Techstrong Gang – May 13, 2024

Hey, everyone. We're here at RSA conference. It's been a great week, but we've got a great day ahead of you here.

You're watching Textron Gang. Hi everyone. Welcome to this special episode of Textron Gag.

We actually recorded this on Thursday of last week at our, uh, broadcast Alley Studios here, where we've been all week here for RSA conference. This is probably, I guess, the largest RSA conference or one of the largest ever. It's certainly been on a memorable one.

Some people are saying it's RSAI, but it nevertheless, RSA I've got a great panel here for, we're going to, we're gonna obviously talk about RSA, but we've got other things to talk about. Let me introduce you to our panel. First of all, joining us.

Far left. He's not in Denver. Hi.

Actually, I don't know if he's high or not, but he's here in San Francisco. It's our CTO Principal, uh, research analyst for Tech Drug Research. Mitch Ashley.

Hey. Hey. Welcome.

Hey. Good to be here next to us. He's not on his boat either.

He's here in person. I I didn't recognize him without the boat on him. Yeah.

You didn't not recognize him without the boat. Our resident cyber expert, Chris Blask, Chris Blask Chris, well welcome joining us for the first time. He's a, he's a virgin for tech, strong gang, like a virgin for the very first time.

Um, my friend Mark Miller. Hey, mark. Welcome.

Hey, good. Thank you. And of course, I'm Alan Shimel.

So, look, it's obvious we're here at RSA. I guess we should start by talking about an RSA wrap up guys. Impressions.

I mean, this is my 22nd, 22nd or 23rd. RSAI think one of the things that is noticeable this year is the comeback after Covid. Mm-Hmm.

And I know it's been a couple years, but it's reached its momentum again. We're at 30 to 40,000 people. Oh, no.

We're old. Before I heard 40 to six or something. I heard.

Yeah. That's the last time. Right.

So it, and literally everybody is here. I can't walk a half a block without running into somebody. Oh.

The first day it's like I couldn't get to the Starbucks without six high lows and hugs. Yeah. And hugs are back.

Hugs are back. That's nearly the sign that told me. That's a great point.

Last year we had 40,000 people, if you remember, but people were a little hesitant Right. To hug. Right.

You, you know, you give 'em one of those this year, hugs are done. The he back. Yeah.

The heis wing. We got a hug. But, uh, I did, I did see some people with mask and, and God bless them.

You know, you don't know if people are sensitive. Right. Or, or by maybe friends or maybe sick themselves and Try not to transmit like our friends, The RSA of the police dog, we see more.

Yes. Police dog, security general. We Have airport Security, airport style security.

Well, part of that may be look the RSA and, and give Brita and, and Linda and, and the team, a big shout out. They brought in some amazing speaker. Oh, we had Anthony Blinken, who's sec, obviously Secretary of State.

Uh, may August. The, the DHS secretary was here. Uh, Jason.

Oh, Sudeikis. Jason Sudeikis was here. Uh, Alicia, Jesus, from closing out today.

And those are the non-security people. Yeah. Yeah.

Now Let's get to Security. But you, you're right. It for me and all of us, Chris Mitchell, mark, we, we spend our world at conferences to a large degree.

For me, this is still the home conference, right? Yeah. This is where my people are.

This is where I come to see people I haven't seen in a year. I would come here, even if I wasn't doing this or speaking or doing anything. It, this is where it's still where the security industry comes to me.

Well, and think about the, sorry, Chris. Think about the, uh, security bloggers network now. Security.

We'll, we'll talk About that. We were All at just a phenomenal event last Night. Night.

One of the best you've ever had at the Ang Guru and new people, uh, you know, new age groups. You know, we're expanding the, the That was the point I was gonna get to. Oh, good.

'cause you're right. You know, the part of it is the, the pandemic gave us this a little pause, and it's been long enough now it's five years. And one of the things I've noticed in this, this year is generational augmentation.

Right. A lot of young folks, five years is a long time. Right.

There's a lot of 27 year olds who were 22 before this, or 27 32. And at the, at the, the creators get together last night. You know, our first conversation was with some, some young writers who are coming into this.

I think that's a, it's a very healthy sign. Know we're my almost Randy. This whole industry is very immature, very young for all the time we spent in it.

