Techstrong Gang – April 22, 2024

Hey everyone, I'm Bonnie Schneider and welcome to the Textron Gang. Today is Earth Day and our whole show will be talking about various aspects of this important day and how we can preserve the planet. So stay with us.

Textron gang is coming right up. Hi, welcome to the Textron Gang. I'm Bonnie Schneider, and today of course is Earth Day.

So we are going to be talking about a lot of important topics related to Earth Day. I wanted to start off first by introducing today's co-host with me, Mike Baard, our head of content at Techron. Great to Have you.

Great to be here as always. And yes, saving the planet. It's important.

It Absolutely is. Uh, you know, earth Day is something I always remember as a child, and I was curious looking up, well, how long has Earth Day been around? And it actually started in 1970.

So, um, do you remember doing those like experiments with school, like on Earth Day and everything? I Remember when it first came out, it was kind of a controversial subject to begin with. A lot of people were like, you know, this is some sort of conspiracy against carbon fuels and oil companies.

And it's funny, we're having the same conversation, what, three decades later? Maybe four. I can't count that on.

You're right, it's true. It was considered, I guess, controversial, but it's grown so much. It's Earth Day isn't just obviously in the US it's all over the world.

Hundreds of countries, millions of people celebrating it. And, and they're honoring it in different ways. You know, from planting trees to doing educational programs this year, 2024, there's a special theme.

It's the planet versus plastics. And, um, an interesting theme because I think a lot of us think first thing about how can we do better with Earth is to recycle and plastic bottles don't use them or make sure you, you know, when you're throwing out your garbage, you're dividing it up. Um, have a, a water bottle that's, um, you know, metal that's not plastic.

Simple things like that because of plastic and health that comes to play. But on a greater scale with Earth Day plastics are also in other aspects of, I say particulars that we don't necessarily think about. Um, I wrote a book on sustainability and climate change.

One of the things I felt was interesting is, this is kind of surprising, but when you're recycling, let's say your clothes, that that's something that produces a lot of carbon. Can you guess, Mike, and it's something, I'm gonna give you a clue, but it's something I think you wear a lot of. But what is one of the, the least degradable or it takes the longest to biodegrade items of clothing.

You just take a Yes, I'm, I'm gonna guess golf shirts, Clothes, and if you would look down I is an answer is sneakers. Ah. And you, I, that's so interesting because I think everybody at least has, you know, most people have a pair or two and um, that's what takes the longest in the landfill to, to degrade.

So why is that plastic is plastic and little particles of your sneakers that maybe you don't even notice? So, um, kinda interesting. Well, I can use that in my personal life.

'cause you know, my spouse is always after me to get better looking sneakers 'cause I wear them till they basically fall off. So now I'm gonna continue to wear them till they fall off. Yeah.

Save the planet a bit. Um, you know, and one of the things I thought was interesting, um, for the Textron gang was also to talk about where else there's plastic. And I think most of us know when we're using our own tech, there's plastic, um, wires and there's plastic parts to our, our laptops and things like that.

But in, in data centers itself, there's a lot of plastic. And, and that can be, um, you know, when it comes to, I mentioned wires, but there's also, um, other parts that are within, um, different components of data centers that are plastic. I mean, that was something we were just asked talking about that.

Yeah, You brought this up before the show and frankly I was a little surprised. Um, 'cause when I think of data centers, I think of, you know, metal, lots of metal, lots of racks. But it turns out there's a lot of plastic hiding in that data center.

And a lot of it is this very expensive, super conditioned plastic that they create to kind of hold the racks together. So it, it's designed not to melt in the heat, but then it turns out when it comes to recycling, I was looking this up on, uh, data Center magazine actually. And they were saying that on average though, one megawatt data center will kick off about 33,000 pounds of emissions from plastic as you recycle all that stuff.

And so that's not an insignificant number. I mean, there's lots of other sources of plastic in the world, but everybody needs to do their bit. Right.

Yeah. And, you know, it's one of the dichotomies that we face, um, trying to solve a sustainability issue. On one hand, you're, you're trying to do that, um, be careful, use less plastic, but on another hand you wanna be use less energy.

So you wanna focus on cooling and cooling in a data center. Well, guess what, that's another problem because cool, the cooling mechanisms also use plastic. So we have this also happening when it comes to air conditioning.

Air conditioning uses energy, but it keeps us cooler. So, um, it's definitely gonna be a challenge to use less energy and also use less plastic at the same time. And this plastic issue is becoming a major problem.

