Collaboration Makes Tech Brilliance with Ivar Grimstad – Techstrong Unplugged EP6

Hey everybody and welcome back to Techstrong Unplugged. This is episode six of our series, and I'm your host of Atan Solomon. Joined by our, my co-host, Cassandra Chin on Techstrong unplugged, we dive into all things tech and get people up to speed with everything happening across the industry.

Recently, Cassandra went to the Great International Developer Summit, also known as gis. Cassandra, why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience there? So for this one, I interviewed, I wrote Grimm's dad, and he's like a well-known Java guy, community guy.

He's been doing this for a very long time and he travels to a lot of conferences and gives a lot of sessions. So he definitely has a fun personality to talk to. Right.

And as you said, at GID 2024, Cassandra sat down with Ivar, who is a Java champion and Jakarta e developer advocate. In this interview, Cassandra and Ivar also dive into navigating enterprise Java as well as the inter evolution of Jakarta and the importance of community involvement in open source projects. Uh, Cassandra, overall, what were your thoughts on the interview?

It was definitely a fun experience to be at the conference interviewing him, and he has his session. He's doing a lot of stuff there. It's definitely a fun place.

Awesome. Well, without further ado, let's head over to GID at Bangalore India. Welcome back to Textron Unplugged.

I'm your host Cassandra Chin, and today we have Eva Grimstead. Yes. So do an introduction.

Yes. So my name is Yvo Grim. I'm the, uh, Kar developer advocate at the Cliff Foundation.

And yeah, so what I usually do is travel around the conferences and doing talks and talking to people like you in this kind of interviews. How long have you been doing conferences and giving talks? Yeah, that's been a while now.

I did my first like, bigger conference talk in 2011. It's been, uh, almost 14 years now. But I started smaller by doing it, uh, internally in my company and in the Java user groups that are what was associated in it.

Do you wanna talk a little bit about your open source values? Yeah, sure. So I work for an open source foundation and one of my hard cases is to get involved in the open source community.

And to me that has been a really good enabler for my career. Uh, everything I do is based on what I've done on my spare time in the opensource, uh, community. And, uh, because usually when you work for a, an employer, uh, you, you have to do the, you know, the, the business application and that kind of stuff.

But if you can find some time to, to do some opensource, contribute to an open source project, file a bug or something that, that's opened a lot of doors for me. So now you're doing open source as a job? Yes.

I'm full-time, open source now, which is pretty cool. I think open source means like community, like can you make a living off of open source? Yeah.

Yeah. I, I mean you can like, uh, like me, I've worked for an open source foundation and I'm, I employed there, so yeah, I get my salary from them. So yeah, you can make money that way, but also if you have a successful open source project, you can set up any way.

So making money from it, like Yeah. Having get a sponsors or other corporations sponsoring your projects, so yeah, you can make money out of it. Absolutely.

How do you enjoy working with the people at open source projects? The it, I mean, the, the, uh, it should be, yeah, it's always pleasant. It's always good, but you meet all kinds of people there.

Uh, you just have to have an open mind. We come from different countries, different cultures. We behave differently, we do things differently.

Uh, sometimes we say things that come across crossing a different language, so you just have to be kind of open-minded. Yeah. Meow.

You know, Is that really different? Is that really different than like a traditional job? No, I wouldn't say that.

Yeah, it's the same people you meet or same kind of people you meet everywhere, but, but in open source, you, you may meet those people that the traditional kind of image of an open source developer would be someone sitting in their basement, never seeing people just, you know, coding. So you have to be able to interact with that kind of thing. I think that's the image of all developers.

It Could be, yes. Are there any open source projects you're really passionate about? Yeah, so obviously it's, uh, Jakarta e which is where I, where I spend most of my time.

But, uh, and another passionate product or a product I've always liked a lot is, uh, net Pins, which is at Apache Foundation. So, so you, you cannot be religious about just because I'm, I'm working with the Eccles Foundation. I still have a very good relationship with the Apache Foundation and I'm, I'm an committer on Apache net pins as well.

