Driving Accessibility and Inclusion in Open Source with Catherine Paganini – Techstrong Unplugged EP40

Welcome back to Text and Unplugged. My name is Cassandra Chin, and today we're here with Catherine Paganini. Mm-hmm.

Thanks for having me. Introduce yourself. Uh, sure.

I'm Catherine Paganini, head of marketing at Buoyant, uh, the creator of Linker D and I'm also the, uh, co-chair of the tag contributor strategy and the facilitator of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing working group. So you're working on some CNCF diversity initiatives. Can you tell me more about it?

Um, sure. Um, about a year and a half ago, I started the Deaf and Heart of Hearing Working Group, um, which, uh, focuses on creating pathways for Deaf and Heart of hearing. And basically, uh, it was an idea that is inspired by, um, a program for Maori youth by, uh, JT Hema.

Uh, and if you wonder why deaf and heart of hearing, so my, uh, high school friend, she was, uh, her parents were deaf, and her brother and I also happened to live, um, next to Galludet University, which is actually a very famous university, uh, worldwide if you're deaf and heard of hearing, uh, because it is for deaf uh, students, and it's also, uh, by deaf faculty, which actually was revolutionary at the time. Um, so, um, that's how it started. And so I created a, or I wrote up a link, a LinkedIn post, which the CNCF shared, and suddenly all these people started to join.

And then suddenly we had like a big group of, uh, a deaf people who wanted to, uh, yeah, just participate, which, uh, was very excited, uh, exciting. And then most recently, uh, I wanted to, um, yeah, create more opportunities, uh, or like, like, um, expand that effort. And so I'm working on a new initiative, uh, that is Linux Foundation-wide.

Um, and, uh, so basically the deaf and heard of Fearing will kind of be part of it. And then we also launched two other initiatives. Uh, one, uh, is the Bipoc, um, which is brand new.

Uh, we just had our second meeting, uh, last, um, week. Uh, we had a lot of people, which was really exciting. So it's promising, but yeah, very early on.

And we also have a, um, blind and visually impaired initiative. Unfortunately, there, uh, we have not really found that many people, uh, yet. So for some reason it's a little bit harder to find visually impaired people than deaf, uh, in our community.

I don't know why, but so if anyone knows anyone, so please send them our way because you need a, a cri critical mass to kind of do something. So yeah, that's kind of like the aem. What are the goals of all these different initiatives?

Yeah, so what you basically three buckets. You have visibility, uh, you have creating a supportive network, uh, and you have, um, um, advocacy, right? And so visibility is kind of the fun and easy part, right?

Like it's basically supporting each other to, uh, give talks, uh, having, uh, uh, being visible, right in the, in the community, um, um, where more senior, uh, members can, uh, help more junior members. And then kind of giving them tools, um, to be, uh, to participate in the conversation. Um, also celebrating each other's, um, um, accomplishments on social media.

That sounds a little fluffy, but if you think about it, if you have like someone who created something or did like a talk or, uh, um, another accomplishment, and you have the entire group, uh, that, uh, shares that and, and, and celebrates that on their social media, um, profiles, then a lot more people see it, right? Again, visibility is important to kind of show people that this community is there and present. Uh, and then, um, also like media interviews, like here.

So this is really a, a good, and then I know you're gonna talk to Rob from our deaf and heart of hearing working group, so that's really important too for, um, yeah, raising awareness about these, uh, different groups and, uh, maybe the challenges they face, uh, in terms of accessibility, what do they need and so on. I'm glad I can help you raise awareness. Yeah, no, it's really important, so thank you.

And what, why are these initiatives important? Um, so DEI efforts are being scaled back, as you may know, right? So that's actually very sad.

Um, but that's makes, that makes it even more important for a community, um, driven change to kind of, to happen, right? Like, so we really need, uh, like we can, we shouldn't be sitting back because companies aren't doing anything anymore, like, or fewer companies are, are really doing something and we need to kind of like, like, uh, take action. And, um, it's, it's not that hard.

Like, so if enough people know about it, and, uh, uh, if we manage to educate the community about the challenges, the different groups, uh, face and enough, uh, critical mass knows about it and is passionate about it and, and does want to, um, drive this change, we can ultimately push for change. Um, I see it a little bit similar to what's happened with sustainability. Like right now, uh, you have a huge amount, like of like a big part of the young workforce.

They don't wanna work for a company that's not sustainable, right? They, they wanna say like, I wanna be for a company that does environmental conscious and so on. So that's forcing companies to be more sustainable, sustainable because they wanna tap into that, uh, talent pool, right?

And to get access to that talent pool, they have to kind of comply and kind of attract them. And so I do think that that same, um, um, demographic is very passionate about DEI like diversity and inclusion, but they may not necessarily know, um, or recognize, um, the issues, right? For instance, one example is one of our deaf, uh, members, he, uh, had a job interview with one of the top financial institutions in this country, uh, and all over the website it says like, they're accessible and they, diversity and inclusion is really important.

And it was a horrific experience. Uh, he, uh, explained them what he needed. They didn't read obviously the, the, the what he asked for.

And, uh, so basically it's clear that a lot of it is marketing bs, right? So it's like, it's not really, it's like that's what our, the young people wanna hear. So we're gonna say we're, um, diverse, like we, we, uh, cherish diversity and inclusion, but they don't really fall through.

And so as you with these inc uh, diver, uh, with these initiatives, if we, um, if we can educate the community so they can recognize, uh, the, or they can see the difference between genuine, um, diversity, uh, efforts versus just marketing bs, you know, then they can kind of call it out. And then, so basically, I think that's, uh, that's something that I hope we can create at some point. Of course, it's a thing, it's not something that's gonna happen in two years, right?

