The Future of AI Development | TSG Ep. 868

Hey, everyone has HPE become just another Nvidia AI factory town. You're watching Text On Game. Hey everyone, happy Thursday.

It's Alan Hummel for Techron Gang. Thanks for joining us today. We've got a lot to go over, including news and a report on the HPE conference happening out in Las Vegas, some of it at the sphere.

Um, let me introduce you to our gang members today as we've been doing lately, not a big introduction, but we're joined by regulars, John Schwartz, who's actually in Vegas. Terry Robinson, Mike Ard out in Denver, still at the, uh, open source conference. And, and yours truly here though, by the time you're watching this, I'll be in New York at Platform Con.

Um, Mike, I guess we'll go to you and throw it to John h p's put on quite a show out there in Vegas. They first I've heard of a, a conference host using the sphere, which is I think a great idea. But, um, beyond the, the, uh, the optics of that is this really being, you know, are they marionettes on the strings of Nvidia?

What's going on? Right. It sure seems that way because not only is HPE using the same terminology to describe Yeah, essentially building AI workloads on, on-premise it environments.

But Teradata was out this week saying the same thing, and I've seen Dell use the same terminology. And anybody who kind of builds anything that looks like a server that goes into a local data center is suddenly singing the same tune. And Nvidia kind of seems to have scripted it, which is this notion of an AI factory.

But John, I'm in Denver. You're there. What's your take?

Yeah, so it's interesting. You stole my, you guys are stealing my thunder. I was gonna refer to these, the, uh, Nvidia as the puppeteer and all this, because coming even down to the keynote speech, I'm just looking at something that, uh, the CEO of HPE, Mr.

Neri said, he said, uh, assume it will be it's responsibility to manage a digital workforce. That's like straight out of the NVIDIA playbook. Uh, we all had our, our, uh, Jensen Wang comment as well.

He wasn't in attendance. He was here last year, but, uh, he talked about the same Jensen Wang didn't Give, was not here. No, uh, what they should have done is they should have had an avatar of him that was generated by AI and have him appear on stage, because that was about the only thing missing from the presentation.

And if I can just be really quick about the presentation at the sphere. You're right, Alan, they used the sphere almost, it almost upstaged the entire announcement. But it also, I think in a weird way, you have a brilliant stroke because they're, they're showing what you can do with their technology as part of the presentation versus telling you they're showing you.

So in a sense, I mean, I'll give them credit for that, but, um, yeah, essentially what they want to do and what they're talking about is making the enterprise, putting it back into the hands, the era of AI into the hands of it. Um, they, they were, were kind of expanding on this previous agreement with Nvidia. And they were talking about this AI factory solutions with, with, um, composable solutions optimized for service providers, model builders, sovereign entities.

Um, they also talked about GreenLake intelligence. And basically they hammered home this idea that through networking and their, they hope soon to be completed acquisition of Juniper through their hybrid cloud, and then through their AI strategy, they are going to be the solution for the enterprises. Um, Neri made a good point that, that a, in a sense, the enterprise adoption of AI has been business led initiative.

It's not an IT led initiative. So now they wanna make the transition to the IT team and help them in administrative tasks. You know, in a sense, it's, it's pretty vanilla.

It's kind of bland, but it plays into the NVIDIA playbook. And I mean, and, and again, it's, it's sense of deja vu. Um, we get our prerequisite comments from Jensen.

We get the, uh, the hugging or the, the kissing of the ring of Nvidia. But I, in a, in a weird way, I think what HP was trying to articulate, and, and, and I, we talked to Daniel Newman who's here about it. It's in a sense they differentiate themselves from their competitors in a sense with the way they presented this, um, with their software strength and the hybrid cloud.

So it was overall an effective presentation. And, you know, you, you're gonna have to start pulling out all the stops. 'cause there's so many of these announcements that are basically tread, treading or trodding over the same ground saying the same thing, the same phrasing.

It's almost as if NVIDIA has decided they are going to be part of the presentation of every conceivable enterprise announcement in, in this field. And it, they're imprints everywhere. Maybe, you know, I look at this stuff and I scratch my head a little bit and I go, you know, they're, they're so busy on the hype and following the thing that they're kind of missing the point.

And what seems to be happening is that I would say the first generation of AI platforms were built by data science teams that had their own internal IT infrastructure people attached to that. And they built a single application that ran on a single set of hardware and servers. It might have been in the cloud, but a lot of times it was in an on-premise environment.

