Techstrong Gang – May 9, 2025

Hey, everyone, look out. Your open source lab may have just shut down. You're watching text again.

Hey, everyone, happy Friday. It's Alan Shimmel for Textron Gang. Boy is this, this one promises to be epic.

I think you're gonna really love what we've got. We've got an amazing gang. We've got a live studio audience.

We've got the, the applause and laugh track signs ready to light up, but we've got some really good stuff to talk about. But first, let me introduce you to who, who we got talking today. First of all, coming at us from Huntington Beach, where she just got off the backpack trail.

Can we still say you're a future of analyst, Kimberly? Uh, no. Officially May 2nd was my last official day.

Um, I'm turning all those responsibilities over to, you'll see Guy and a bunch of other people that are showing up here. But I am st. You can say I am an analyst.

You'll always be an analyst to me, lady. There we go. Emeritus, Analyst Emeritus Emeritus.

Steven came up with your new title. Beautiful Know. Just need more time to go and backpack and hike and all that kind of stuff.

We All need that. And Lu on the Yankees. It's our favorite Yankee fan in Colorado.

Kimberly Bates. Hey, Kimberly. It's good to have you on and thanks for coming on.

Also, joining us from deep in the heart of Austin, Texas, R two, our good friend Robert Reeves. Robert, how you doing? Oh, I'm doing well.

You know, look, when I, um, really looking forward to this weekend, 'cause when I'm not struggling to balance the, you know, that, that push and pull between open source and capitalism, I like to work on old Chevy Square bodies. And I've got, uh, an Eight. Is that like a box nova kind of thing?

Uh, no, that's, no, it's not. I'm up older than you. A box A box Chevy was a box nova to me, but Mitchell shaking said he knows It.

Yeah. Got 84 old Army Blazer. Oh, Very cool.

And the last Part I need is coming in Saturday. Very cool. And I'll finally get a shipping outta first year part.

Oh, yeah, yeah, the last part. Good for you, man. Always the last part.

All right. Moving on from Texas. Let's go up to Colorado.

We've got our guitar dude, Mitch Ashley. Hey, Mitch. How are you?

Really good. You know, I, I don't know who to call now to phone a friend when I'm not sure what to say. 'cause everybody's here.

This is great. Everyone is here. This is awesome.

You know, I, I felt like I was running a shuttle bus today picking people up at the hotel, the Techstrong Express. There you go. But not here, but in DC at the Nutanix, at the Nutanix, uh, conference.

And he has friends I hear over there too are gonna be making guest appearances, our Chief Content officer, and well, another big Yankee fan, Mike Ard. Hey, Mike, how are you? I'm well.

We may have a guest appearance for the B blocks. Stay tuned. Yeah, that would be cool.

Yeah, so stick around and then making his debut in studio for the first time. Weighing in a lean felt, I don't know, hundred. Don't, let's not guess that.

Let's not even guess. I'm not good at that. Anyway, but he is the, the founder and president of, of Tech Field Day, frequent gang member guest.

Our good friend Steven fst. Steven, welcome to the big time here. I know, right?

I, I wasn't really supposed to be here, but I'm here in the office with, uh, for meetings and I just couldn't resist sitting at in Bonnie's chair here at the table. We, we, it's a pleasure to have you here, my friend. Good for you.

All right. Hey, let's jump into things. So, so here, you know, we're universities are being cut off from funds and losing their tax exempt status and everything else.

But now Mayo, Mayo, my Lions and Tigers and bears, they're shutting down open source labs. Mike, what, what's the deal here? Well, the deal is, it seems like they're trying to pass that hat around.

They need $250,000 to keep this open source lab open. And it's not clear where that's gonna come from. I guess they lost some funding from the federal government like everybody else in the university these days.

But Robert, I know you tracked this open source space pretty closely. Is this gonna become endemic? Are we gonna see more of this out there because, well, who is gonna fund open source?

