Salesforce vs. Oracle: The AI and Cloud Showdown | TSG Ep. 946

Hey everyone. It's Salesforce versus Oracle. Sort of like Godzilla versus King Kong.

You are watching Textron Gang. Hey everyone, happy Thursday to you. This is Alan Shimmel and welcome to conference week.

Um, most of us are somewhere or another at one conference or heading to another conference, but we managed to pull it all together. And we're going to give you a great look at some inside hotel rooms, um, as, as we film today's or we film, I'm so old. As we record today's, today's text on gang, let me introduce you to our traveling band, band of gang members.

We've got, uh, I actually, I think out in Vegas, Mitch Ashley and John Swartz. We've got Mike, who I think is over the pond again in Amsterdam. Yeah, true it up.

And then the only one actually home is our fearless cyber warrior, Terry Robinson. Um, I'm actually coming at you from Houston today, where immediately following recording the gang, I'll be interviewing a lot of folks at the Qualys Rock on conference, rock Risk Operations Conference, rock on. Anyway, we'll, we thought you were filming the latest Scorsese movie there.

Yeah. That's why you filming with your hat. I, what do you think?

I hear you paying houses. Um, Wow. Good One.

Uhhuh movies are my thing. But anyway, let's, let's jump in. Let's jump into, uh, Thursday's gang.

So Mike, you know, John is, is going right from the Oracle event to the Salesforce event. I guess that makes him like one of the little Japanese, one of the Japanese guys in the old King Kong Godzilla movies and stuff, right? Yeah.

Running around. But what, you know, these titans are certainly going at it. What's up, John is kind of through the merits of virtual services, I guess is now, uh, engaging in quantum computing and being in two places at one time.

Right? But anyway, it seems like Oracle and Salesforce decided both to have their big conference this week and kind of, um, we're throwing some various elbows, but John, you covered these stories on Techstrong A but I can tell you I read them and from here in Amsterdam, I was like, kind of like, so what? I got a whole lot of me too going on here, but that's just what it looks like from over here.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. So I, I'm gonna leave, leave it to Mitch to talk about, uh, the particulars about what Oracle is doing.

I actually think, and I think we talked about this last night, Mitch, uh, we're pretty impressed with what Oracle is doing. Um, more so maybe because we're being inundated or in my case, I'm talking to a lot of the executives who are kind of hammering home certain ideas or themes. And Ellison did the same thing last night in a keynote speech.

But just to round it up really quickly, there's a number of dueling conferences and press releases and news announcements going on between these two companies that has the, this deep divisive history between one another. So, um, we'll start with Salesforce since, uh, they jumped the gun and they announced some AI partnerships or deepening partnerships with open AI and anthropic on the enterprise enterprise platform. They also pledged in a very, very interesting almost p politically tinged announcement, $15 billion investment in San Francisco over five years after the CEO Mark Benioff basically sided with Trump and thought it might be a good idea to bring the National Guard into San Francisco to clean up the streets, which went over extremely well on being very facetious.

And, uh, here in Oracle in Las Vegas, there are a number of things they did, um, this new AI data platform to bridge enterprise data with, uh, generative ai. Uh, they're gonna deploy 50,000 a MD AI chips in major cloud infrastructure expansion. But what I wanna mention is that, is that the idea that these two companies, which normally never have concurrent events, are doing it head to head in a sense, trying to steal thunder from one another.

So I've been asking both companies if this was intentional, they claim it was a coincidence. But I don't think there are no coincidences when it comes to Oracle and Salesforce. There's this deep seated animosity between the companies to gain attention.

And a lot of it as, as Jack Gold and I were talking about is this ill will between the companies after Benioff, who basically worked for Ellison when was tutored and mentored by Ellison, left the company to, for form Salesforce and compete head on. So, you know, this is not unusual. There are other things Snowflake and Databricks have had, uh, shows at the same time to compete with one another.

I remember Apple famously when they announced the iPhone in January, 2007, that was CES week. It does happen, but in this one it, it does get personal. And I kind of wanted to just switch hand it off to Mitch because Mitch, um, gave me some really interesting insight into what Oracle was doing.

And, and, and it was eerie because a lot of the executives were literally mirroring what Mitch had said later when I talked to them. Um, I, I think Mitch has a really good insight into what Oracle's trying to do, and I think it is interesting, and I think it is impressive what they're trying to do. Thanks, John.

And, uh, yeah, I, no, I didn't do any messaging work worm, so it's just coincidence. No, no, no, no, no. They, they are following your lead, I think.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Um, you know, and, and, and I can't do justice to Salesforce 'cause I'm not up to speed. So I, I can't speak or compare necessarily what happened there, here, here, I think this is a pretty big mic drop moment for Oracle.

And here's why. I'm, I'm not usually like, you know, we're super overwhelmed by how positive, what I think about what Oracle's doing in this case, the best way I can describe it is this isn't just Oracle supporting AI in their applications. What they've done is kind of flipped the table and said, we have already solved the problem of bringing your data to ai.

Matter of fact, bring your AI to, to the data. 'cause we've got all the data from all the, all the SaaS applications and enterprise applications, C-R-M-E-R-P, you name it, NetSuite, all that kind of thing. All, all the Oracle databases that, that you use.

