From Engineering to DevRel and Mentorship in Tech with Melissa McKay – Techstrong Unplugged EP34

Welcome back to Text and Unplugged. My name is Cassandra Chin, and today we're here with Melissa McKay and we're at the Cube Co North America event at Salt Lake City. Cool.

Yeah. Can you introduce yourself? Sure.

Yeah. Beautiful venue, by the way here. Lots of excitement, lots of people.

It's been really cool. I believe we have like 9,000 attendees. Yeah.

Yeah. Pretty awesome. Um, yeah.

I'm Melissa McKay. I am currently the head of developer relations at Jfr. Um, I'm actually based in Denver, so not a huge, uh, trip for me to get here.

Um, but I've never been to Salt Lake City, so this has, this has been, uh, quite the trip. Beautiful place. I'm happy to be here.

What inspired you to get into computer science? Well, actually it was kind of by accident. Um, you know, I didn't grow up in, I didn't have any family that was involved in computer science in any way.

I wasn't even familiar with, you know, what people did. Um, and so I knew I was good at math. I really enjoyed that, and I was encouraged to look into some kind of a STEM degree in engineering degree.

And I chose, uh, electrical engineering. That's what I actually started to, uh, when I went to, uh, college, uh, that was my major that I declared was electrical engineering. Well, one of the classes that we had to take for that, uh, study was, um, it was like a beginning to programming class, but the very, very first thing they taught us was, was, uh, binary math and hex.

And I was just in love. I'm like, wait, what? What is this?

Uh, I, I never knew this existed. And then when I, when I started looking at code and code samples that they were teaching us, um, it was in, I didn't have any idea that people did this for a living. And I just, I immediately changed my degree.

So that's how that happened. That feels very coincidental. Yes.

Very much to have the accident. Very much. And it was a difficult, because it's kind of late to start learning computer science right now.

Today we see like kids are learning, um, programming earlier in school. I think that's really helpful. I did really feel behind, but with my personality, I, I kind of like the challenge.

So, um, I did just, you know, I worked really hard and caught up with my peers. Uh, so yeah, It was, and when you made the switch to computer science, like how did you overcome, like, being a woman in the field and your peers are like, probably guys? Yeah, yeah.

You know, I didn't struggle a whole lot. I mean, I did notice, especially when I'd walk into a classroom and I'd be maybe one of two women there, and in some cases, maybe the only one there, um, I can see how that would be intimidating for, for people. Um, I was very quiet, didn't, didn't talk a whole lot.

Um, but the more I got interested in the subject, the more passionate I was about, you know, talking about it with the people that were around me. So, and, and I was lucky to be accepted, um, pretty well. So I, I think even as a, even as a younger kid, I had a lot of support.

Um, there was a, I'll never forget her. I'm gonna name her because I am, I am just so, she affected my life so much. Her name was Mary Bieber.

She ran an independent study program at the elementary school I was at, and she noticed that I was good at math. She pushed me hard. She got me into, uh, advanced classes.

And so that was the, the first time that I noticed, you know, I was, uh, as a younger girl, I was being pushed into situations that weren't as comfortable, but I got a lot of practice with it early on. So when it came, came to doing stuff later and, and being involved in computer science especially. Um, you know, all my professors were men, um, and all, a lot of those students were, were guys.

Um, I just, I think it was just a confidence level. It, I was lucky. I was lucky.

'cause I have heard, you know, stories from others that just anecdotal that, you know, maybe their journey wasn't as easy. Yeah. I think sometimes just knowing someone who supports you can, like, make the difference.

Yes. Um, my professors were very supportive too. Um, no time did I feel like I was being singled out or ignored or anything like that.

So yeah. Good experiences. And like, I know like earlier in your career you were a software engineer.

Yes. But now you're, I guess, head of Devereux. Yes.

Yes. So that was quite the move. I was a developer for years and years and years.

Um, I had the opportunity to start an internship and then was later employed by a services company that did a lot of contract work for other companies. So I got a lot of experience, like broad experience in different languages and different tool sets and stuff. Um, I think that made a big difference because it, it gave me, it gave me that breadth of knowledge that you definitely need for Devereux, of course.

Um, in order to be able to have good conversations with a wide variety of people. Um, but I loved programming. You know, I loved being in front of my computer, writing the code, uh, fixing bugs, um, going to Jira, pulling a task out, you know, getting stuff done.

