From Linguistics to Developer Advocacy with Kevin Dubois – Techstrong Unplugged EP42

Welcome back to Textron Unplugged. My name is Cassandra Chen, and today we have Kevin Dubal with us here. Hi, Can you introduce yourself?

Sure, yeah. So I'm, uh, Kevin Dub. I'm a developer advocate at, uh, at Red Hats.

Um, and I've been doing that for the last two years. Um, and my background is in software engineering. Uh, I've done that most of my work life, my work career.

Uh, yeah. And, And can you tell me a little bit about how you got started into technology? Sure.

Yeah. So, um, of course as a kid I was, I enjoyed playing video games and stuff like that, but I wasn't necessarily looking for a career in it because, um, I, I didn't really like the idea of spending my whole life behind, uh, a desk. Um, you know, I always like, I, I picture myself, you know, going places and doing stuff.

Um, yeah. And then I did end up, uh, going to the university and then, uh, found this, uh, uh, kind of university degree in Italy, which was kind of a combination between linguistics and computer science, because I also am passionate about language and, uh, linguistics. But then, yeah, I like to play that.

Can You tell that a little bit about what linguistics actually is? Yeah, so it's basically the study of language, right? So in, uh, in linguistics you can learn about, uh, the history of, uh, of languages, how they were created, how they evolved, and, um, but also literature as part of linguistics.

Um, and then of course, you know, studying actual languages as well. When you took computer science with linguistics, was it kind of accidental or, Um, in, in a way, so, to be honest, uh, before I went to Italy, I also studied at the university in Belgium. Um, first I did aeronautical engineering because I was really, uh, I wanted to, I wanted to become a pilot, uh, but I did some tests and my eyes weren't good enough, so I wanted to do something with airplanes.

So I studied aeronautical engineering, didn't quite work out. Then I completely changed to, uh, studying, um, linguistics in Belgium for a little bit, but I didn't really like, uh, the university system in Belgium, and I wanted to go somewhere else. And so, because I had always, you know, been, you know, like playing around with computers and doing, uh, you know, some experimentation there, I was like, well, here's a course that kind of combines those two interesting subjects, and it seems like something to, to try out.

So that's how I ended up there. And so in a way it was a little bit accidental how I ended up going into, uh, computer science that way. You said that before you felt like computers were just like sitting in front of a screen all day.

Yeah. How would you feel about it now? Um, completely different.

Uh, so I started, uh, learning about the actual programming at the university, and, um, because before I just like created some websites with HTML or CSS or whatever, um, and never really actually programmed. And once I started doing that, I was like, this is actually really fun. I really like this.

And, um, when I graduated, um, I moved to the United States. My, my wife's from the United States and, um, got a job, uh, which was, uh, programming with cold fusion, which is, uh, really random. Um, but I really enjoyed it.

And it was literally, I mean, for the most part, sitting behind a desk. Can you repeat That again? You said programming with cold fusion?

Cold fusion? Yes. So, uh, it's a really weird one.

So it was, uh, using this, uh, IDE called Dreamweaver. And so it basically like embedded HTML and like the same XML kind of structure for the, the programming bits too. So it was a little bit funky, like it made sense, but it like mixed, you know, the front end and the back end kind of very like hard coupled in, in that.

So I did that for a year, and then I started realizing like, I don't know if this is a good direction for my career. So then I got more into, well, first, uh, uh, into, uh, I, I got another job where we worked mainly with PhD, HPI also didn't love that because it was a little too loose. And, uh, I had studied Java at the university, and that's where I really enjoyed, you know, like the structure and, um, the, the, you know, like the, the, the type safety of it all.

So then eventually I got into, uh, a Java job and kind of never looked back from, uh, from Java. Is that your like happy spot Java? I think so, yeah.

Yeah. It, uh, I, I think especially the few years that I worked on PHP gave me really a sense of like, um, working with developers who were not very disciplined and we had to maintain the, those applications and it was, it was a mess. Because if you don't have the type safety and you don't have like the, the, you know, kind of the, the, the barriers in a way that Java provides it become, it can very quickly become a mess.

If you're not super, uh, structured in the way that you define you, you create your code. And that's something that always bothered me about, uh, working with PHB. And I like that about Java.

You still have flexibility, but more like, It's more like rail guards, see? Exactly. I just go over it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are you doing now today? So, uh, I, I'm now work as a developer advocate, so it's funny, I sit less behind my desk now.

I mean, I still do, and I still, uh, uh, write, uh, Java programs, but quite a bit less. Um, instead I, you know, I do a lot more public speaking about, you know, my experiences that I've learned over all those years working as a software engineer and as a lead software engineer and working with teams and, uh, and especially about, uh, developer experience and, you know, how can we find, you know, a way to make developers happier in the sense that they can focus on being productive, but in, in a fun way, right? Not to necessarily crank out more code or anything, but actually enjoy and, and feel that I'm not spending my time, um, you know, working on boilerplate kind of stuff, you know, that I'm actually like creating something new.

