Carving Your Own Path with Mala Gupta – Techstrong Unplugged EP17

Hey everybody, and welcome back, toted Strong Un Unplugged. This is episode 17 of our series, and I'm your host, Natan Solomon on Techstrong Unplugged. We dive into all things tech and get people up to speed with everything happening across the industry.

Recently, our cos Cassandra Chin went to the Great International Developer Summit, also known as gis 2024 at gis. Cassandra sat down with Mala Gupta, who is an accomplished Java champion and developer advocate for Jet Brains. Mala Touches is on her experience as an author and emphasizes the imports of carving your own path professionally and beyond.

Without further ado, let's it over to GID 2024. Welcome back to Textron Unplugged. I'm your host Cassandra Chin, and we have Maah with us here.

Hi, Cassandra. It's, it's a pleasure to see you again. Um, I know I saw you at DevNexus.

I did get an opportunity to talk with you, but I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm happy as well to see you. Thank You so much.

Pleasure. See you do a short introduction. Uh, yes.

Uh, I'm an author, uh, JAMA Champion. I work as a developer advocate with Jet Pains, and I'm really passionate about, um, helping developers understand, uh, about the new Java features, how they could use them, and how they should not be using them. How did you get started in, Um, how much time do you have?

Probably we'll need a couple of hours to talk about it. No, I'm just kidding. So, started way back when I was in school, so when I was in Class sixth, so we, uh, had, uh, programming interviews in our school.

So I was 10 years old, and that was the day I decided I want to be a programmer. I loved to write programs day in and day out, and I was probably the first person to complete those programming exercise and hand it over to our teacher and just wait for her feedback. And, and that never stopped.

So, um, that, and then I did my, um, uh, bachelor's in computer science and here I am coding all, all, all these years. So you said like you gave assignments to your teacher? No, no.

Uh, I'm saying the assignments that the teacher used to give to us, I, I used to be the first person to complete those assignments and rush to her. I have completed assignments now, tell me what, uh, how did I do? And, uh, I want you to give me more assignments.

That, that kind of enthusiasm. I'm saying That's really enthusiastic. Oh, yes.

I, I still, but as we're talking, I, I can kind of replay all the sequences in my mind like a video. Um, I I I just love that part. Yeah.

Yes, I do. Yeah. And you said you're a Java champion?

Yes, I am. Have you Been involved with Java for a really long time? Um, ever since, uh, I would say so.

I've been programming for more than, I don't remember. That's, that's a long time. And that also says I'm too old, but that's okay.

Um, So I, I started with Visual Basic and I started with the, I think Oracle Forms. I don't remember what the other one was. Oracle Reports maybe.

But then we heard about this, uh, Neo, right ones run everywhere feature for Java. Coming in the web was kind of gaining traction a lot. It was be becoming really popular and Java was kind of, um, seen as a language that could, was taking it by Strom.

And that was when I, I gravitated towards Java and never looked back. So Java's always been there for you? Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. Do you still code on Java a little bit? A lot.

A Lot, Yes, I do. Do you spend a lot of time writing Java Application? Uh, that's, that's an interesting question because I write a lot of Java code, but now the role that I am, so I'm a developer advocate.

Uh, my role, one of main roles is to help others understand the new features or, or, uh, multiple features of Java. So I don't try production code, I write a lot of demo code, but I do write kind of, uh, have site projects where I'm building, um, small applications, doing a lot of, uh, fun stuff, cool stuff. So sometime back I created an application for my daughter.

She, she is doing Bachelors of Design, and she was looking for an application where she could, uh, find the exact, um, color cloth in, in a, in, um, let's say, um, a factory or something. So, so that was a fun, uh, project that I built for her. So I, I keep building small projects and yes, I, I, I do code every day.

So you're like using your knowledge to write small projects Yes. To teach others? Yes.

Yes, you can say that. Yes. I think what's really great, yes, The coding really gives me a high even now.

So there was an opportunity sometime back to move to a role that would not require me to kind of, not require would be wrong word. They said, you, hell, you wouldn't be writing a lot of code. I said, no, I don't want to do that.

So you mentioned that you wrote a book? Uh, yes. I, I've written multiple books, um, five, I guess, So A lot of books.

Yeah. And you've talked about how, like following in your footsteps. What is your belief on that phrase?

Uh, Yes. It, it, that's an interesting story because whenever I talk about it, I have written a couple of books. Uh, a lot of people ask me, so Marla, what can we do to kind of follow your footsteps?

And I have a very strong opinion that no one should be following anyone else's footsteps and really carve their own path. Because, uh, when I see any person who has, uh, who I see as a very successful person, I only see their success. I kind of miss the learnings that they had along the path when they failed one time or multiple times.

And they learn a lot of beautiful things. So carve your own path and you never know what you would want to be or what you want to do when you are, uh, carving that path for yourself. So the adventure, the not knowing things is, I, I, I find that interesting.

I find that saying interesting because I actually get asked that a lot. If I'm following in my dad's footsteps, Uh, I could sense that I could sense that because he, he's a dog star, so of course, that's an obvious question. So what's a better way I can tell people that I'm different than him?

You, You definitely are different than him. You, you just say that. Just, just look at our career paths.

I'm already a rock star. He became a rock star now. And so You are all good subject of my own thing.

Yes, Of course. Of course. You are, you are.