Well, um, the, the sad news is yes, it will continue. Um, there is a pushback across all of it, uh, about where are they spending money, uh, is it part of open source foundations or, you know, look, if they are unable, if companies that rely on open source are unable to make a business case to leadership for budget, those budget items are gonna get cut. Uh, and it really comes down to companies, both providers of technology that is based on open source, but also consumers like large banks.

Um, they need to understand that, uh, if they don't support and fund these organizations, then they're not gonna have a business. Uh, it's not gonna be immediate, but it is gonna be a real challenge going forward. They need organizations like Open Source Labs, Linux Foundation, Apache Ross Foundation, all of them eclipse, uh, to, to continue to do the good work, uh, that allows open source to do what it does, which is to build and grow non-differentiated technology so that these companies can build their applications on top of it.

Uh, we are gonna continue to see more and more challenges around funding these organizations. You know, Robert, sometimes When these, you know, pressure gets put on budgets like this, and, you know, great labs like, like the open source lab, you know, come under scrutiny or they need to go out and get funds. It's never fun.

But one of the outcomes can be if, you know, hopefully it doesn't get shut down, but it does kind of get focused on, do we really need this? Yes, we need to fund it. Maybe there's a different model they need to add some additional, we might do some custom projects for people as well as, you know, general work.

You know, there's, there's opportunity in those tough changes, uh, to maybe adjust the quote unquote business model for that. So given that they're working between open source, you know, and, uh, you know, industry, I would imagine they'll have some of those conversations. So hopefully that'll lead to a good outcome.

It looked like. Well, I would hope so too. Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, it looked like what, when I was like doing some of the research for this call, um, it looked like the funding had been decreasing over time. And, um, that, and that gets back to what you're saying, Mitch is kind of like, where is the business value that they're bringing back to the people that are participating it? And I'm also wondering if this has been around for a very long period of time.

We've progressed to a certain level with open source in the market. It's almost ubiquitous in terms of organizations using it. So the maturity of it is much higher.

And, and maybe, you know, whatever OSU is doing right now, it's not, it's more of where open source used to be as opposed to where it is to today. Would that be possible? It could be.

You know, one, one of the examples I was thinking of is maybe they can, not to use the EAI word, but you can start to modernize some of it. And, uh, that might attract some funding for it too. So you kinda have to rethink new possibilities when these situations come up.

I got an idea. You know what, the beavers had a couple of good football seasons there. You got these players making NIL money 4, 3, 4, $5 million each for college kids playing football.

Can't they pass the hat around, come up with 250 grand to keep this open source thing open? Well, I did look at the endowment. The endowment is 891 million, But Alan, they're at the wrong university in Oregon.

Well, the, you could be at the Other one. Well, the Ducks did have a better year. You're right.

But, but the beavers, I think had a good year of the year before. Well, sure, but I'm talking about uncle, you know, uncle Phil. Yes.

Uncle Phil does give the uniforms there. You're Right. Um, which, which is, is interesting to me.

It, it, where is my Phil Knight in, uh, technology? Where is my Phil Knight, who has made quite a bit of money off of projects coming out of universities. Um, you know, I, I look, let, let's not forget where Netscape came from, uh, outta the University of Illinois.

And so, yeah, exactly. And so there is, um, you know, I like what Lance is doing at Open Source Labs. He's, he's, you know, he hit the alarm, pulled the alarm, um, and is seeking help.

And I think that they're going to get that, uh, $250,000 is a rounding error for a lot of these companies. But there is a huge amount of value that they're providing because yes, they do general hosting, but the number of platforms that they support is outstanding. They have got a mainframe, they've got System Z.

And so for open source projects wanting to expand into the mainframe, uh, this would be a great way for companies like banks, insurance companies that depend on, uh, mainframes to make certain that the open source that they depend on is working great on that mainframe. Um, that, that, that would be the way I would go and, and collect money for this. If I was slants, I'd be going and targeting large organizations dependent on mainframes and dependent on open source.