It's not a long time. I think we're starting to see the beginning of the next phase. It's interesting.

We saw that at the Tonga room last night. Yes. 50 50 parity male to female, which was That one back then.

Amazing. Oh, no. Yeah.

Right. Now We need some more diversity people of color that, that I think we need to continue to work on. The thing though, is we look around here, it's, uh, are we seeing more women?

Are we seeing more younger people? I said, yeah, that's cool. That's very cool.

But as in the industry, we need to start thinking, and it's almost a buzzword in the sense we have to encourage that. We have to encourage the diversity. Absolutely.

Let me, you know, I I, I kicked it off by saying some people were calling this year's event RS ai, AI is everywhere. Don't get me started on that. Okay.

The Engines are already r ped up, I Think. But look, quite frankly, physician healed thyself. You put on an event Monday that was Sack sitting.

All he in the hiring world. I brought the real practitioner. I bought the CSOs from the major Companie.

Oh, you Did? The real AI people. These people are not the real ai No.

When you look, is that what you're trying to say? I sell b******t on it. Yeah.

All right. You're calling b******t on it. Go.

Well, How many people are, you know, there were talks, I mean, I think you stood up at one of the talks and, you know, sort of get a, a version of calling b******t of Yeah. That's not an AI framework you're talking about. That's a framework we've Used that you ai, ai slap Ai.

So there's a lot of slapping AI On No, there, there is a lot of slapping ai, But there's also standing up in front of 500 people talking like, this framework is new, and all you've done is cut and paste the AI on the top of the different block boxes in it. Well, to your point, you of course, I've been focusing on supply chain the last five years. Right.

And I, again, we're talking about the, the length of our time at, at this particular conference in this, this industry. And one of the things I've found in any sort of hype cycle, there's three years, there's the one year with, so SBO M two years ago, you say SBO what? SBO what now?

Oh, yeah. Then there's the year everybody is on the, you know, we're sort of there with ai as you saying this year. And then there's this year, you know, which sort of passed.

And the thing I take away from this is walking down the street, the first person I turn around and meet in the, in the badge line software build materials. Oh yeah. I went to the eec, uh, uh, c uh, van yesterday.

And my question was, have you built this into your offerings yet? And the short answer is no. But they're about to Yeah.

Sit down with these same folks next year at the same conference and they'll say yes. And you know, that, that conversation with a couple other folks showed that. So I think on the AI topic, we're in this year where everybody's talking about it.

And you're right, it's probably a lot of junk, but It's high school six. Yes. But it'll, yeah, that's probably by next year starting get married.

Right. Yo, yo, Yo. You know, I, so, but look, it, there's always a kernel of truth in there.

And, and I don't want to throw out the AI babies with the bathwater. Right. There is some fundamentally, you know, earth shattering industry changing innovations that are, we're on the cusp of with ai as well as unfortunately probably some really bad things that bad people are gonna do using ai.

Mm-Hmm. But the adversary isn't what's being talked about here a lot, which surprises me to come like this. Exactly.

Well, there's always so much you can do about them, right? At the end of the day, unless you're going to be in offense, and that's a nation state activity. We're in defense, and this is where, you know, this whole event and this whole internet thing proves this open source freedom of speech, democracy, capitalism sort of model, right?

Where worlds build better things. The conditions are where they are. You know, they're can be bad disinformation actors, AI actors.

That may be something we deal with on our side. We'll just build systems that, you know, work. Anyways.

You know, a lot of the, some of the conversations evolved too around AI talking about domain specific or training, you know, for, uh, specific kind of problems. Like we talked about code security the other day at our conference. The other shift that I'm seeing is it isn't just co-pilots.

Like how many damn co-pilots do we need? Right? I mean, I'm gonna have to add extra seats to the bus just to have some place for all the co-pilots to sit.

People are starting to work on putting AI into workflows or into how teams work, or how it can affect security processes. Not just tell me what's happening in a better English queryable way, natural length. The thing that I've seen here, which is annoying to a point, is a lot of sessions saying, you should be doing this, but are you doing it yet?

No. But that's what you should be doing. Agreed.

We're at the should stage. Yep. Yeah.

We should let, let's move on from AI for a minute. 'cause we're gonna wrap this block up. Um, software, supply chain security.