As this evolves, it's pretty clear that every application's gonna have some AI capability, and we're gonna need infrastructure that can run multiple AI applications, and it's gonna have to be managed at a level of scale that is highly distributed. And that requires the traditional IT team to show up and kind of manage all that stuff because the folks attached to the data science team are not gonna be able to do this at scale. And that's why you see HPE and Dell and everybody else showing up saying, you know, we need something that feels more like a, a little more turnkey, like traditional servers versus all this custom infrastructure that we've been building out for the last couple of years.

And in my mind, that's, that's the big shift here. And everybody else seems to be kind of just, you know, trying to say it's gonna be an AI factory. Frankly, I don't really like that term 'cause who the hell wants to go to work in a factory, but, Well, they, they, well, according, according to our government, we got a lot of work.

Does that, you know? Yeah, I know. You know, I have a few other thoughts here.

Look, if it's, if it's Nvidia, who's pulling the strings at all of these shows, does that make Jensen, El, pa Gino the Godfather, right? You kinda like the, the Mario Puzo thing, but Mike, to your point, look, I think the first generation of AI stuff was very much experimentation. It was very much first generation, and it was sort of bespoke, you know, custom kind of thing done for very specific tasks and, and solution sets.

But now we're looking at ai, you know, to do a buzz and woody meme. Look, Woody ai, as far as the eye can see, right? AI for everything.

And in order to do that at scale, you are going to need mega factories like where Elon produces his batteries or wherever, right? You, you're going to need these. And, and, and quite frankly, we so much, at least our focus here at Textron on AI is how AI helps generate code and makes, can make us more secure and can help us build platforms.

And you know, how we use ai and it, well, let's not forget that much of software development today is done in a software factory where we have different teams on the factory. In the factory, we have developers, we have platform engineers, we have DevOps engineers, we have SREs and security folk, right? All working on the factory floor, so to speak.

So now that factory's an AI factory, same people, different name meet the old boss, same as the new boss. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like the, it's, it's, it's the f whatever. What did Benioff call it? I always, I always hated that phrase, but it was the fourth industrial revolution, whatever the hell it was.

Um, HP and I talked to a couple of the executives here. They're just hammering home, trying to reach the CIO level, the IT level as the service brokers, the folks who are gonna put this into play. So yeah, we, we can romanticize about the beginning and the innovation.

Now we're kind of reaching the mass deployment where things become a little bit more watered down and not as exciting or sexy. They're, there's, they're trying to be more practical. So we're gonna see, we're gonna get hit in the head with this over and over again.

No, I, I think so. I, I think the bigger issue is, so you take your hps and your IBMs and your Amazons and your Googles and your Microsofts and, and all of these other, you know, oracles, you know, the, the big tech players who can, you know, churn out these factories for large enterprises, and how are they, how are they separating themselves, right? So Nvidia is a tide that's lifting all of these boats, but are they truly interchangeable or will we see, you know, spheres of influence, spheres of, uh, of, of specialization that separate HP from Dell, from IBM?

Or if they're all the same and it's a commodity race down the toilet bowl, that doesn't bode well for these companies. I don't know. It's really the same.

But I will also point out that will happen for sure, as CIOs will be getting out their pencils and they'll be grad these AI project bills and there'll be like a bill running through Congress. There'll be so many additional writers and things that they're adding to that, that have nothing to do with AI because they just wanna make sure that they get approval for a hundred other things. And Yeah, we blame for that either.

That's the way of it. So as much as things change, they stay the same. Anyway.

John, is is the show over now or is today? No, It's still going. There's gonna be a second keynote I talked to.

Uh, there's a lady who, who oversees, she came from my, from Intel a couple of years ago. Trish, uh, Dan Kroger, who's gonna be giving that, Who applied for asylum or something, or Yeah, yeah. I can't get outta here soon enough.

Um, but, uh, yeah, no, it's, it, it's an interesting show. You know, I, when when I see these, uh, when I see these things, I'm trying to figure out what is it unique about these companies that they're gonna announce? And for the most part, there really, really isn't much.

So I'm always trying to find, and I think we we're all kind of talking about this, this idea of how do you differentiate yourself and not become part of this morass of, uh, of mediocrity, right? Where you're just stuck in the, in the middle and, and, and Foot soldiers in the Nvidia crime family. Yeah, exactly.