'cause they've got a great asset there, right? You would think IBM would kick inside the money for this particular project. But Alan, what's the probability that open source projects maintainers are gonna look outside the US for places to host their projects?

And heavens to Betsy, they might even go to China. Well, you know what, if we're talking universities and labs Yes. Excuse me, China and even Europe are, you know, they're actively recruiting these kinds of researchers and, and labs and so forth.

But, you know, so I, there's two, uh, there's two issues here in my mind. One is the university scene, which is where a lot of pure research and science get done, that leads to huge, huge commercial breakthroughs, such as a young Mark Andreessen working on Mosaic and and so forth, right? And becoming Netscape.

But the bigger issue is open source funding. I've been around the open source game for many, many years, and open source funding probably closely follows the s and p 500 curve, right? When things get tough.

A lot of companies, all of a sudden, and Robert, I'm sure you saw this at the lf, right? Things get tough. I know we, I know we, uh, you know, we signed up for a million bucks, but I, I could probably only do a quarter of a million, or we're gonna have to pull back a little bit.

I'm sorry. Our budgets are being cut. 'cause at the end of the day, it's hard for them.

It's a dotted line to revenue, open source, uh, supporting these. And that's the challenge. The dotted line needs to be a clear, broad, very dark line.

Um, and I would argue that that is the responsibility of foundations, open source contributors and maintainers, and the users. I think that open source consumers, people that are inside large Fortune 500, global 2000 companies need to get better about sharing the value of these projects with leadership and help them understand that, yes, we are saving money by not being tied to a vendor. We're able to negotiate better with our vendors by using open source and open standards that is saving us money.

But it doesn't just happen. We need to support these projects. I'd argue that that commitment of funding is far less than what they would pay to a vendor.

If we go back to the battle days of proprietary tech and vendor lock-in. Yep. But some people can't see me on their nose.

Yeah. And that, that's really what it comes down to, I'm afraid. Um, but look, this isn't a lot of money.

I think as, as you, a couple of you said, I think this, this particular case will have a happy ending. What's the bigger picture for open source funding? Uh, I think that's gonna be really dependent on whether, you know, how, how the economy goes.

I just look out to forward to fundraisers in the lab with football players showing up, you know, for autographs from the football team. Well, what you do is you get a big fake gold chain, and you give it out to the football player who gives the most money to, to an open source thing. There you go.

It works for interceptions and Fumbles. It's like, do you, would you wanna buy popcorn like the Boy Scouts? This is, you wanna pay, donate to the lab?

All righty. Hey, let's take a break here on the gang. We're gonna come back and, you know, Mike and, and maybe a special guest are at Nutanix.

Is it Nutanix Nation Nutanix next? Is that what they're calling it? Yes, it's next, but someone slipped Nation in here.

All right. You're watching Text on Gang. Hey, everyone, back here on the Gang.

You know, as I mentioned earlier, Mike Ard is down in DC at the Nutanix Next event. And, uh, you know, birds of a Feather flock together somehow. He hooked up there with Guy Courier.

Guy, of course, is Visible Impact principal analyst, Futura analyst, and man about town, as it seems. So Mike and Guy give us a report, a live report from the scene. All right, well, we're here with about 4,500 of our closest friends who are all dis descended into DC for this Nutanix Next conference.

And the big news of the show is an alliance with Pure Storage. They're gonna build a new type of system that's kind of a hybrid, in my mind at least. And it's trying to take the best of what they call a hyper converged structure and apply it to a three tier architecture and see if they can scale, but still make it simple.

Guy, I know you've been in a lot of these meetings. What's, what's the probability of this thing? Because right now it's just a preview.

Well, I think it's high probability. Um, I think, uh, the primary motivation for it, Mike, is, uh, current Nutanix customers asking for it. So I imagine they probably have a lineup of at least, you know, half dozen to a dozen current Nutanix customers currently running pure, uh, or, uh, pure storage, um, for applications who want to include that in their NUS, their, you know, that's the Nutanix storage system included in their NUS management.