It's not only showing up in our water systems, but, um, funny enough, I, you know, I track a lot of the archeology stuff and they're finding, you know, microplastics in archeology digs where they're digging, you know, into the sediment for several hundred years, sometimes thousand years, because the plastic just keeps settling down into the, into the dirt layers. And they're also finding it in on places like, you know, the permafrost up in the Arctic is coming up with all this plastic stuff. At the end of the day, that stuff can't be good for us as humans.

So, you know, I got a feeling it's probably linked to a lot more illnesses than we know Probably, you know, and that, that is one of the bigger issues about Earth Day when we talk about plastics, is, um, how does it affect our health and, uh, the risks that we have there. Thinking about plastic that maybe was from 20 or 30 years ago, buried beneath the Earth, that would really confuse an archeologist, I think if they, if they were looking to, to, to date an artifact. And there's something, you know, for recent times that unfortunately settled in.

Um, so some of the solutions that we, we see to phase out plastic is, um, something that's more biodegradable, new technology to create something that, um, maybe would work in lieu of plastic. And we're also seeing in our daily lives changes that, that I know, um, I lived in New York recently and I was, uh, there when they, when plastic bags were banned from stores, plastic straws are replaced with paper straws. So we're, we're seeing it in real time.

A lot of this, um, attention to reducing plastic. Yeah. We're in my house.

We use a lot of metal straws now, but I've, I've noticed it's kind of a challenge to get that little brush in there to clean them out. So it takes a While. You have to remember to do that.

That's so true. And then, and in fact, it seems odd. I was in, I don't know, uh, maybe it was a, a gas station.

I was buying something and I, I saw they had plastic straws and I was always surprised like, oh, they still have those. And that was something that was so common, um, as well. Well one of the, the issues that Earth Day and, and this is one of the reasons Earth Day exists, is to create awareness and to create more education around it.

So, um, you know, like younger people are well aware of all of this and, and very passionate about it, but not everybody is, and and like you were saying, some people might be skeptical and, and think there's, you know, messaging behind it. Mm-Hmm. But the bottom line is, um, earth Day only grows year after year.

And we talked about, uh, the data center, but see these things Mm-Hmm. There's tons of plastic in each one of these. Absolutely.

There's billions of these now, including your keyboard. Yeah. Um, and I think recycling all that's gonna be a challenge, right?

Taking this apart to get to the plastics and then the metals, that's a, a job for somebody or a Robot. That's, and that's a good point because, um, that was gonna be, uh, that's my, my next thing I wanted to mention is that this is a problem because not only, you mentioned laptops, we have that, you know, the mouse, that every, there's a million things that we need to recycle. And we've been talking a lot on this show on the Textron Gang about ai, and Alan was just saying how things are moving so rapidly.

Okay, that's great. So once things moves rapidly, guess what the first thing say is, well, okay, get rid of this. You know, get the, get the newer one, get them more mono ones.

So that has become someone's job. But there's issues with having that done by a human. Um, one, it's time consuming and they have other things they wanna be doing.

And two, there's also a safety risk in dealing with wires and cables and all and all that. So one of the, um, the, the new areas being looked at is how can we automate our recycling of hardware and plastics? And, um, that's, that's something that's gonna be, I think, more explored maybe using ai, but figuring out ways to do it without, without human doing it.

Hold that thought. Hold That Thought. Yeah, no, I think, um, it's interesting about that.

Um, to your point about the safety issue, um, a lot of this stuff also has, to your point, stuff that's lethal to humans in it. And what happens with these things is they wind up in landfills in South America and other places, and then people try to go in there and get that stuff out 'cause it's valuable. Oh right.

And you can sell it, but that stuff's killing them and it's mercury and all these other things. And so it's not just the plastics, it's really the whole planet issue. But, and to me it always comes back to the same thing.

It's the fact our health. Yes. Uh, that's exactly true.

So, um, think about that, I guess the next time that you're, um, upgrading or, or getting rid of equipment, like where is it going? What's the best way to do it or look to having a system that's already in place as, uh, digital transformation takes place? I think a lot of, um, companies are dealing with this where they're getting rid of all sorts of, um, equipment and upgrading or just simplifying and maybe you don't need as much hardware.

Obviously, every time we get a laptop it's a little smaller and, you know, so, so it's, it's just something to think about on this Earth Day. Have a plan ahead, you know, for your organization of, of how are we going to be recycling as we grow? Lemme ask you a question 'cause you follow this more closely than I do.