Wow. Yeah. I didn't think of it that way, but, um, yeah.

Um, yeah, let's stick with that. That's more interesting. Yeah.

But, uh, yeah, no, I think what they, what they were trying to do is they were using the sphere. I mean, cynically, they're using the sphere as the star of the show. And so they had two events here.

They had the keynote, which is pretty effective. And then they had a concert later. So, uh, they're trying to spend as much time there as they are actually at the convention center.

Well, The sphere is spectacular. Who? Oh, it's play with the concert.

Yeah. Oh, it's Kenny Chesney. Yeah.

Well, There now. Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. I must, yeah, But, so, I mean, you know, the thing too is I, I wonder if, and the people at HPE were telling me that they actually, that, you know, they admitted to me about off the record, like we're, we know we're considered a dull company, but we think the way we use this venue might influence the way other companies do it. I think they're onto to something.

I wouldn't be, I wouldn Surprised I wouldn't. I think other companies will too. Now, service Now will probably do it.

Adobe definitely should do it here. Um, I can't wait to see what Nvidia does with it. Nvidia would do it in spectacular job.

But, um, y'all see, Alright. I would, I would encourage as many venues as possible to use the sphere so that the Dolans will have enough money to buy a good center for the Knicks. Oh gosh.

I, you know what, we're gonna end this one. We'll take a break. Be right back here on the text.

Hey folks, we're back on the B block and we're talking about, well, what's real and what's not real here with these AI coding tools for developers. I mean, clearly there are advances that are being made, but there's always this kind of hype cycle around this stuff. And you hear people talking about, well, we won't need developers.

Developers won't need the code. They'll just review code and we'll get rid of most of the developers and we'll only have architects from here. And there's all kinds of noise in the system all over the place.

So we have this article, and it's a moment in time and it basically outlines what actually works and what may not work so well. And one of the things that works well is anything to do with project management. And it will definitely generate code, but a lot of that code may not know enough about the environment it's gonna run in.

So it lacks a lot of context. So human developers might have to go in there and tweak it and make it work for that environment. But then again, they didn't write it in the first place, so they didn't know how it works.

So now they're feeling, well, maybe I should have just wrote this whole thing from the ground up myself, Alan, you know, you hear all the same noises I hear. What's, what's real in your mind here, and where are we on this journey? You know, I, I would say we're still at the beginning of the beginning, not even at the end of the beginning when it comes to AI generated code.

And, and, and, and what I find interesting, Mike, is the proficiency of AI generated code and, and the progression wave of how it's getting better, I think closely mimics the progression wave of AI generated text writing, right? When, when, when AI first came out, it was very easy to spot something that was written by ai. It had, it was cold, it was, it, it, it, it just, it was easy to spot.

It's gotten much harder though. I think it's still, for instance, I think this article on Devox was AI assisted, let's call it. Um, I think it's the same thing with code.

You know, the latest version of Claude, what do they call it? Claude code or something like this, is, is supposed to be much, much better at, at generating usable code for the foreseeable future. And when we're talking in text, foreseeable future six months, right?

12 months at the most. I think AI generated code is still a question of having a co-pilot in the co-pilot chair next to you. I don't think, except for the most rudimentary kind of apps that you could probably do in no code today anyway.

You, you would have, you would be relying on AI generated code for the majority, for the heavy lift, right? I, i, I just don't, I I don't think it's there yet. It seems like these things get better in, in, in leaps, right?

Every six months or so, there seems to be a leap forward. And Terry, I wanna get your opinion on something here. 'cause somebody was telling me this this morning.

He said, you know, the leap that we saw at the beginning of this year, the tools actually recognize, you know, SQL injection vulnerabilities, which has been the number one flaw since staying for, for a decade now. And they were saying, Hey, we might get to a point soon where that's no longer gonna be an issue because AI coding tools will actually not generate those types of vulnerabilities. However, they will generate other types of Vulnerabilities.

Well, therein lies the problem because I, I think that's right. I've heard that as, as well. Um, these, these tools are gonna, you know, really spot the security issues or some things, the SQL injection being one.

But, um, and, and that'll be good for security, right? But it's gonna, it's, it's still, uh, can be used equally, um, for bad, I think. And there are gonna be some things that are missed and this vulnerable code will be repeated.