Um, probably because it's the same applications that they're already using, um, Nutanix for. So I think it's extremely high probability. I don't really take it as a way to expand market for Nutanix, but Nutanix has a big fat market expansion target right now thanks to, uh, our friends at Broadcom.

Um, but I do think that, um, they're addressing, uh, a customer, current customer need to extend storage management outside of the hyperconverge that they've traditionally done with Nutanix, um, into, you know, a number of different areas, as you know, not news. Um, Dell Powerflex, uh, has, uh, become part of a Nutanix architecture, um, that went into a general, just within the past month or two. So they've completed that, which they announced last year.

This is another example of it Can't really, are we getting to get to something that feels like one single architecture? Will the, because when I was talking to Nutanix and they were saying 75% of people are still running three tier architectures after all these years. Will those people give up on that and move to something new, or it seems like they're pretty attached?

Um, yeah, they're pretty attached. I think how I see this is last year they, they announced the powerflex, which is, um, we had seen, um, that offering, which used to be called Scale io, and then it was some redesign, et cetera, rolls out as powerflex at Dell, um, being deployed in very, very, very large organizations that were deploying BDI environments, which, if you understand where Atomic came from, that is the core, that was the core of their business in initially. That was many, many years ago.

They've clearly expanded out into the database market and, and now they're into the Kubernetes space, et cetera. But one of the things about clients is that they needed, in order to really, to significantly scale, it was difficult to do so with the current architecture. And so Powerflex enabled this significant space of them to go, go and, and build out the storage space at the time they announced this.

Um, when we sat down with the, um, the organizations, um, we understood that they were gonna open this aperture to other companies. So this is the second company that they're opening that aperture to. Um, they've, uh, enabled, um, NVME capabilities with their, so there's should be some being able to address the database applications that, um, are they, they wanna address on that box.

So probably we'll see some sort of performance data maybe coming out of Nutanix that is a higher level of performance and the where they've been before on the database side, um, possibly, um, because of, you know, how, how they're gonna operate within that space. So this is, I'm, I, this does expand their tam because they can get into bigger environments. Um, oh, and I'll stop have one other commentary you asked.

Does this mean, you know, 75% of the areas are still three tier? Yes. Um, and some of that's because it's bare metal.

I'm gonna run my database on a bare metal environment. I don't wanna run it under vm, which you need to do if you're sitting with Nutanix, um, that changes your, um, io uh, that you have in your, your transaction speed. So, um, that what we've seen in the very large organizations, they'll put Nutanix in for selected applications on the smaller organizations.

Maybe it's ubiquitous across the board. I just wanted to ask you something because, um, I wanted to ask Kimberly one thing. What we're hearing from Nutanix is that the Powerflex, um, uh, you know, architecture is kind of a one-off.

They see that as a one-off, whereas the, the Pure Storage one, um, is one that they see maybe, you know, uh, being more of a model that they can replicate and even turn to a kind of a, a, a self certification mode for multiple storage companies. What, what, what do you think about that? That's correct, because what they used in this situation is they used their flow, which is their, um, software-defined networking.

And so there's this, this software defined networking capability that it's tying into, whereas the Powerflex, they're not using sd, the, the SDN capability that they have. So there is, should be an easier mode forward in terms of the implementation. The question I'll have is, you know, how they're gonna position the two of these one clearly, you know, Nutanix is ramped up their business with Dell, um, because of the Broadcom situation.

So the, the VxRail is down the, the Nutanix boxes coming up in terms of revenue. And as they go out there in that market, they're gonna promote their Powerflex capabilities for the, the high speed environment. So I, I think there's two different plays, but you're right, it there is a, a better imp implementa or an, I wouldn't say it's better right now because I haven't been into the core details on it.

Um, but I would say that it's more streamlined. Ra a question for you about this. Um, one of the things about Pure Storage also is with our hyperconverged infrastructure, they use Kubernetes for managing that.

I don't believe Nutanix does for storage, but they do. I think they use containers for some of that. Is that an, is that any kind of a plus kuber?