You mentioned it in the context of best bumps. I'll, I'll put forth the proposition that there's more to software supply chain security than s pumps. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. And it, and it's one of the big themes here this year, AB too with, with Software supply chain. But you know, I, I did a panel yesterday, uh, on DevSecOps next coming outta your research report.

And one of the points I made is that DevSecOps does not equal AppSec. There's more to AppSec right? Than DevSecOps.

There's more to DevSecOps than purely AppSec. But AppSec is still ab absolutely ascending. But here's another thing.

Hardware's back It is, talk about That. Yeah. Mark and I spoke about it at breakfast today, right?

Uh, uh, the Nvidia revolution, if you want to call it for GPUs and so forth. Now we're starting to talk about hardware again, we're talking about what does that mean in context of serverless? And, you know, VMware is part of Broadcom.

Now, what's a hardware company know from VMware? Well, we're gonna see, I think hardware security, which was dead. Remember Intel was building it into The, it's all abstracted away.

We don't need to Worry about, it's, I think that's back. I am, not only am I excited about a new generation of security people, and I find it ironic that we got four old white guys here talking about it. Sorry about that.

I couldn't get anyone else in here. Um, But not only do we have a new generation of, of practitioners coming in, we, We Are looking, we're lighting up the full spectrum of security. Yes, there's ai, yes, there's DevSecOps and AppSec and software supply chain, but endpoint Security, cloud security infrastructure, binary security, binary position analysis.

We'd talking This the di gly era, right? You know, for all your Douglas Adams fans out there, everything's connected. And we're serving here.

You start this with bound not being all about, yeah. Everything there is to know about supply chain. And I see this as sort of the third matching pattern.

The first one was adoption of the internet, all at all. Meyer, you know, early, early 1990s. The second one was threat intelligence, where it asked the same sort of questions.

How about we have open networks where we openly communicate, no, no, kid, you don't understand the internet. How about we have threat intelligence, so we share our threats and risks and vulnerability. Oh, no, no, no, kid, you don't understand.

We do that. Now, if you're not doing it, you're not in business. So right now it's about inventories, you know, supply chain, you know, SBO M is just an attestation about contents.

Um, oh, you're not gonna share this. Yes, you are. In fact, you're gonna share everything in the right ways.

And I think that's the, the definition of this next era. And we'll use ai, we'll use a lot of the things we're talking about to follow the path that the internet put us on. Open systems not so open.

Your brain falls out, you know, with standards and limits and, and sharing appropriately. But we're gonna put all these things together and just keep going in the same direction we've been going. It's not about closed systems, it's not about the old way of doing things.

You know, SBAM has come up here a lot in the last five minutes. I saw Alan Friedman holding court in the middle of the hallway surrounded. Alan's time has come, right?

Oh yeah. Absolutely. He's spent a lot of time getting, he has, well, he's done missionary work, right?

Yep. Anyway, see, one of the things I wanna mention before we leave, this is a lot of, a lot of discussion about graphs work or work group collaboration, people, graphs, tying people in all this data, how you connect it together. It isn't, it isn't just having a common set of objects and definitions of it.

It's being able to say, here's an event that happened. Here's the other things that happened with it. Here's what other people were doing.

End users, security engineers, operations people. It's all this activity that's happening across people, technology services, software security, et cetera, and connecting to together. You heard it from Microsoft at our DevSecOps event, um, heard it last week from Atlassian talking about how people work.

So I think people are recognizing it's not just putting data co-locating data, having a, a common or similar kind of object model or definition. But you gotta add meaning to it more than just correlating information. And that's an encouraging sign because it's one thing to share it, but it's another thing to know what's really happening once you've shared it.

Right? Right. Like you said, a important word there.

You know, people, right? You know, everybody out there, if you get a chance, you know, to come to the, the, the family dinner, the text strongholds, you know, it's about people and communities. And as we're discussing at that, that dinner and on this show, generationally the generational shift, our kids, you know, our grandkids in some cases are growing up in a different world.

And the, the issues of feelings and so forth have been debated a lot sociologically. But we get down to business dynamics, you know, and it's, we're building communities of people. You know, what happens when we're not all engineers turning wrenches?

Do we all fade into the background? No. We're building systems for humans.