And I believe you wanna talk about other, like, personal values? Um, yes. So the couple of values that I, uh, that really close to my heart and that makes me, that makes the person that I am, um, uh, I would say being trustworthy and, um, uh, let's Focus on being trustworthy.

Okay. So why do you think that's really important? Um, because when I say, so, being a trustworthy trust could be, could sound like a small word, but when you kind of grow older, you know how much important that is.

Uh, I should be able to trust my friends and, and the people that I work with, with anything and everything that we do together, we could kind of, uh, agree to disagree on things, but it should not be, uh, like agreeing in public, but disagreeing otherwise, that creates a lot of friction and miscommunication between teams and, uh, at work. And the same applies to friends, friend groups or otherwise. So for me, being trustworthy is, is really important.

And on that note, I, I would like to say the people who are trustworthy, that trickles down to whatever they do. If I'm trustworthy, if I work with people who are trustworthy, that value would kind of, uh, trick into the code that I'm writing. I would meet my coach to do things.

What it says on that, um, long list of, uh, things that you accept. So I, um, I think that, uh, trickles down to everything that I do. How do you build trust as it just talking to people or as an exchange of ideas?

That's, that's a really interesting question. Um, I haven't thought about it, but of course, when we, when we talk with people, when we work with people, we kind of realize if, if the person is trustworthy or not. Because if a person betrays your trust, that might not be just one off thing.

That could be a pattern, because people never do things just one off without any patent, because that has to have a really, uh, strong value system that they have off, uh, of their own. So if I'm working with anyone, who would I see as not trustworthy? Probably not, not my people, but Is it really good to write off an individual as just not being trustworthy?

Um, that, that really depends because I, I am that kind of person because as I said, it's, it's not a one off thing. It's, it's a pattern. And over my years in my personal life and professional life, I have seen this people who are, uh, straight and who would say things which you would like, but those are the right things.

Those are the peoples who I would say are trustworthy. They, you could depend on them and you know that the values that they have, they do not bend it for anyone. And that speaks volumes about the person and the work that they do.

So I would say, um, even though it might sound harsh that I would sign up the person as, uh, not being trustworthy and not blah, blah, blah, but that, that's all I am, Fully understand your viewpoint, That that's, that's who I am. And I would not bend that for myself because I, I would be the person most hurt at the end of the day. And I, I need to protect myself as well.

Yeah. So like for your, are there any other values which you think really speak home to you? Um, if it's a talking about, let's say, uh, people like you who are getting started.

Uh, I would say explore, talk with people. Try to, don't, don't, um, I know I, I, I don't have to tell this because the age you are in, you, you probably are better placed, uh, on, on those things. Like talking with people and exploring things and not limiting, not, uh, having any limits to anything that you try to think or do.

Uh, because there a lot of things that we know and so many things that we don't know. So exploring is, is, is one thing that I would like, uh, to do. I, I, I still do that.

I still do that. I know I'm aware, but I, I still, uh, do that a lot. So, um, not, not, uh, not being fearful of trying out things.

What are some ways to explore? Um, there could be, uh, a lot of things to do. One is to talk with people and to understand what is it that interests you.

And then you might gravitate towards a few of the things. And when you find that connection, try them. Because unless and until you try them out, you, you will not kind of understand.

So, so this is, um, uh, one of the examples when I started, uh, speaking, uh, uh, at conferences, so I think that was 2018. And my first international conference was JBCN. That was in 2018.

And that was a lot of, um, I would say painful procedure for me. I, I was traveling, uh, I was traveling alone. I had no clue what to do, blah, blah, blah.

Lot of fears and this kind of thing. But I, I followed my heart. Uh, I, I, I went there and I, uh, presented my session and I'm so happy that I did because I learned so many things.

So again, it's like you kind of have, if you have any, um, uh, uh, how do I, how do I express that? If you think you are liking something, go for it. You never know what you kind of make of it.

It can be really difficult. 'cause traveling alone and giving a talk for the first time, Oh yes, it, it was, I I was kinda asking myself questions. Why am I doing this to myself?

Why am I kind of doing this for, for the people that I don't know, the audience that I don't know. But I, I, I, I did it and I, I don't regret even a bit of it. I, I'm loving the, the friends that I made on that day.

I met so many amazing people. I still get to see those people. I, I get to talk about what I like.

So, So those people you met, you feel like you've built a relationship built on trust? I would say yes, because, um, so trust really comes in, uh, when we are working together. So if I'm just saying hi to a person, then I might not be talking about trust.

But, uh, when I went there, I, I met with the organizers, Jonathan Nacho, the amazing people. I, I still see them around and I, yes, I do have a relation with them, and trust is one of the big factors because they trusted me, they invited me to present at their conference, and I trusted them to kind of, uh, help me with whatever I would need. And so that was a trust, well, uh, build form.

It's still there. And so It's kind of an exchange where you know, that you can rely on the person Absolutely. And they can rely on you.

Absolutely. It's, it's a two-way street. It's a two-way street.

It's a two-way street. Definitely. Yeah.

I think that's really important. Yes. Yes, it is.

Yeah. So I think we've had a really good talk, Mala, about lots of personal values and I've definitely learned a lot from Mayo. Thank you so much, Cassandra.

It was a pleasure to talk with you. And I, I'm very proud of what you're doing and um, I wish you good luck and I hope you do much better. Uh, you already rockstar.

Thank you. You're a rockstar too. Oh, thank you so much.

Thank you.