, you know, managing secure and high performing private networks that are, you know, tailored to the needs of their customers. So I think that's gonna be a constant theme.

In order for these networks to be adopted, they have to truly be aligned to their specific needs. It's not the same thing as building in a public network. And then well come as you are and hop on and so forth.

Now, to that end, uh, Verizon has completed, uh, the first phase of certifying the addition of Nokia's Digital Automation Cloud or DAC, to its list of supported offerings and private, uh, networks. And that is, you know, using Verizon's license spectrum. Now, uh, when it's added to the portfolio, and I'll, uh, say that I believe it will be, uh, making the cut.

The in Nokia DAC would expand Verizon business's hardware and software options available to customers of Verizon businesses', private 5G uh, network offering. Now, the Nokia DAC platform can also be used to enhance indoor coverage for Verizon CU consumers and enterprise customers. So we've been focused heavily really on the enterprise side, but here we see there's an impact on, uh, for example, on the consumer side.

And, uh, let's address why that could be. Now, Nokia's D is, uh, again designed to, uh, support private wireless connectivity, and that includes, you know, manufacturing, logistics, ports, airports, uh, mining, agriculture and energy. We've touched on a few of these segments already.

Now, last year, uh, Nokia added its private 5G platform to its lab as a service. And this is allowing device vendors, enterprises to test the interconnectivity and working on top of Nokia's DAC and modular private, uh, wireless networks. Now, to date, uh, Verizon's use of NAC of Nokia D platform has been focused on dedicated and unlicensed spectrum implementations in the US as well as Europe.

Now that makes sense. It's Verizon. Now, this, uh, includes use of the quasi license citizens broadband radio service spectrum, or CBRS.

And here in the US that's really been the dominant form of implementing, uh, private, uh, 5G quite simply. And so I think that's important to note that CBRS is going to be vital to how, you know, private 5G and, you know, private networking really, uh, accelerates. Now, uh, Nokia, uh, is adding a new option for, uh, Verizon's private network plans, which is basically relying on equipment services from, uh, Nokia.

But now it's, uh, actually, uh, I think introducing a new competitive dynamic that is for, uh, uh, quite some time Verizon's been using Ericsson. And, uh, I think this is, uh, highlighted by the fact that before this specific announcement, Ericsson, uh, uh, revealed that it's providing its private network, uh, platform to var, uh, Verizon as part of a neutral host in private 5G deal at Cummins engine plant in Lakewood, uh, New York. So here is another specific example who is implementing this, why is this, you know, really gaining momentum?

And I'd like to note that this, uh, deployment includes the first use of Verizon's launched neutral host network platform. It just came out recently, and this will act really as a, on-premises centralized host that supports cellular connections, Verizon and other cellular operators, as well as a Verizon private 5G, uh, network. And this is, again, using Verizon's license spectrum to support really those business critical applications.

And again, that can conclude our friends, the mobile robots, as well as ar vr. I know you're skeptical about that, Olivier, but this is definitely part of the plan. And I think I touched on why, you know, this is, uh, integral plus, you know, there's gonna be sensor monitoring as well as onsite applications, typically proprietary.

And I think this is quite simply demonstrating that the building out of the ecosystem base for private networks, specifically private 5G including, uh, managed spectrum for enterprises, that the 5G market as a result will start, you know, providing opportunities for operator enterprise sales forces, specifically to add it to, you know, their list of why, you know, adopt our services, our managed services alongside those mobile edge compute capabilities. We touched on that is it's really, uh, going to be, uh, a, a bundled sale for the major operators combining private vig with, again, those mobile edge compute, uh, requirements. And, uh, so from your view, uh, Olivia, what is it about, you know, the, uh, the Verizon, uh, process of onboarding Nokia that is intriguing?

Um, well, I mean, you've got two giants, right? You have, you have Verizon with the, uh, with the footprints and, uh, the infrastructure, and you have Nokia with the, uh, with, with a French say, right? They, they have, um, they, it's, it's kind like two, two really good pieces of the puzzle that, um, that work very well together.

So that, that type of partnership just sort of, you know, again, makes things much more efficient. Verizon doesn't have to carry a lot of extra weight. They don't wanna really necessarily have to deal with, uh, Nokia can come in and do what they do.

So it's, uh, it, it's, to me, it, it makes sense from an operational standpoint, from an efficiency standpoint, uh, from a sort of like a, a joint technology, uh, standpoint, but also it, it helps validate, uh, that this is serious, that this will work right on, on both sides, right? Nokia and Verizon working together as, I don't know, it's like Batman, robin, you know, for it's dude. It's, it's better together.

Um, and also they could have picked somebody else, but obviously there's, there's a good, it's a good fit there and, and it's, it's good for good companies there. There'll be more revenue coming both their ways. Um, I'm seeing a lot of this, like even just a, which has nothing to do with networks, but, uh, in the automotive sector, for instance, we're seeing media tech, uh, the, uh, the chip company partnering with Nvidia, also the chip company.

And, um, so they're, they're finding ways of, of penetrating markets and scaling and de delivering services to customers that individually they would be, uh, hard pressed to deliver or at least deliver as well. So, um, so I like that kind of thing. It's, uh, and it brings I think, some security also to, uh, not network security, although that's also the case, but it brings some security, I think, to, um, uh, to people who are interested in, in, uh, the revenue streams of these companies and who look pretty carefully at the, um, at market share and big strategic moves in, uh, in the industry.

So, uh, yeah, it's, it's all upside for everybody, including customers. Yes. And I think, uh, you touched on a couple of outstanding points.