I mean, there are still all of those issues. Um, I think what it's really super good for is putting it up for review. You know, putting your code up for review and seeing if there are any issues, um, there.

But I think Alan, you're kind of right. It has to be there, you know, as a co-pilot, right? Because there has to be this human oversight and this monitoring.

Um, otherwise, uh, I think it could be a disaster. Uh, as far as security is concerned. And security is though security, I always preach that security be, security should be synonymous with quality.

There are other quality issues beyond security with AI generated code. Is it, is it resource the most resource efficient code, right? Is it run like a pig or is it really optimized?

Now, one may say that the, a great use of AI is having the human right to code and maybe asking the AI to optimize it, right? And maybe that's what Dece, but you know, there's a lot we could do. But, but Mike, to your point and what I was saying off the top is, look, this is progressing.

You know, this is, this is multiplying faster than triples on Star Trek. And, um, you know, nine months from now, who knows how good a year from now, a year and a half from now, you know, this, we, we will be eating our words. But as, as we look today, this is, I think the state of the art.

There is an interesting generational divide starting to emerge where the younger developers are saying, well, this is great. It makes me more productive and I can create stuff. And I think that appeals to maybe the senior level business executives.

'cause they hear that that means that I can use, uh, developers with less experience. But the older developers are saying, conversely, this is great 'cause I don't need any junior developers running around 'cause I can use AI to do all this stuff. And that they will be the primary beneficiaries thereof, and they will become more efficient.

And it will be just harder than ever for your junior developers to break into the field in the first place. 'cause junior developers don't know anything about how that app runs in, say, a retail environment or, or financial services or whatever it is. I don't know how much of this is kinda, you know, just old guard versus new guard, but it's an interesting conversation that's being had Out.

Well, yeah. And then where does that, I mean, you have to think beyond that a little bit. Where does that put younger developers later on in terms of their trajectory, you know, to develop?

I mean, if all of this stuff they're being replaced at sort of the, the lower levels even, um, then we're not really developing a cadre of developers that have the expertise and can move forward. You know? Um, Well I I call this the reverse Logan's run.

Speaking of generational gaps, Mike, make reference to my Star Trek reference, but it's a reverse Logan's room, right? If, if we kill everyone when they're 30, we don't have any people over 30. And, and, and it's the same thing.

If we don't have junior developers cutting their teeth, we don't, you know, eventually when those senior developers run out, you don't have anyone taking their place other than maybe the ai Okay? So that, that will be a lost art, Maybe not one that we should lose. I mean, there's some things that I, if you lose them, I absolutely agree we shouldn't lose it.

But are we destined for the servo chairs in Wally Walleye, whatever the movie was. I, you know, I don't know. I I, I'm concerned about that.

I also get concerned about, and this is going to really make me sound like an old fogey out there somewhere. I get concerned about developers who then come up in sort of this newer environment and they don't have that sort of experience of way back when development, the environment was locked down and, you know, things were done a certain way and with a lot of attention to, I guess, security, um, as maybe more than today. But I do worry about that, You know, but, so guys, let me just say this though.

We've been doing Textron Gang now for, is it 18 months? Something like that. And we've been talking about AI for at least that long, you know, a text talk, and we've been having the same conversation.

Is AI good at coding? Is AI gonna replace my coders? Is ai, you know, is it in terms of Any type of content creation, will it replace whomever, not just coders, but writers, writers, Editors, Editors, Tv, video hosts, editors, Yes.

Could be, you know, am I real or am I in ai? But, um, you know, and we, we've seen progress, as you say, Mike leaps and bounds and progress. I mean, I don't even think it's every six months.

I think it's every couple weeks with that renew release of one of these pays, you know, they do better. Do you still, you know, at some point though, does the, does that progression graph curve flatten out, right, where we can't make further, uh, improvements without some hot new chip? I mean, is there like a wars law kind of thing here where it continues on that upward trajectory?

Man, if I knew the answer to that, I probably wouldn't be doing this. Um, so, but, but I think that's really the issue. Not a question of where we are today, but how fast tomorrow comes.

Yeah. And I just feel like right now too much of this conversation is wrapped around the fear factor and everybody's trying to kinda, and I don't know, some, you know, you read stuff in the Times and they'll say, you know, see the C level execs are trying to use AI as a boogeyman to, you know, whip the labor force into line. Um, others would say, you know, the fact of the matter is that it's the labor force that may benefit most.