It's like maybe a decade, like, like really changing that. So educating enough people so that they, they see, recognize it, know what it is, and kind of push for change, uh, takes, uh, quite a little bit. But I do think that the open source community is very well positioned to do this because we are a community, right?

Like unlike, um, uh, the traditional companies where you have, uh, you basically if, if in the traditional companies you work, uh, within your company and you don't interact outside, like maybe with some partners or some clients, but there is no such community where you kind of collaborate with people all over the world. And so that network, uh, allows us to really educate people and, and raise awareness. And so I do think that open source can lead the way and, uh, kind of, yeah, just lead the way so the rest of the industry follows with yeah.

With, uh, with these initiatives and hopefully will bring change. I hope so too. And what role does allyship play?

Um, allies are very important because minorities are by definition in the minority, and no minority can do something can bring change, uh, on their own, right? And so what, uh, allies can do is amplify the voices of underrepresented groups. Um, they can, um, um, advocate, uh, they can, um, educate, right?

Like that same thing that like, uh, people from the minority can do, but like, really kind of like, uh, we need a lot of people doing that. We need a lot of people advocating, educating and so on. And, um, so, and the other thing that's really important as well, minorities need to, to learn from minorities as well.

So it's not about the minority educating the majority, right? But minorities also need to learn about the challenges of the other minority so they can support and, uh, um, support each other, right? And so I'm really excited because we do have two, uh, deaf and heart of hearing members that are part of the Bipoc group and the fact themselves that they are there in the meeting, um, exposing themselves or like meeting like all these other, um, BIPOC members or, um, is also very important because suddenly now they're touching and kind of making these connections.

And everyone who is in that meeting, uh, um, who may have never met someone who is deaf or heard of hearing, uh, may suddenly have a very different perspective of accessibility. But because like I always say, like accessibility is a very abstract concept if you don't know anyone who needs it, right? It's like, we know it's good, we know we should do it, but it's kind of a checkbox, right?

So yeah, I do feel that a bit. But if you meet someone and you put a face to accessibility, right? Like suddenly it's not just a checkbox, it's, and then it makes also people think more about it, right?

Like you're, um, yeah, it's just like more, more you, more awareness and, and, and yeah. And so it just focuses people on the importance of that. And, um, yeah.

So that I think is, is, is very important. So I think that the fact that we're seeing this crossover is very important, and I'm hoping that we can see more of that, like different groups, like being different people being part of different groups and helping each other and supporting each other. I think that's really important.

Can you share some wins? Uh, yeah. So, um, I mean, the wins are only for the, um, deaf haven't heard of hearing working group so far because, uh, the other ones are too new.

Um, but Q Con has been, um, accessible, uh, since a year for, uh, deaf signing individuals. Uh, so I don't know if you went to the keynotes, but if you were there, you might have seen interpreters on stage, uh, their interpreters like, uh, in like for the, uh, uh, deaf, uh, attendees as well, and like, so allowing them to, to network. So that's amazing.

Um, we have several, um, community activity. So we're gonna have a, a community, um, a sign language crash course, uh, tomorrow. Uh, and so, um, basically, uh, that's just like a way of people to interact with, uh, with the community and get like another chance, like not only having people at the talk or, so, it's another chance.

So it's a fun way of kind of making those connections. We have an open, um, space discussion. Uh, we have a kiosk.

Um, all these things are very, um, all these things, all these, uh, um, things kind of help, like making those, uh, connections that will hopefully change people's, um, relationship to the world, to the word accessibility. And then, uh, one example that is like really cool I think is like, uh, and we have some of them, but like, that, um, is like very, um, timeliest, uh, Anastasia, one of, of our deaf members, she just became the first deaf, uh, CNCF ambassador. Um, and she's, she's always, uh, she submitted talk, several talks, and she teamed up with someone from the community.

Costas is his name, and he's, um, an Argo maintainer and, uh, has, um, really become his men, her mentor her, and kind of like, um, they teamed up for, for conference talks. And it's just really, uh, uh, great to see how like, the ability to come to conferences to meet all these people is kind of opening up, uh, so many opportunities and, and making professional connections. All the things that we as hearing individuals, we take for granted, and we just go and make professional connections, um, that will open, uh, uh, that will eventually kind of like, maybe like, um, show us another job opportunity or, you know, like it's, it's so important to have those, and before it was not available if you're not allowed, uh, if you're not able to go to conferences or, um, participate in the, in, in the, in the community, you basically don't have these opportunities.

And so it's nice to see like these, how people kind of start growing and making those connections and also participate, like, take advantage of the things that you and I, uh, take for granted. Yeah. Yeah.

That's very important. And for the community members listening to this, how can they get involved? Yeah.

So, um, if you're a part of the minority, like any minority group, like, like we should join, like the more, uh, the more people we have, the more effective we can be. But anyone can join, right? You don't, like, I'm not part of any minority.

I'm very passionate about that. And, um, we need allies, as I said, like allies are very important. And so we have a slack channel for the deaf and horror of appearing.

We have a, a slack, a slack channel for Bipoc and for, uh, the blind and visually impaired. They're, that's exactly the name of the, uh, slack channel. So it's very easy to find, uh, if you don't wanna get too much involved, that's too much.

That's okay. You know, you can still be an ally. Um, follow our members on, um, on social media, uh, share their posts.

We're sharing stuff about accessibility and so on. So share it. 'cause that's, again, visibility is really important.

So if anyone can help, you know, like, like, like get more eyeballs that is already, um, you're already being an ally, so you can be more involved, as I said, like by joining. But you can also just, you know, just help share and spread the news and learn about accessibility and then educate your network basically. I'm really happy that you're supporting this initiative a whole lot.

Thank you. And yeah, thank you Catherine. Okay.

Thank you too for having me.