And I think this next generation coming up is better suited than we are. The I Generation is coming up right now. Right.

Being born and being born at ai. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Hey, I'm going to pull the plug on this block. We've got a lot more to talk about on Textron Gang, but I'm gonna end it with this. If you didn't make this year's RSA next year, it's April 28th to May 1st.

I'm reading it off of bat behind me. Try to get out here for yourselves and see it. Hopefully, God willing, we'll all be here and we'll be here at Textron.

We're gonna take a break on Textron gang. We'll be right back. Hey, everyone.

We're back here on Textron tv. Uh, we're, we are at RSA conference doing a special edition of Textron Gang. So this was recorded last week.

One of the issues I wanted to talk about is there's been a lot lately around open source. Uh, and, you know, it seems like the, the bloom is off the Rose A. Little bit around open source companies are changing licenses to take their products out of open source.

We're seeing a ton of open source security vulnerabilities. This, uh, what was it, YZ or XZ thing out of Microsoft that they discovered where kind of deep sleeper cells are inserting malware in a open source. Um, open source has had a bit of a trust problem building in the last couple years, actually.

Just the overall security in general of, of, as a from of supply chain, right? You know, your favorite supply chains and SBOs as it relates to cloud. I want to introduce you.

Yes. We wanted a new person. This isn't Mark Miller, if you can't figure that out, it's our friend Sharon Fitz Fitzpatrick.

Sharon is with sig. She is sort of a, uh, well, Sharon's a security extraordinarily, extraordinarily person. I enjoy talking to her.

I think you'll enjoy talking to her if she's not talking about security. She's talking about Nittany Lyons football. Yes.

So, yeah, there you go. From a gator. We are, I'm not a Gator head state.

Oh, oh, hey, no, let's not do the football. I'm doing him early because he's coming to a game With me at some point, so I can't believe he didn't say Steelers, but okay. No, no.

This is college football, college. I know. Different anyway, though.

Still Pennsylvania, enough football. Let's get back to open source. Oh, I'll stick with football.

You, Whoops. You had to bring it up. I had to, but Mitchell, why don't you kick us off with open source.

You know, it, it, it's, it's one of those, everybody kind of had the, um, kinda, the bloom is off the roads. Everybody had the opt optimistic. This is good thing.

It's good for everybody. Um, it, it underpins, you know, large percentages of the code that we deploy, the software that we deploy. And I think enough things have happened now, you know, we can all point to SolarWinds or whatever individual event, but enough things have started to happen about us, and we're paying attention to supply chain security.

Like what is the security of the open source that we're using in our products as well as in our, our software, in our IT organizations in our infrastructure. I don't think it's get rid of it. Throw the baby out with the bath water.

Use that analogy again. But it is, how do we secure it? How do we have some provenance about where it came from that we know whether it's somebody contributing to the code or just the code itself.

Sharon, you know, sig, look, you guys do container security, cloud security. Yeah. Just last week there was this thing in Docker hub, I don't know if you saw where some of the images within Docker hub itself Oh, where, where, where were mal contained malware and phishing and, and stuff like that.

What did, you know, and I realize you're not necessarily on the science side there, but talk a little bit about cystic. What are you guys seeing doing? Well, I mean, we've been really proud of the open source products that we've done.

We just had Falco graduate from CNCF. Right? Right.

Which is a huge, It's a huge deal. Deal. And you know, Lars, our founder also founded, you know, wire sharks.

So he's very much committed to open source. And our open source very much considers security at the, the hub of it. So we've not had the experience that many of folks in the industry have had, but we do really look at the threat reports.

We have a whole threat research team, and the threat intelligence is what we use to learn and make our product better. And so, you know, we found Ruby Carb and Scarlet Teal and all the stuff that's out there. So Seems like you're coming from a place of security and open source or Right.

Either way, you look at it where not every project is like that. That's true. Yeah.

And I think we also are very cognizant of time. Mm-Hmm. So we kind of say, you know, five seconds to hit us, five seconds to detect in five seconds to respond.

And that 5, 5, 5 kind of benchmark methodology is really important when you consider time and malware and everything else. Threats hit in an instant and you have to respond. You know, you mentioned SolarWinds.

Well now think of the fact that you've got the SEC compliance laws coming out and everything that came out in December report and having to do it in 96 hours. And how do you do that? Because you're now legally responsible for providing it.