I mean, they use Kubernetes elsewhere within Nutanix. Do you think that's any kind of a plus on the storage side that, that, um, pure Storage brings? Um, I'm not sure I understand your question completely.

I, I, you're, you're, you're asking the question. So Pure Storage brings for, for Kubernetes, they promote Port Works, but they also have a CSI connector with Flash Array. So when they go to market, if I've got a pure Kubernetes environment, port Works is gonna be a better play for them because of the capabilities that has, especially, um, and, and some of the things that they've done in the VM VM environment, um, that, that's really, really, uh, top, top line.

Um, so I, I think we're talking maybe have to look at two different things. Yeah, two different things. You saved me a question to them, so thanks.

You Out there, Steven, you are my, uh, favorite storage geek and all this stuff is running by and through NVME, and yet I feel like we've been talking about NVME for a while, but I don't see a lot of it in being deployed yet. So where are we on this curve? 'cause it's all these new systems seem to be dependent upon NVME.

Well, maybe you're just not seeing it. Um, it certainly is being deployed a lot of places. I just think it's not, it's, it's not sexy.

Uh, you know, it's not, so it's not the headline. Um, there certainly is a lot of M-M-V-M-E, we're seeing a lot of alternatives to, uh, fiber channel, um, being rolled out. I was just talking about optical SaaS the other day with a company.

Um, you know, it's funny, uh, looking at this though, um, Nutanix has really transformed, haven't they, from where they were to where they are today. I, I was looking the other day at te, a video from Tech Field, a eight back in September of 2011 when Nutanix debuted at Tech Field Day. Uh, they had a big banner at the front of the room that said, virtualize without SAN and a Big No Sand.

Remember Kimberly, the, the, the circle, the slash through the sand. Um, well now, uh, they do San and um, they just announced as well, this Project Beacon, the net Cloud native version of the storage platform that runs all in Kubernetes, um, um, no virtualized. So, um, I, I guess all those words have changed, but that's how companies evolve.

And I, what I look at these solutions, the, the collaboration with Pure, for example, uh, with Dell, basically everything Nutanix has done over the years has been adapting with customer demand. And if they feel that there's a big demand for, uh, NVME based storage and, um, you know, native integration with Pure Storage, then that's the direction they're willing to head for. And I, and I like that because a company that was once religious in their beliefs about how infrastructure should be, is now very pragmatic in, uh, meeting the customers where they are.

You know, the irony of that that you brought up, Steve, is that when HCI hyperconverged first came out, the long pole in the tent on there is how the storage capability performed. It didn't make a difference. The server was fine, you know, flat out or whatever.

And so, if you understand kind of where this came from, it was something called Verto that was bought by VMware. VMware rolled that out as vsan vsan became hyperconverged system called VxRail. Nutanix came out.

Those guys were from, guess what, where they came from, they came out and did that. So when we were looking at all these hcis, what we were looking at is how the, those hcis were implementing the storage environment, um, because that was going to dictate the performance of those systems at that time. What a time goes where.

So I, what, yeah. So when I read that piece about them, the Project Beacon coming out and, and where they're at with that, I was like, wow, that's like calling all the way around. Mm-hmm.

Circle back to where we started from. Well, and, and, and Nutanix has moved quite strongly into compute for the last maybe four years. Uh, you know, networking may be, yeah, flow has pretty limited functionality.

So networking may be, you know, strictly third tier for them. That might be a great strategic decision. But if you think about the purchase of D two IQ last year, and now the, it's relaunched as, uh, NKP Nutanix, uh, Kubernetes platform, which is actually a, a sort of a platform of platforms, um, as well as, uh, their development of a HP on top of KVM.

They, they, they started out with that being VMware. They decided to go with TDM and Open Source. Um, they, they, you know, I, I won't go into it.