'cause a lot of that toil that wears them out and kind makes them cranky at the end of the day, might get eliminated. But, you know, it's not, not for the pioneer With your jobs, right? You know, so some with the job, it's, it, well, the caveat is, oh, but there'll be better jobs.

So there will be better jobs. I don't know what they'll be, but there'll be better jobs. But it's the thing, you wanna know the truth.

None of that matters. None of that matters because we live in a market driven economy, in a market driven system. And if someone could do it better, faster, cheaper, they will in spite of what the focus in New York City may think.

Right? We're not communists, we're not even socialists. If, if someone could do it, if some, if I could use something to do it better, faster, cheaper, I will, and the market will reward me.

That's, that's the bottom line. So we could wr our hands and woes me all we want, but that's the realities of, of the market fair. I, I would say that it's fair.

I just don't think it's gonna reach a point where it, it does not require some sort of human supervision oversight anytime soon. It Shouldn't reach that point. They said the same thing about driving cars, Of of which, you know, most people are not driving Anyway.

We, we shall see, we shall see. As, As I look out my window, I do not see any self-driving cars going by right now. I know, but three, four generations.

Four generations. Well, yeah, Austin and Phoenix. Yeah.

Three Phoenix or four generations ago, Mike, your grandpa or great-grand, looked out the window and said, I don't see any horseless carriages that Kim. So, I mean, there is that. And, and, and, and if he did, he yelled out the window and told the guy to get a horse.

Well, that, but that was a, I I saw a meme on this recently, right? A guy telling a horse, don't worry, something's gonna have to pull these carriages. You know, that we weren't gonna replace the horse after all.

I think the horse might like to be replaced, to be honest with you. Let's get awfully tiresome pulling those carriages. Absolutely.

Anyway, all right, let's take a break. We'll come back here on block C four, the Text on gang. Good conversation.

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Contact us today and tell your story to the world in the most powerful way with Techron Group. All right, we're back talking about our final block, which is cybersecurity focused in the sense of, well, you know, there are these people out there, bad folks adversaries, and they too have access to ai and turns out that they've been doing a little innovative work on their side as well. Terry, you were a story talking about how the bad guys are using Grok and Mistrals mixed troll platform now, and how much of this is gonna continue.

'cause it seems like, you know, from my perspective, they may be doing this faster than the good guys Are. I think the bad guys are always a little bit faster than the, than the good guys. Um, that's just my opinion.

But, um, yeah, so, um, you know, this all centers, our, the conversation starts with warm GPT and you guys might remember, I mean, follow me back to the summer of 2023, and it had its sort of blaze of glory warm GPT for about a month, right? And, um, and then one of the founders actually, I guess shut it down, uh, was getting ready to get in a little bit of trouble. Um, and that happened.

And so, um, I think when I was working on the story, I thought, this is a surprise, but not a surprise because you expect, uh, uh, generative AI and whatever to, uh, be insinuated into just about everything, uh, uh, these days. Um, and also you don't ever expect that worms and other things go away completely, right? They always seem to come back and, and, uh, and have a, a new life.

And, uh, worm, GPT was kind of interested because while the, the sort of original flavor went away, um, it's been sort of the basis, um, for these, these, uh, these, these worms, uh, that are a, that are AI powered through, I guess the last couple of years. Um, it's, I think somebody called them. It's like the, the Kleenex of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of worms.

But, and so everybody, you know, it, a lot of these things have been built on, uh, worm, GGPT as sort of ended up, um, happening the stuff for a while. And, um, really the folks over at Cato Control went back and looked at the last couple of years and found out that, um, a couple of strains, um, had emerged that were powered by gr our, uh, mixed trial. And, um, that's got some interesting implications for security for sure.

Do you have a sense of whether these strains are more lethal or less lethal than the strains that humans created? Or, or is it just gonna be, there's a lot more of 'em? I think there's a lot more of 'em, but I also think that maybe the, the real issue here is it allows, um, attacks to scale.

Um, it's, uh, I guess the, the, the breadth and the depth of, um, the problems that it can cause with security is, is just much greater. So in that sense, maybe more lethal. Yeah.

Alan, The other thing that I'm seeing too is it seems like the malware as of late is better at evading the defenses that we have. And I got a sneaking suspicion that that may be because somebody's using AI tools to keep generating new variants of the same malware that makes it difficult to detect, but, Well, Mike, I've heard rumors that a lot of these variants were actually developed in a lab in Wuhan and, and, and they've escaped into the wild. But, um, you know, shades of mRNA.