Mm-Hmm. You know, I, I think open source is a lot like free speech, right? And I think we're only a couple decades into this whole internet and open source thing anyways, which on, you know, the scale of most systems is really, really young.

And I think as expected, we go through this sort of adolescent wearing a black beret and smoking gawa cigarettes and like, you know, you know, going to interpretive dance. Totally. He was old.

We are California. Yes. But at some point you had to grow up a little bit.

Right? And now does that mean you stop doing that entirely? You know, so early open source, early free speech know, free speech means that everybody gets to say everything everywhere the same as everybody else.

So we can all shout fire in crowded theaters. Oh wait, there was, there's an exception to this. That doesn't mean you don't have free speech.

So, and it's, it's just, you know, saying and imply we don't have any of this without open source. Now, does that mean that there is no limit, no controls and no visibility? No, that's kind of stupid too, right?

Or just getting to this maturity level where we're starting to be able to put things together as necessary for the next level. But the, if the alternative is entirely closed systems like that, that's not even on the table. But I think you have to be open because you have to have the ability to remix, reuse, reprotect and bring in something where maybe you are vulnerable and you have a partner or another open source product that together you're better than one.

And I think that's been the beauty of open source, because it's really how you can rethink and redefine what security is or what open source is. Yeah. I actually wrote a book about this, um, for the EOF Foundation, but it was more tied to education called Open Textbook.

So it was really about remixing, reusing, and redistributing content in a different way so you can learn more in a different time. Interesting. So let, let me make the case that this is all, all of the open source security issues actually have been a good thing.

I'm not saying I wish they happen, but think About need happen. They drive Evolution. We're, well, we're, but we're now talking about, you know, DevSecOps is the entire life cycle of creating software as well as the technology that we do it on, right?

That's tool chains underlying 'cause it's how winds happened, right? So we're paying attention to, to software supply chain, I think largely because of the issues found security issues found in open source. If that wouldn't happen, we'd be still kinda living along happy, you know, drunk and happy.

Drunk and happy, whatever. That stupid, bad, stupid and happy. Right?

You know, was it the animal house? Well, that, that see my whole focus on curves, right? Because it's not that no one ever thought of software inventory before, but now it's time.

And we keep going through these, uh, periods and again, 'cause we were talking about earlier, we're old enough, we've seen this multiple times, right? It's easy to say, well, I thought of that 30 years ago. It's like, yeah, but it wasn't that time.

Yeah. Right. Time.

Sometimes it's time. And, and you're right. You know, moving, as you guys know, I, I build sail silly boats and sail 'em into storms to see what happens.

And that's what we're sort of doing, you know, it's like we can actually do this, build businesses and countries, sail it forward, it'll crash a little bit and we'll rebuild it. And that's a very open system. It's threat actors too.

I think that threat actors have really redefined kind of how we secure open source. Mm-Hmm. And they always seem to find the vulnerabilities, which is why we're hearing about constant invasions and malware and ransomware and everything else.

Every time you turn around, I'm getting a letter from a, you know, a healthcare provider or a credit card company that they've been hacked. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, it's really, the threat actors have gotten very sophisticated. I, I think open source has been a victim of its own success. Good point.

Right? Back in the nineties, early two thousands, a Mac was invulnerable. Right?

Those Windows machines terrible security. No, Mac security is, you know, impenetrable. Well, it's because it was only 5% of the market and no one gave a crap.

Right? When Max got to 20%, 25%, or whatever it is of the market, all of a sudden they became, they had a target on their back and people said, Hey, we should start attacking Max. And, and God darn it, they did it.

All of a sudden we started seeing Mac attacks. Now, was it as bad as a window machines running xp? No, probably not.

But as we sit here today, are max particularly more secure than today's windows? Whether you are fanboy or not, you can go back and forth, but there's not a big difference because Maxs are a target. When open source wasn't in 98% of the Fortune 500, when open source didn't make up 80% or more of the components within every application, no one gave a hoot.

But now they do. So it, it's a, it's a victim of its own success and it's to be expected kinda why do they keep robbing banks? So that's where the money is.

Exactly That. Exactly that. Right.