You know, Nokia's role, uh, we already see that they are collaborating, uh, with Cisco, certainly, and I think, uh, this is common sense, uh, from my view, Nokia is the market leader in, uh, private, uh, networking, and certainly private 5G comes to mind. And also it reinforces that operators love flexibility and choice and their supplier arrangements. And it's further intensifying the, uh, comp, uh, competition, uh, between, you know, the Scandinavian vendors, you know, now, uh, that, uh, Nokia is in the process of, you know, being certified by Verizon business for, you know, managed private 5G uh, services.

Uh, this is, you know, demonstrating like, yes, we like Ericsson, but we need Nokia, and we want to quite simply address our total, uh, uh, expand, I should say, our total addressable market as a result. Uh, you know, let the competition intensify quite simply. Yeah, Yeah.

And, you know, like we, the, the thing about the, the ar uh, use case, it's not that I'm skeptical. Um, I'm, I'm very pro ar and, and honestly, it's, it's one of the things that, that I've been concerned about in recent years. And I remember going to, I think it was 5G Americas maybe a year or two ago.

Um, and, and I was really curious about what the carriers were doing, the operators were doing to, to sort of grease the skids to make augmented reality, uh, ubiquitous augmented reality more of a thing to, to, to make it possible so that this dream we have of, you know, all of us walking around with glasses like this, or maybe some better looking ones, um, that have a little bit of augmented reality that can basically just give you, um, you know, connects you to businesses. You happen to be walking down the street, you've set your preferences to X, Y, Z or an AI somewhere in the cloud. Your, your shopping assistant knows what you like and what you don't like.

Um, and assuming that businesses are participating in, in this, this kind of like software game, um, if somebody has a sale, if the, the, the algorithm realizes that you're, you're probably hungry because it's lunchtime and it hasn't sensed that you have eaten yet, it might show you as you're walking down the streets, you know, two for one, you know, pizza slices or something else, you know, and, um, that capability that, that sort of capability of, of being able to shop, being able to navigate through streets, being able to answer emails, uh, do things on the go where instead of looking down at your screen, you're wearing your screen on your face requires changes and improvements and, and, and upgrades in the networks and, and upgrades that preferably are specifically geared towards those types of use cases at scale. And when, when I asked the, uh, the, the carriers what they were, how they were planning for this big giant bubble, they were basically like, Nope, no, if we're not, we're not planning, uh, to do anything like this yet. Maybe, uh, I can't remember what the release was, basically, it was kind of like, maybe six G, you know, we'll get there.

Um, and, and I think the timing of the technology itself and then the, the, the, that model, um, probably will align better once, once the the time comes. Um, but so seeing a different strategy, or at least a different focus with the private 5G networks, we're like, okay, it's not really about scale, right? We're not waiting for mass adoption.

Uh, we don't have to to play cart before horse games of, you know, investing in something that may never happen. Um, the fact that they're essentially sort of thinking about it in private 5G networks, and my guess is that they're working out the challenges and the kinks in private 5G networks to understand how to better address that use case. That market opportunity, once augmented reality becomes a mainstream consumer, uh, use case, I think is really interesting.

And so, while I'm still a little bit skeptical about, uh, the, the number of companies basically accelerating their adoption of AR solutions, uh, 'cause the, it's just, it's, it's tricky there. The, the, the development developer ecosystem isn't quite there yet. The applications really haven't scaled yet.

Um, but it's, it's a good testing ground and it's a good learning, uh, opportunity for, uh, for networks to, um, uh, to focus on on these ar solutions in, in the enterprise. Um, so anyway, I was just rambling, but that's kinda like how I'm thinking about it. And it just, it made me think about that a little bit that, um, there's, there's more work being done through private 5G networks and that sales space to the enterprise then, uh, than I realized a year ago.

Yeah. Yes, Yes. And I think, uh, those are great points, Libby, I, as you know, I fully appreciate those minority report scenarios where, you know, consumers, uh, that, and we touched on that this is not exclusively an enterprise show when it comes to private 5G.

It will have, you know, consumer, uh, applications. And I think that brings it out. And another thing about your comments that, uh, I think reminded me that this is a salient point to emphasize is that yes, you know, 5G is still unfolding and for private 5G to work, it requires 5G standalone networks.

And those are still being transitioned towards, you know, the majority of the implementations, if I'm not, uh, mistaken on a global basis, are still at the non standalone phase, which is, you know, basically combining 4G LTE and 5G in order to enable, you know, the operators to kick off their adoption of 5G with on the radio side. But we're seeing more and more implementation of 5G core. Uh, again, Nokia working with AWS on the O2 Telefonica network, that I think brings out that this is really coming to, uh, reality that this is the kite of progress that we need.

And stay tuned. I don't know if we're gonna have to wait until six G actually becomes, you know, something tangible, uh, because after the standalone implementations we have 5G advanced and you know, we have talked extensively with, you know, suppliers such as Qualcomm as to, you know, why that will be an additional difference maker in terms of, you know, making five GA network that can actually enable things like ar, vr use cases where it's actually monetized and actually is making a difference in business outcomes. Yep.

Yep. No, absolutely. We'll, we'll get there.

Yes. We'll, we'll keep commenting on this every week until they get tired of us commenting on it. It's alright, we're gonna have and make this, you know, monetized.

I'm, I'm good with that. I'll, I'll let's nag them until it happens. Right on.

And I think, uh, that will be a good way to, I guess, you know, further celebrate the birthday weekend, I guess we could say. And so thank you. Yeah, indeed.

Uh, thanks so much for joining, uh, today's episode and naturally we'll be back later this month, uh, with, you know, more key takeaways on what's going on in the 5G ecosystem. And also I'd like to thank our viewing audience for joining in and also listening in, you know, naturally don't forget to bookmark, uh, 5G Factor. And so with that, everybody have a great private 5G day.

Thank you.