So, so all this open source world, we come together as a big one, big family, more or less. I think it's really great how you like, not only stick to the place that pays you, but you expand out and make new connections with. Yeah, it's nice and, and, uh, when you are at conferences, like, like here, we, uh, you meet people, engage with 'em, and yeah, it's, it's all, uh, very, very nice.

Does meeting people at conferences bring you new opportunities? Oh, definitely. So being at home, just behind your camera, you, you can reach out a lot, but being at a conference, especially between sessions, the the famous hallway track, that's where you meet people, that's where you may meet other friends, like, uh, getting speaker opportunities.

Uh, a couple of weeks ago I was a big at, at a big conference and I spoke to a lot of people and now I have a, uh, Java user group tours all across the world plan, just out of talking to those people there. I think that's really amazing how just talking to people. Yeah.

Because you think, like you're in front of your computer, you're online, you have access to more people, but more isn't always better. No, it's not. And it's very one directional when you're in front of your computer.

So of course you can have a Zoom video and talk to people, but seeing people close by and, and, uh, it's, it's, it's a, it's a much what I call a warmer communication channel. It's more because yeah, you see how people react, how them move, everything. So When you see people online, like does it make a difference when you see them in person?

I, I mean, yes, it can, uh, yeah. Online you've only seen maybe from the shoulders or not, but when you see the old person, it's, it's different. Yeah.

So definitely it's, uh, But are you able to build a better relationship? I think so by, by meeting people in person is always better to, to, uh, create relationships and, uh, yeah. And you get to get engaged with them, not only because when you are online, you are, you very kind of focused, you are in on that subject, uh, and, and you don't spend so much time socializing, but when you're at the conference, you may go out for drinks or dinner or just talk about random things about the country or visiting or something.

So, so you get to know people on a much deeper level So you stumble upon more random topics. Yes, definitely. So when you're on Zoom, do you feel like when you're on that meeting, that meeting title has a purpose and that's the only thing you talk about?

Mostly that's the case, yeah. But we have tried this, um, you know, virtual coffees and virtual, uh, just get together, talk about stuff, but it's really very effective. I think It's not quite the same.

No, it's Not. Are people too stiff on those calls? I think so, yes.

Are there any like, topics or values you wanna talk about? So topics or values? I, I think like as I sort of started with, I think the, the important thing or the, the good thing about being in this industry is that we are able to make money out of something we are very passionate about.

You, you will always find passionate software developers, and I think those that are more, more successful and, and don't get burned out are the one that follow their passion in the product. If you just go and, you know, do the, your daily amount of coding from eight to four every day or whatever your working hours are and, and you don't have a real passion for it, it's going to be a much harder, uh, you know, usual days for you than, than if, if you find some, maybe some officer of project that you're passionate about, some library that you want to improve on and, and dive into that, and maybe that will open some doors and you can make a career outta it, then it doesn't feel like job anymore. It, it's just, I'm, I'm just hanging out cool people talking about stuff I care about.

So that's, that's, I think it can be really difficult finding your initial passion because the expectation we get out of college is applied to lots of jobs. Yeah. And see which one says yes, and it gets narrowed down to only like maybe five.

Yeah. And, and I, I, I don't think you'll ever find your dream, your job, uh, right out of college. I think you, you probably have to jump around a little and that's good.

I mean, we have, uh, if you have the opportunity to stay a couple of years and learn and, and then move on to different company, get, get different experiences, then sooner or later you will be kind of narrowing into to where you want to go. And so, yeah, so, so that, that's definitely different. Our, all the opportunities we have also all by working remote, you, you don't really have to move to work for a company in a different country even so, so it's a lot of genes for us now or for your young people, It can work remote, but are time zones, challenging?

Time zones can be challenging, but also liberating. So the, the people I work, uh, is in, uh, a US Eastern time, whereas I'm in central European time, so, so my workday st starts like six hours before of them. So I have some time at home where I can clear out my inbox, do do the email stuff, do the administrative things, and then I have a couple of of meetings in the afternoon, and then I go off and they start, continue working.