Exactly. It, I mean, hackers are doing the same thing. I found it really interesting that there's a group of white hat hackers that are hired by companies who have open source or have their own code to break it.

And so Red team blue team stuff, it's been going, going on. Yeah. Well, and we're part of, we're, you know, we, the defenders and the, the security people are the other part of that ecosystem as we close off certain windows that are nutrient rich.

That'd mean if you're a bad guy, that'll take all your time to exploiting. Now we close it off and they turn around and they find something else we missed and we shouldn't be shocked. Lower hanging Fruit.

Right? You wanna know where you're gonna fail before you go to market. Right?

Exactly. Absolutely. Wow.

Hey, this is a great, great talk, Sharon. Thank you for coming by. Why don't serendipitous right that ho as they say, go Nittany Lions.

I will see you soon. Uh, sig check them out. Sharon does a lot of stuff that you should check her out as well.

Sharyn Fitzpatrick. We're gonna take a break on Textron gang, we'll be back. Everyone, uh, welcome back to the Trex Textron gang.

We're here for our third segment at RSAC. We're recording this the prior week. So coming, uh, to you on Monday.

We, we wanted to touch back into the AI subject, but not about the technology, about the people side of that. I mean, you think about the 46,000 people that are here all wanting to understand security, ai, how that's all gonna be part of our world. But, you know, there's a lot of fear in the market about what does it mean for people, you know, pe there's a lot of espousing of, you know, this is gonna replace all these jobs, whatever it might be.

I think we've all seen instances that of our time, whether it's robotics or automation or, you know, it increases productivity, maybe it changes jobs, it might eliminate some, but give great new opportunities. Um, or is it going to take over for all of us and we don't have to do the work we're doing? It's interesting.

Some people use the buggy whip analogy, it's like the men. But it's, it's not that this time, because everybody is now aware of where this thing is going. The real fear is where do I as a person fit into this transition?

Mm-Hmm. There's a lot of fear mugger in the mass media about, oh, people are gonna lose their jobs. They're not gonna be anything to do.

Uh, I would argue that that's not what's happening. Chris. I agree.

You know, in 1987 when Don and I got married, you know, we had to put your occupation on there. So I pull this up sometimes, and I'm a forklift driver, and Donna is a word processor, which is an app now, but there were whole floors of Uber paid their bills and so forth by being a word process. So I think the buggy whip analogy is true enough.

But, you know, it's, I think, you know, I feel like a bit of a hippie saying this, but I think we move more and more to human related jobs, you know, that, you know, we can make a robot or make code that'll pound this wrench into that nail or write this line, but we're doing it for people, right? And that's really what it's all about. And so I think creativity in the arts, I think we see this in the generation coming up today.

And, and we've touched on this, some of our, in our tech business talk here, companies are made of people, you know, why are we here to pay our bills and, and, but also have a good day, right? So I think, I think, you know, my, my pollion optimist is showing, but I think it's true. I think at 10, 20 years we look back, we'll find out that we'd worked as sort of a brutalist, you know, corporate business environment all our lives and is bending more towards what people actually want to do, which is not necessarily pound code all day.

I don't disagree. I, you know, so do you tell your children to be a plumber, an electrician? If they want to, you know, you know, thinking back to the Mercury Day, have mercury rocket days, computer was a person and a two year word processor.

So some of those things become, those jobs become functions of what we do, not just job titles. So maybe security engineer, I don't know, that'll become a piece of software. But what we do, our jobs change, right?

Because we're now, we have access to things we didn't have. I mean, we have talked about the AI generation growing up, AI natives. I think the same thing is true.

In 10 years we're gonna be talking about security, probably still, you know, buffer overflow issues and cross site descripting. But we'll be talking about a whole nu set. You mean the O us top 10 isn't gonna change.

I think that'll be around for a while, at least if history's in the indication. Um, but there'll be, well, the way we work, it's gonna change. It's gonna be different.

The the issue you don't agree, you No, No. I do agree. I think, but I don't think this is unique to ai.

I think this is, this is the story of every generation. You, you're looking at someone who went to college as a political science history major, went to law school with a jd, and then got into the internet designing websites and hosting them, and then got into infrastructure and then security. And here I am talking about cybersecurity on internet TV at an event in San Francisco.