There's a, a pretty extensive product line right now around compute as well. So I think at the very worst, um, they're, they, they would have to reach certain limitations if they are limiting their growing compute customers to HCI and to, you know, uh, uh, that, that storage floor. So, um, whether it's necessity or not, I do think, uh, um, achieve Ram Swampy, their CEO on brought some calm as well as some vision into Nutanix when he joined.

And, uh, they're realizing that strategy right now. And, uh, then, you know, the Broadcom gift came back a year and a half ago. They're, they're, they're riding away this partially of their own making, And they also starting to look and smell a lot more like VMware.

So that's subtracting, oh, a lot of people who are VMware customers In a good way. It's okay. I think it's in a d much different way.

The, and to that point on Guy, what the other piece that they really released, um, was their, uh, integration with NVIDIA's, uh, microservices, NIMS and, um, nemo. Um, so they do have a, a nice platform, um, actually, and we saw them at, uh, call out to, uh, tech Field days, and I, I put a blog up there about what they were doing, a really nice piece of, uh, easy button kind of operations. I mean, what they've bundled together here is something that you can roll in, in my mind, is for that, those guys that do not even wanna have the integrated systems that are maybe from, you know, some of the, the, the big three letter companies or, or like Dell or HP and that kinda stuff, they want it even easier than that.

And so they've done things like on the hugging face, they've gone through the different libraries that are there. They've cleaned, they've validated those libraries, they've selected the best ones for you. So you can just click on it, select a library, it populates how you're going to, you know, what GPUs, what memory you need, et cetera.

And then you're just off and going. Um, I'm sure it's a little bit more difficult than that, but it was, it was pretty slick stuff that they did show us. So, yeah, it's An interesting alternative for competitor to, uh, red Hats acquisition and Neural magic, which is about also about getting AI apps into, into production.

So a different approach, but it's interesting to see that come to fruition that people are working on how do we get this stuff in production? Yeah. And that would have to get, I mean, with Red Hat, you're still having to install it.

Now, IBM is putting together Fusion, which is their hyperconverged system kind of thing. That's, but it's coming from IBM. And, um, I also, you know, going back to it's the, it all Matters is with the storage.

It's sold by the storage team. Um, but that is their ai, uh, platform box that they're rolling out. So yeah.

Steven, Yeah, I was just gonna mention that, um, as Kimberly said, we did, uh, just hear from Nutanix on their converged AI solution. Um, another company I think that we should call out too is HPE, which also has a nice converged, uh, AI solution as well. Uh, it seems like that's a direction that a lot of these companies are headed.

Um, and, and I think that, again, that's smart because customers are hungry for it. Yeah. Not, not, not to leave out Google Cloud, which has their, their inference in a box.

No, SCOR storage is just noisy. So we do everything we can to mount to, to make it not noisy. I, well, it sounds sexy over here.

Who knew? Let's take a break on Textron Gang. Let's come back and talk about IDP Idiosyncrasies.

Can't wait. You're watching Textron Gang. Join Cruise Con Virtual on May 22nd, 2025 for breakthrough strategies to address advanced threat intelligence, proactive incident response, exclusive bonus material and regulatory adaptation here from our keynote speaker, Admiral Michael S.

Rogers, former director of the National Security Agency, and an outstanding lineup of industry experts as they navigate emerging threats, the core principles of crisis management and the evolution of CISO Leadership Register now for free. Alright, and we're back as promised, talking about IDPs, which may stand for internal developer platform or portal depending on your viewpoint sometimes. But, um, Lummi is previewing a new IDP that they're talking about that they're gonna give away to their existing customer base.

And their argument is, is that, well, the ones that we have out there already are just too damn hard to manage and too difficult to set up, and otherwise you just can't live with it. And this seems to be a common theme. We hear about a lot of open source technologies, but Mitch, what's your take on what's going on here, IDPs or core to platform engineering about, that's about the only thing we all agree on.

Well, it is one, a common place where people start with platform engineering. Not always, but it's about the developer experience, developer productivity. Often the developers are considered the customers of platform engineering, at least, uh, one of the primary ones I think, I think you hit the real key phrase, which is who are customers of Plummy?