But I mean, here, here's, here's, here's the, all kidding aside here. Here's the fact. I I had this conversation the other day with the, the CIO of a company called Deep Instinct.

They, they, they have an AI that helps with security. Don't think for a second, for even a millisecond, that the people who propagate worms, the, the bad guys, the black hats, whatever you wanna call them, are not as proficient or maybe even more proficient than some of the best security people we have. And so, of course, they're using AI to polish up and upgrade Uplevel upskill their work.

You're seeing it across the board. Look at the phishing emails you get now compared to what you used to get. You know, phishing emails used to look like they were written by Boris and Natasha, you know, kill squirrel.

But now they, I mean, they, you gotta look really close. They're written really, really well. Well, that's, as you were saying in the earlier segment about ai, you know, generated writing has gotten so much better.

It's the same. Yeah. So why, why wouldn't, why wouldn't these guys be running their worms and, and, and telling the AI to create a variant?

Now, this is where you get into this whole issue though, of do you have guardrails on your AI and LLM that if someone says, create a variant of this worm, it says, no, I can't do that. And then you're gonna have, you know, unlocked ais and LLMs that are only too happy to do that for you. And you set up this whole kind of underground of, of, of, you know, against the Empire Renegade ais turning, turning out this stuff.

Um, or if you're a researcher, researchers might have valid reasons for asking an AI to do a variant of some code thing to, you know, similar to fuzzing in, in terms of task and code and everything. So this is not as a, uh, this is not an as easy thing as, as you would think, Terry. It doesn't look to me like the guardrails that are in place really do much.

'cause from what I'm reading, the, the bad guys figured out how to work their way around those things pretty Easily. Right? And that's ev just about everybody that I talked to for this story said that, right, the guardrails don't work, which means you're gonna have to rethink what those guardrails might be.

Well, they don't work today, they don't, but maybe, maybe we got more, more thought into making better guardrails. Well, maybe so, and um, is the answer around like, sort of, we, we've talked about this before, maybe limiting AI automation, would that, you know, uh, uh, help better monitoring, um, to, to try to, to, to, to spot the problems and then adjust your guardrails accordingly? Perhaps maybe guardrails aren't solid, maybe they are a little bit, uh, flexible.

Um, I don't, I'm a security person saying that, I'm sorry to say, but I think that's possibly the case and, you know, um, I, the but the guardrails clearly aren't holding up at this stage. No. I mean, again, I, I, you know, guardrails are sort of artificially grafted on to the ai.

They're not, maybe we need to design AI guardrails built in from the get go. And maybe there'll be, I I don't know what the right answer is, is, is the bottom line. Well, that probably Hits on it.

It too is, you know, it, there's a very, you know, this is stronger evidence that we shouldn't bolt on security any longer. I mean, and that's what's happened with AI because, uh, generative AI and at particular, because of it's rapid growth and Any topic with every technological innovation for as long as I've been in tech 30 close years, No, but this has potential to just explode. So, you know, so quickly.

And I think that's, um, so yeah, I'd like to see, um, those guardrails bit built in from the get-go. Well, here's, here's what I think is wrong with the guardrails, is the people who are building 'em are the same people who build the LLMs and they're designing those LLMs to be as useful and as friendly as possible. And well guardrails kind of go against that notion.

So maybe the folks who build the guardrails should not be the same people who are building the LLMs. Yep. 100%.

Or they need to at least work In concert, right? Is that Mm-hmm. Alright.

Um, guys, I think that's gonna wrap up our textual gang. Mike, you're due home tomorrow, John, you're coming home tomorrow, I take it, uh, I am coming home tonight or to the SE today. Yes.

Whatever today is. Yes, I'll be on, I dial I'll be on the gang. I'll be on the Gang from Denver tomorrow, but then I'm hopping on a plane immediately.

I feel like I need to go someplace so I can come home Or, yeah, you gotta, we, we whyt you go to the next Las Vegas AI show, Jerry. I might do it. Maybe they do it at the sphere and talk about Yeah, the sphere.

Have a good time. Alright. Until next time though, wherever you are, enjoy Text drunk TV immediately following our gang show today.

And until then is Alan Shemel. We're out.