Uh, the planning meetings with my teams, uh, those were always, uh, really good experiences. I loved the challenge, but there was a point in time when I started realizing I wanted to do something different. Um, uh, it was time to change in my career, and I was really interested in teaching education, and that's a, a big portion of Devereux is education, uh, helping others, helping our customers mainly.

You know, that's a big one as well. And I really enjoy that kind of work. I also got an experience where I went to an unconference, and you know what an unconferences, right?

Cassandra, I think we met at an Unconference, uh, it was called Jay Crete. And man, it was like 12 years ago or something, is the first one that I went to. And, uh, consistently went, uh, every year.

I did not go last year. I was really bummed about that. But, um, this summer, I'll, I'll make an appearance there again.

But that experience, I, I got to meet a lot of other speakers that traveled, went to conferences, uh, were putting together these talks. It was a few years before I decided to take the jump, but I think that was the beginning of my thinking that I was going to be led in a different direction at some point. So it's been almost five years now that I've been in DeVere.

I, I am not bored. I can say that there's always something new to learn, uh, different challenges that, like I said, it's a different animal than, than, uh, you know, the strictly development work or code coding. Um, so yeah, that's the long story how I got here.

And like before you were like dere, like the Dere position, you go to conferences present and you teach developers. Yes. Uh, well, jfr is a DevOps platform.

Uh, we have a DevOps platform, DevSecOps platform. And so I, I ended up talking to not only just developers, but uh, a lot of operations folks as well. So that was a whole nother aspect that was relatively new to me, uh, being able to, to get in, uh, with that crowd and be able to address their concerns.

So yes, um, being able to speak with developers and getting them to be conscious of like how they were actually building their software. Uh, thinking of things like what dependencies they're pulling in, maybe some security issues that they had never thought about. I, I really enjoy speaking to younger developers and getting them caught up on, you know, the, the general software processes that they're gonna experience, you know, early on in their careers.

And, uh, so yeah, I feel like they don't teach those software processes in school. They don't, I, I noticed this too, especially when I graduated. I was overwhelmed with all of the new tools that I needed to learn.

You know, I, I wasn't really familiar with BUILD servers. I wasn't familiar with CICD. Um, even source control was challenging for me.

That was the first time, you know, when, when you're in school and a student, maybe you don't always have the experience of working in a team, so you're never presented with the problem of trying to keep code coordinated between, you know, several different people. So of course, um, when I got an internship, and I highly recommend doing this, or anyone in a computer science, uh, program, uh, get that internship because that's where you're going to get the real job experience and be able to see what it's really like being a software developer. It is not, uh, sitting alone in a corner, uh, doing your own thing.

That is not how it is. There's a lot of communication, uh, that is involved a lot of, uh, understanding requirements and that kind of thing. So, uh, yes, in school you learn the basics, you learn code, you learn, um, you know, those details, how to write code, but, uh, the rest of it you're gonna get on the job.

And like, being a part of dere now, like, do you still face any issues with feeling like you're the only woman? Yes. I still get in situations like that.

I think in, in Dere, I have had a lot more of experience with other women, mainly because a part of dere is, uh, coordinating different teams within the company, making sure those communication lines are open. So I get a lot of access to other areas of the company that, where there are more women. Um, and I'm not sure why that is, but like for example, uh, you know, our marketing department, we have a ton of amazing women and a men in our marketing department.

Um, but I do get, you know, more interaction with women there. There's still plenty of times, especially, you know, when I come to an event, I may go, go to a session even, and I, I'll look across the room and maybe there's, you know, five women in a, you know, a hundred person audience. Occasionally that does happen.

Uh, and I'm not sure why that still is today. Um, but I, I think a big portion of it, at least for me, in my own experience and getting here, was just getting that support. Um, getting, you know, not being subject to the biases that we all have unintentionally in a lot of cases.

And, and I got, um, you know, pushed, pushed and encouraged into this position. I mean, personally for me, like I'm pursuing computer science, but I've known you for a long time and you're in the industry. Yeah.

So you're like a pillar of support. Awesome. Uh, that makes a difference too, is getting women in these positions and then having us talk about it.

So I love doing this with you, Cassandra. I think this is very important, um, to get that out there, to have examples for other girls, other women that want to get into this career. It's absolutely possible.

I hope we can inspire more women to get into computer science and we can build allyship. Yes. So thank you today, Melissa.

Thank You. Good talking with you. Yeah.