I wonder if it's like the opposite case for them where like they wake up and there's a pile of work Probably. So you have to choose your time zone wisely. Yeah, I can say that.

Yeah. Um, so you're giving a talk here? Yes, I did.

Or I actually already had, I, I did a talk, uh, that has been very popular at conferences around, uh, it's about migrating from springwood to the Springwood three with a focus on what KAR and what the impact of that is. So yeah, it's, it's a good talk. It's fun.

Lots of demos. Do a lot of people use that technology? Oh yes, definitely.

Personally, I've actually never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, um, I, I guess, uh, a funny story that actually builds up on what you're saying is if you're doing a talk at a JavaScript conference, they will ask you to, oh, can't you get fit more stuff into that slide? Because they, they kinda see this stuff clearly. Whereas if you are at the Java conference, Java developers tends to be a little older and they ask, can we increase the font a little bit?

Oh, so You see. But, uh, that's a funny, I I think there are lots of young people learning Java today. It's, it's still a vibrant language, uh, and it's, it's been going on for 25 years or more.

And, uh, I think it will be going on for at least 25 more. So, so I, I, if I were starting my career today, I wouldn't be afraid of doing Java learning to, to code Java, because there will always be a job or Java develop, But I think Java is still in the school system. Like they have AP test testing or Java.

They do. That's good. Yeah.

Um, do you, any word topics? Ha have you been to GIS before? I have been here.

Uh, I, I've been talking to GIS five times. Uh, one of them was online during the pandemic, so I've been four times in person here. It's a great conference to be at and come back to.

And I, this year it feels, uh, bigger than ever. So there's lots of people. It's actually my first time here I kids.

Yeah. Do you have any recommendations on like what, what I should do here? So I, I, I would, uh, go out and see a little bit of Bangalore, take a one of those, you know, the rickshaws Yeah, I've seen the Rick Shaws off the street.

Yeah. You, you should held down one of those and, uh, and uh, ask them to take you for a ride. You, you should probably tell 'em where you want to go, like find some sites on, on Google Maps or something and, and, and, uh, try that because the traffic area is, uh, yeah, that's an experience.

Yeah. Like traffic lanes don't really seem to exist. No.

Yeah. And, and, and you should obviously if you want to cross the street by walking, you should be very careful. And my trick there is to find someone local and just follow 'em because they know when the cars will stop and, and to navigate because, um, you cannot trust them to stop, even if it's a seabra crossing, like, like we're used to.

That's a really good tip just to tell someone. Yes. How did you get started into technology yourself?

So I've always been interested in programming and I did the, I started my programming with, um, with the program with Basic and on the Commodore back in the eighties. That's a long time ago. But, but, uh, so, so I'm always interested in like, try out things and, and if I didn't have it in front of me, I, I tried building it, so, so I, I kinda intuitively understand this coding thing.

So I, I pursued that when I went to university and, uh, and I, and I really liked the, the, the, not I, I'm not maybe the hacker kind of person that is the best programmer or anything, but, but I like the, the structure and, and how to design programs and, and do that stuff and yeah. Are there any like applications you remember experimenting with or building? Yeah, it's, it's been a lot.

So, so yeah, I, I rem I actually remember my first hello world I was sitting at, at the university and uh, there was this new thing called Java, and I bought this book, Java one do zero in a nutshell. And I started like typing off the hello world, uh, back in, I think it was 97. So it's been, I've been calling Java for a while.

I think that book is an antique I might sell for a lot now. Yes. So yeah, that was a good book and, and I just fell for the, uh, you know, the simplicity of the language because at at school we were using c plus plus and it's, it's so much harder to get that right.

So when Java came around and just solved a lot of those issues for us, it was so, so, so good. Yeah. So why is Java easier than c plus plus?

I mean, for, for me it was, um, uh, the, the, uh, garbage collection and I don't have to think so much about the memory management, it's, it's just there. It works. I Mostly take memory management for granted now.

Yeah, We did. So I think it's been a really good talking to you. Yeah, It was very nice.

And, uh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

And uh, good luck in your next interviews. Yep.