Um, I read that a lot of the plastics that we do recycle don't actually get recycled. You know, that was really disappointing. As someone who's been dividing bottles for many years.

I read that as well. I think I saw report on it. I can't say for sure that's true.

I, but I, I have seen that in many areas. I mean, I don't think that means that we should stop doing it. I mean, because even if it's a percentage of it, um, doesn't end up in a landfill or is recycled to me, you know, that's, that's still worth it if you can.

Um, so, but I did, I did see that, and I'll have to keep an eye on that as well. But hey, it's Earth Day. So we're, you know, talking about plastic, we're talking about data centers and we're talking about recycling, but there's a lot more to talk about, um, when it comes to Earth Day because this is, um, obviously Earth Day, i, I said started in 1970, so, uh, over 50 years ago.

But we're gonna have a lot more earth days and we'll be talking more about, um, sustainability goals when it comes to the cloud. That's gonna be coming up next in our next segment of the Techron Gang. So stay with us.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Techron Gang. I'm Bonnie Schneider, joined by Mike Baard.

And we are gonna be talking about data centers and also the cloud, because it's Earth Day, earth Day 2024. The theme is to talk about, um, how we can reduce use of plastics. But we're also talking just in general about sustainability.

And one of the things I, on Ecotech insights, which, um, I encourage you to check out, I've interviewed many thought leaders on this topic. Cloud infrastructures, how do we align this rapid growth that we're seeing, but also with sustainability And cloud providers are saying, you have to have a green cloud. Things should be green.

And every aspect of a data center turn to renewable energy, huge corporate leaders are, are saying that as well and, and doing it. And following up by that. And um, Mike, I know you've been seeing that with the people that you speak to as well.

Yeah. And you see a lot of ratings these days where, uh, the cloud service provider will say, first of, we'll start with we're carbon neutral. And that can be measured in a lot of ways.

And sometimes I'm not quite clear that they're all measuring the same thing in the same way. But you can get a, a better understanding of how much carbon your software running in the cloud is actually kicking off. And then you can factor that into your metrics.

And in Europe, you're kind of required to do that now because it's part of their whole, their ahead of us on this whole conversation. But I believe that ultimately everybody who uses something in the cloud is gonna generate some sort of metric. And you can see, and I always think that, you know, people will do the right thing if they have a metric in front of them and they can track it.

But otherwise it's just kind of a theoretical construct and you forget about it. 'cause there's nothing there to kind of look at. And I guess the old saying is, you know, things measured or things done.

But I think that needs to apply here. I think so too. And I think in the beginning, um, there might be a total misconception or maybe that people are accurate and estimating, or estimating how much energy are we using?

And some of the newer tools we, we covered, um, in an interview I did with Dynatrace, their, their carbon impact app where they're able to first measure and then track and then provide actionable insights. But that's one of many that we're seeing. A lot of new tools are coming out there.

Um, maybe they are coming starting from Europe, but we're seeing them for US companies as well to measure the carbon use and also, um, to track it. And then the other side of it is, when we talk about data centers that we were talking about earlier, is for everything to return to be using a hundred percent renewable energy. A lot of companies have that goal for 2040 or 2030, and there's obviously a ways to go, but it seems that renewable, you're, you're seeing a lot of renewable energy companies partnering with, um, with data centers and data center development and, and, and cloud as well.

Um, also, I did an interview with a company that talked about when building a a data center. He, he, it was a construction company using all, um, sustainable materials. So I just think it goes into so many different aspects of it.

Um, Do you think we're gonna achieve those goals? 'cause a lot of people have stated those goals, but I I'm not quite clear that we're gonna hit them all. I mean, what's your sense of where are we on this journey?

I think that we probably will because, well, a couple different reasons. You know, there's always, and I, you know, two reasons. Like you want to, and you have to, we'll, we'll start with you want to, you were saying, given the chance people will do the right thing and wanna and want to do this, um, it, you know, it's, it it's exciting to be part of something that's so new and can we get all renewable energy?

Let's try. But then there's, do we have to, and with regulations that are coming across globally, it it makes sense. There's also an incentive.

A lot of governments are providing incentives to, to use renewable energy. So people are getting in, um, on the bandwagon for that because, uh, and I just see this across, even just LinkedIn writing about, Hey, did you know that there's this available, there's that available. So I think it's a combination of all of those factors.

But we've already re reached so many, um, goals that probably would've seen impossible years ago. You know, here we are on 2024 Earth Day talking about this. So progress has been made.