Um, so yeah, it's, these Still come back to coding sometimes. Absolutely. Yeah.

So, uh, I, I get to create, uh, demos, of course, uh, for, to kind of support my talks and to show like, Hey, here's some cool stuff. Um, and so we at Red Hat, uh, we, we only with open source, right? So I get to work with, uh, um, open source projects and kind of bring them together.

Uh, I get to experiment a lot because like we are, you know, like at Red Hat, we're working on a lot of experimental stuff in the open source communities as well, so I can be like the Guinea pig to try out a lot of the stuff and provide feedback. Um, so I create, you know, like, uh, little applications here and there. The kind of, the, the fun thing is that I don't need to support them on production anymore because it's just like, you know, they need to work for my use case and, and my things, and sometimes a little more than that because we also create content and tutorials and, uh, labs and everything.

So there they need to be a little bit more stable and maintainable, but for the most part, I get the expect That's really different. 'cause I think when you work for software engineering, sometimes your job is maintaining someone else's code. Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, that's, uh, the reality, right, is, uh, you, you go into a project and you see the code, and I mean, and to be honest, even if I look at my own code from a few years ago, I, I get the same kind of reaction, like, uh, this is, this needs to be done better, or Why didn't they do it this way?

Or, you know, can I even read this code because it's just a tangled mess or something? Um, I, I don't necessarily miss that part. I mean, I, I still, still get to experience some of that, especially working in the, in open source communities.

And, you know, I also contribute to some projects and, you know, we see a little bit of it there, but, uh, yeah. Are you involved in open source communities? Yeah, so I, I'm not like a core maintainer of any projects, but, uh, you know, I contribute to, for example, to Corcas or, um, to Poman and Poman desktop or, uh, to K Native, you know, so, um, bits and pieces here and there whenever I can, uh, well, when I have time and when I can, uh, find something useful to, What kind of contributions do you make?

Um, so like for example, in in Corcus, uh, it's usually when I try out something and I find that there's a piece missing or, uh, there's a bug or something, I'll, uh, I'll, you know, try to trace through the code and see if I can fix it or if I can add a new feature that, you know, addresses my need and my use case. Um, you know, so for example, in in qca in terms of, uh, serverless functions, I found that there were, you know, like you can create, um, functions with QCA that you can deploy two, uh, Lambda, two Azure functions and two Google Cloud functions into K Native. And kind of the same way, um, I found that there were like some kind of differences between them.

So I, you know, tried to make it a little more universal or, uh, in the CLI, there's a Corcus CLI that you can also do a lot of the commands with in a more intuitive way than using Maven or Gradle. Um, but there were also like bits and pieces missing, so I was like, oh, I'll, uh, I can do that. Do you ever feel like it's intimidating to like submit a change or suggestion to a really big project, which, Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. So especially if you're not like day to day working on those projects, um, it's hard to come into those projects, uh, and feel like I'm doing it the way that they expect it to be, and then, but I think you need to be a little bit okay with, you know, the fact that you'll probably get feedback, uh, asking you to maybe change something or write it in a different way or something. And I, I think that's okay, but it is definitely intimidating, especially like I'm now a developer advocate, so I don't like ride code on a daily basis.

And so there's a little bit of that imposter syndrome, right? Like, uh, you know, maybe I'm losing my edge or something, and so I don't wanna be judged for maybe riding it, not in an optimal way or something. So, but I mean, I tried to get over that and if they see that there's issues, then they can just tell me.

Aside from just technology, do you have any other hobbies or like, what do you do in your free time? Um, so in my free time, I try to not have like, uh, personal projects in terms of like, uh, programming or it, I, I like to go outside. I really like the outdoors, so, um, you know, I like to travel, which I can fortunately combine in my current role, but I also like the outdoors and I like to go, um, snowboarding or pack rafting, which, uh, which is something that I picked up over the last few years where you basically just throw a little personal raft in your backpack and you go into the wilderness and I mean, you do your research, you don't just go down random rivers, but, you know, like you can, uh, enjoy nature like that.

So yeah. It sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, it definitely is.

Yeah. And it's good to have that balance between like not always being in front of the computer. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it's important to sometimes disconnect and, uh, you know, have something else in your life. It's, it's really tempting to, you know, work a lot of hours.

And admittedly, I I, I, I catch myself doing that too because like, oh, I want to finish this, and then, oh, there's also that, that I wanna do. And, um, but I, I really, uh, feel regenerated after like just disconnecting for a while and uh, going out in nature. Yeah.

Yeah, I can definitely see that. Maybe I should take more breaks from my computer. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we've had a really good chat today, so thank you Kevin. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Really enjoyed it. Thanks.