Um, it, it isn't really an independent offering, but it's, it's, it's entering a, a market of, you know, a wide range of technologies, uh, options that people have. You know, of course everybody tends to talk about Backstage is one of the, or cross playing. It's a couple of the primary ones, but, you know, Mannatech has one ops level has one, it's not quite like belly buttons.

Not everybody has an IDP, but there are a lot of folks that do. So there's a lot of choice out there. And, you know, I think the, the main point of it is what's the ease of implementation and is it something that developers will use?

'cause they won't use it. They're not, it isn't worth the effort. And given that it's brought to market by plume, an infrastructure is code kind of provider, um, very much could be tailored to the platform engineers.

I'd wanna see how well the developers, the uptake with the developers are. So I, I don't think it, you know, so when you're a platform engineer and you're picking an IDP for my developers to work on, am I more concerned about I gotta pick something that the developers are going, going to like so that they use it? Or am I more concerned with, I need to pick an IDP that fulfills kind of my mission statement, which is to allow these guys to go faster in a more secure way and, and, and make it happen.

So look, you know, platform engineering plays to an internal audience, primarily developers and DevOps and SREs. And, and so, you know, how customer centric are they in picking IDPs? If you listen to pmi, they should be very developer centric and pick something developers are gonna like.

But I think, well, some, You know, some something you know well is if there's a crowd who will work around your solution that they don't like, it's developers. So I think adoption is number one on my list. 'cause adoption will lead to hopefully productivity and, and more, more centralization, common tools, things like that.

Because they aren't gonna use it. It's certainly, you're not gonna help yourself any, I think that's the subtle point that gets overlooked in this whole platform engineering conversation is you gotta treat the developers like they're your actual customers. And a lot of the, and, and the folks that run platforms don't often have that mindset.

No, they don't. Which, Well, that's the risk of a platform company coming up with an IDP too is, uh, you know, anytime you have a company really getting out of their, um, traditional market, you have to ask, do they have the, the chops and the understanding in order to deliver a product outside that market? And it's not, this is not a dig on plummy by any, any, by any means, ev every time we see that in, in almost any industry, almost any type of product, uh, you know, there's always that question and sometimes it succeeds because they actually do have insight into that market and sometimes it doesn't because they build something that's just not fit for purpose.

E Exactly. You know, speaking of platform engineering, I just feel compelled to say, Hey, we're gonna be a platform con June 25th in New York City. That whole week is the virtual platform come event.

There's live events in Paris, London, and New York. I don't know, 35 to 40,000 people have registered for this. So it, it should be, if you're in the platform engineering, that's a great place to find out.

com, our own site dedicated to it and our platform engineering, uh, podcast and video series, the platform engineering show. Um, okay guys, do we got anything else? Mike, you have, you are at there, you're, you're at Nutanix all day today as well.

Yeah, I am here all day and then into the evening and then tomorrow morning we are, uh, one more last chat and then I'm heading back on the fabulous Amtrak train subsidized formally by the United States Formally. Kimberly, I know you're in California now. Any plans to go back home to Colorado anytime soon?

Uh, should hoping, heading back on Monday, we'll see. Fantastic. Good luck and hope everything's well.

Look forward to seeing you again here soon, Robert. Hey man, keep doing what you're doing. Look forward to seeing you on another text gang.

I look forward to seeing you on another Textron gang. But until then, happy Friday everyone, as usual, we have a full Textron TV lineup immediately following, um, I don't know if you caught our Tech Field Day live presentations this week, but if you didn't, you could probably catch 'em on their YouTube channel or on Tech Drunk tv. Did I mention the OTT app?

We now have an OTT app for Tech Drunk tv. So if you're on Apple TV or Roku or, or Amazon Fire or Google or, or Apple, go download tech drunk TV 'cause you just can't get enough until then, until this Monday. Then on behalf of Text and Gang, this is Alan Schmo.

Have a great weekend. We're out.