Make that prediction, if You would've gone back to, to my 20-year-old me and said, is that what you're gonna do at this age? I would've said, hell no. What are you talking?

I don't even know what that internet thing is. And I never had a computer. I have an Atari.

But, so say, you know, fast forward that who knows what the jobs of tomorrow are. I think that's a good point. Because the fear is I don't see myself in the future.

Mm. What I'm doing today. Yeah.

In the future even, right? That people are looking, where's my next pathway? And I'm hearing all this stuff about AI and AI replacing me.

I don't think that's in the ball game. The thing is, find your path and it'll be there. Yeah.

It's not the next offshoring outsourcing model, right? Yes. It's gonna do things that we might do, do ourselves today.

Uh, you know, it's, it isn't sentient yet. It isn't, it doesn't understand the space any better. Matter of fact, doesn't even know what it's producing for.

Gen AI doesn't know what the meaning of that. Even if it is, maybe it will someday. But, you know, I think we're still creators.

We're still gonna create, well, what the next thing is, the follows after ai. Let me go a little ju Belushi On you. Okay.

Food fight. No, not, no, not that one. No, Not That one.

No. But people in Star Trek don't worry about this stuff, right? That's right.

They do whatever makes them happy and what they want to pursue. They don't have to worry about money and, and all of these things. But no, not us.

We gotta worry about jobs as Long as they don't have a red shirt on, and They're right. Well, they have a small, very low lifespan with the red shirt. But the, the fact of the matter is all of these innovations and AI happens to be today's whipping boy.

All of these innovations generally wind up allowing us to pursue our dreams, to pursue our, not, not just livelihoods. No one, I mean, it's a death sentence to go to a job you hate every day, or profession you hate every day. And when you could leverage technology, whether it be AI or the internet or, or whatever it's next to allow you to do something that gives you joy, you know, no.

Or kidding aside about the Star Trek that gives you joy and fulfillment and makes you feel like you're contributing and doing something meaningful. It's a good thing. And I think that's how we have to look at ai.

How does this make us joyful, meaningful, and con contributing? And I think AI gives us a lot of possibilities there. So, you know, call me half glass, half full guy, but that's where I am on this.

The next generation is gonna be raised with this. This isn't even gonna be an Issue. Absolutely.

Not even a debate. I mean, I, I've always taken, when I can, I try to take the approach of instead of done to me, done, you let me be part of this. Right?

And so it's a, it's a participation sport. Let me re try it. Let me use ai.

You know, maybe somebody who's never written a line of code could use AI to like very little something. Oh wow, that's really cool. Maybe I could write, I'm not a writer, but I could get some help from doing that.

Maybe it's gonna power the next person that writes, maybe the next David Bryn will be a writer, because AI helped them get started. You build some confidence. Great.

Doing it. Great. I, I was such an optimist.

Anyways, you know, I just basically agree with everything you guys are saying, but I see AI as a time to transparency accelerator. You know, so many things don't get happen because we just don't have time. And I think about this in the security context, all the bloody time, but just in life, you know, it's, it's, I would, I'd really like to bring you joy to do this, but I can't because it'll take seven minutes when we've got a couple seconds, or it'll take seven days or seven years.

And we're collapsing a lot of that, you know, to create the opportunities for people to do things which include, you know, business, work, building things, people like doing things. And, and we're going to do it forever now. We'll just be able to do a wider range of them that we never crossed our mind, because we didn't have The time.

You didn't have the time. Speaking of time, we're about out of it here. I was gonna say, hey, this is gonna wrap up our special tech strong gang episode from RSA.

We hope you've enjoyed it. We've got a full tech, strong TV schedule following this, so stay tuned for that. We'll be back tomorrow with a fresh tech strong gang back at our studios in Boca.

Until then, on behalf of Mitchell, Ashley, Chris Blask, Mark Miller, Alan Shimel, enjoy. We're out. I'm Bonnie Schneider, sustainability contributor to the Techstrong Group.

I'm excited to introduce you to a groundbreaking new initiative from Techstrong Research, the sustainability pulse meter. The pulse meter offers valuable insights into how environmental responsibility factors into tech purchasing decisions for key players in the industry. Position your company as a leader in the industry and differentiate from your competitors with the sustainability pulse meter offered exclusively from Techstrong research.