I think it will continue. I think one of the things that people aren't really taking into account enough here is there's a whole movement called finops. And finops is about how do I optimize my cloud costs and track that?

Well, there's a direct correlation between cloud costs and how much energy is being kicked off because energy is the output of usage. So I think there's a virtuous cycle of things that can be measured here in a way that, um, will benefit organizations to their bottom line. 'cause ultimately everybody wants to save money on their cloud spending.

And the back end of that might be the, the derivative is, oh, by the way, and we're kick it off less carbon. I, I agree. And there's also, when you look at the big picture of corporate objectives and when they're putting out to their shareholders, this is what we're doing.

We're responsible, um, this is a big part of it. So there, there's a saving money, this is the right thing to do, but there's also the public relations, the presentation of our company and how, how we're operating. Now, to be fair, on the other side of this, I've talked to some folks in the energy sector and you know, they're not laughing all the way to the bank, but it's pretty close.

And their point of view on it is great for all the renewable stuff, but the demand for power, for compute, 'cause of AI is far exceeding anything we've had before. And they're like, we, renewables can't keep up. So we're seeing more demand for, um, energy sources that are carbon based.

And so, you know, Or energy sources that, that we we're not using or as much of like nuclear energy. I, I spoke to a company, um, that, that, uh, specializes in that. And their demand for data centers has, you know, I think that's why they, they're out there.

So alternative energy for sure. Um, you know, and it's really like anything else where when we're in this, uh, uh, um, desire to switch to renewables, there has to be that balance because you don't want people to go without heat or without, uh, cooling. And you don't want your equipment to do that either.

So, um, I think you're right. I think that there, that the goals will be met with the reality of what's possible. I think the data centers themselves are moving, right?

There used to be, and it kind of ebbs and flows, but for a while there, data centers were just, you know, something companies built as near to their offices as they could reasonably get. Then there was kind of a, an awareness of energy costs and there was a shift towards let's build data centers on rivers and Iceland and wherever else we could find a cool spot. And then it shifted back towards, we were gonna put the data center closer to the point of consumption because we wanted to improve the application experience.

So there was this whole movement back towards, um, clusters of exchanges. And now I wonder if we're gonna see the other shift, and we're gonna go back to, we're gonna put data centers in remote locations where there's a lot of cooling and we'll just build better networks. That's True too.

I mean, if there's better cooling, obviously there's gonna be, um, less of a need, um, for cooling. But I was thinking back to what you were saying before about the demand for ai. Um, it'll also plan on, okay, let's say we're in a situation where we, and there's more energy than, than than than we can provide.

There also has to be the way to get to, to, to deliver the energy. So for like, logistically. So I think AI is gonna play a role in that, in delivering, um, different, different ways of, uh, if you have a, especially in a data center, that's an obscure location.

Okay, what if there's a problem, how do we get there? How do we, you know, that was the backup plan. I think that's, that's what I was trying to say.

I think that's part of it. I Know there's an old joke that says the future of the data center is one person and a dog, and the dog is there to keep 'em from touching anything. That's right.

I could see that. Well, um, you know, it's, it is a great topic for Earth Day, uh, 2024. We're talking about plastics and, um, kind of switching.

We're gonna switch gears in our, our final section of this show and get you into your holiday mode. Maybe you're planning a trip this summer, maybe it's on the sea. Well stay tuned on the Techstrong Gang.

We're gonna talk more about cruise ships and some new AI innovations there. Next, I'm Bonnie Schneider, sustainability contributor to the Techstrong Group. I'm excited to introduce you to a groundbreaking new initiative from Techstrong Research, the sustainability pulse meter.

The pulse meter offers valuable insights into how environmental responsibility factors into tech purchasing decisions for key players in the industry. Position your company as a leader in the industry and differentiate from your competitors with a sustainability pulse meter offered exclusively from Techstrong Research. Welcome back to the Techron Gang on this Earth Day.

Well, we are talking about ways to be more sustainable and reduce carbon emissions and of course, use less energy. And it's not just on land, it's also at sea. So today, uh, we're talking also about cruise ships and Mike Bazar joins me now and, and Mike, um, I don't know if you've ever been on a cruise.

There's, there's a lot to think about. Typically, I think most people think about food because they're constantly providing food 24 hours a day. But the people that are running these, these ships and, and obviously navigating them, they're also thinking, gosh, we're, we're using a lot of energy.

How can we reduce energy use or at least optimize it? Maybe make decisions as, as the cruise takes its path, uh, to, to use less energy. Well, AI is stepping into the forum here, and it's optimizing fuel consumption for cruise ships.

And one of the ways it's doing it, which is kind of, um, takes me back to meteorology, just my background using the internet of things to have devices. Imagine all over the ship field. I don't see these devices, but they're, they're measuring different things.

Like I imagine, uh, the wind that they're facing, the amount of energy that they're using in different areas of the ship, I I'm sure it's very, very complex. But using the internet of things, um, will actually give us, give, give the captain of the ship a better insight on, well, if we go this way or we do this or we leave, I imagine the engine going for this time. There's a better way to do it.

So the decisions will be AI automated and, and, and it'll really help to reduce energy. I think. I think it's a good idea.

I think to your point, the, there's too many variables. It's too complex to figure out by yourself. Mm-Hmm.

And it changes constantly based on whether what's going on with the waves and everything else. I think we've seen the same thing be applied in airplanes or kind of working through the same kind of logistical issues. And I know I just read a piece where somebody was pointing out the amount of energy and carbon that trains are kicking off is amazing, and that could be run more efficiently as well.

So I think we're gonna have like AI everywhere to help us, um, manage our energy flow, including data centers. By the way. We'll probably have AI to manage the data centers to help them more efficiently.

And I'm almost certain that data scientists are building this, and it's just a question of at what cost can we execute it and how do we get it down into an inference engine that can run on some little monitor on a cruise ship. I, I think so too. And, but it'll also be, um, a lot of decisions are gonna have to be made because I think that sometimes they'll, they'll be looking at, well, this route or this way, way of doing things saves more energy.

But, uh, we promised our passengers, you know, this stop here, I'm just guessing on a cruise ship. So I think, I think it's going to, uh, advance the use of optimizing energy, but it may bring up some new insights that, that people that are in charge, that are running, these are gonna have to make decisions, um, maybe in ways that they didn't expect, especially, um, for ships, you know, that are, um, maybe taking a day at sea or overnight, um, the, the efficiency in will be important, reducing the environmental impact. And then of course, and the bottom line is this gonna cost us more money or save us money.

I, I personally am not a great cruiser. I've been on a few, um, most recently I was in, uh, France and went on a cruise around the rivers around Bordeaux, but I don't get it myself. I mean, it's kind of like not the best experience in the world, but I don't know, do you cruise?

No, my sister, uh, does and, and, uh, and my brother-in-Law and they love it. I, I, yeah, I feel the same way. Do I?

When as a child, and I remember getting a little seasick and, um, yeah, and, and, and, and I just remember them constantly bringing out, there was like, you think meals, three meals a day, they're, the food was just coming too much. It was like midnight buffet. Now it's the after midnight buffet, but a lot of people love it.

We're, we're here coming to you in Florida. So cruise, cruise ships are everywhere here. So they're obviously very popular.

And for those that are looking, um, to enjoy a vacation and think, well, it's, you know, you wanna think that what your, your activity over your vacation is sustainable. I think it also is, is a positive that the passengers are on a ship where we're optimizing our use of energy. We're not wasting energy because as we know, carbon emissions, um, there's a lot of misconceptions of, of where the biggest problem is, but it's transportation.

That's what we're seeing on emissions. So it makes sense. Yeah.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for your god-given right to go cruising and inspire me, but just personally, I'm kind of, yeah, quite getting it. But I wonder with the energy consumption of that, um, will people pick a cruise line based on how energy efficient it is?

Or, or is that gonna be lost on, you know, page 49 of the brochure somewhere in a footnote? I think that's a good point. You know, let's say their marketing for cruises outta California, I could see that being a big selling point, you know, for, for folks there that are, um, perhaps, uh, more focused on that.

So it, that is interesting. It could be, it could be something for marketing and it could bring up bookings. So in the end, whoever, you know, if there's someone saying, oh, this might cost us, maybe it'll bring in more revenue.

So, um, we'll have to see. You always like to think that these sustainable solutions won't cost. They'll actually help.

Well, maybe we'll see that marketing campaign from, I don't know, carnival Cruise lines or somebody touting the energy efficiency of what they're doing. Yeah, of course it might be more efficient if they never left port in the first place. Oh, yes.

But what do I Know that's true, to have their vacations? Well, um, you know, great topics today, earth Day 2024. Uh, appreciate you joining us here on the Techron Gang.

And it's been a, and a great show and everyone has a great Earth Day, but I want you to please stay with us, uh, on Techstrong tv. We have terrific interviews coming up and we look forward to seeing you next time on the Text. Strong Day.