Um, 'cause he announced both an, an update to kind of Oracle data AI database as well as the, uh, Oracle data platform. And what their strategy is, is we'll pre vectorize all this data for you and we'll solve the problem of not exposing your data to the models to train the models by putting that into essentially a giant rag in front of any AI system that you wanna, you want to query and use the data against. So the data doesn't leave, um, your Oracle environment, whether it's cloud or on-prem and all that kind of thing.

You still apply the same, uh, security policy, privacy guardrails, all of those things, even sovereignty issues. And, and we will, we essentially pre-read all of your data for ai and they also have built, um, uh, a querying capability through the, through this vectorization to be able to tie together, you can do queries, you know, uh, through AI across different database sources, your own, into, into, uh, SaaS applications that they have. Um, they'll even do this as a front into third party data sources.

So like maybe an S3 bucket or something where you have, you have data that you wanna extend this to. So it, it's really, we're taking care of the enterprise concerns around protecting data and making sure that it stays within the corporate controls, um, and all the compliance requirements that you have to meet as a large organization and then make it ready to use by ai. So it's really the, it's the problem they've solved.

The problem that everybody else has is now how do we product the data that we've got an AI capability and a, and a and an agent generation capability. I think that's pretty massive. It, it's huge.

And they, the fact that they've done this ahead of time before they announced it, it's really AI ready, they said it's available now, you can use this now. You don't have to take any steps to vectorize all this stuff. Um, and I'm not doing justice to all the things that they announced, but that's essentially the strategy that they've implemented.

I think it's pretty brilliant. I'm, I'm not a Oracle fanboy or anything. Um, you know, I've run Oracle and some shops I, I've cursed Oracle, like Pierce Microsoft from running them.

'cause sometimes they're a pain in the butt. But I think it's pretty, a pretty amazing strategy. I will, I will play devil's advocate on the other side of this thing.

So they have a rag capability, them and everybody and his brother has a RAG capability and they're trying to maybe be a data management company and that's nice. But at the core, Oracle is still Oracle, the relational database company, which is structured data, the footprint of Oracle around unstructured data that I need to drive the AI models is relatively small compared to many other companies. And so, as I read through all this stuff, I was kind of like, well, this is nice, but I didn't see anything in there that I haven't read from IBM MongoDB and a hundred other database companies.

So I was kinda like, what's, where, where's the beef is if I would go back in time for, for a slogan, Let me, let me, let me, let me tell you where the beef is. Let me, let me tell you where the beef is. The beef is in the amount of money counters that Larry Ellison has hired over the last three months or so, as Oracle stock has gone through the roof and he's seen his net worth go up by 30 something percent or some mm-hmm.

Crazy number like that so that his son can go out and buy every media company under the sun. Okay? Really?

When I, when I look at what Oracle is doing, yeah, they're doing, Mitch, you gave a great recap of it. But what, what, what's driven this boom in Oracle is they've done a great job of integrating themselves into this new AI power structure. Everything from connections into the White House.

And I, I only said it half facetiously about his son. The White House looks favorably about him taking over media as well. So he's ingrained himself, uh, into everything from the White House to open AI to a MD to Nvidia.

You know, they, they are just making deals and, and becoming a central player into all of these things. And as this AI saga, you wanna call the bubble or not, as this AI economy continues to rise, Oracle is firmly, firmly strapped in and, and taken the ride. And that's why we pay so much attention to it today.

I think it's a good, a good way to look at it is you kinda widen the lens, right? And look at strategically what they've done, not just with their products. That's spot on.

I mean, it's, they've put themselves in the, in the next, I mean, I assume you guys have all seen this Bloomberg, uh, graphic, a graphic outta Bloomberg describing the AI economy and this relative circles, right? And, and, and how the, the, the connectivity is this one's invested, this one's sold services or product, right? And Oracle's right in there, man, You know what?

Oracle did that to my, to, to my amazement, what Oracle did was they out Benioff Benioff. So Mark Benioff prides himself as being the marketer. He, he has actually said to people, I know, uh, who who've report on him I am marketing is how he put put.

But in this case, Oracle, which everyone always thought of as the dowty old company that was dusty and moldy, is actually taking the initiative and is at the center of, of a lot of these things, you know, whether we like it or not. And, um, that has, that has a really knot, I know it's gna, its Salesforce. That's why they're, they, they lean heavily on celebrities and kind of flash and the CLE lights.

Uh, but Oracle, I I, I think this to my amazement, they've actually are at the center of something that's very vital. And for years, I, I, I almost never thought of 'em in that, in that light, Can anybody tell me how much revenue Salesforce generates? That is not related to CRM?

Because, and I look at all this stuff and I'm like, it's nice to see all these lovely announcements, but when I look at the revenue flow, it's all CRM and maybe some add-on marketing tools around that. This is not big enough. Um, an m of a thing, the build of an AI empire on, if I go compare Salesforce to what Microsoft is doing, Salesforce kind of looks silly.

So again, I look at these, both these guys, but Mike, and go, you know what, they don't seem to have a muscle to go do what they wanna say. And they do. You know, we, I spoke about this last week on, on Shimmy says you have a, you have an AI economy here, where this year alone, there's something like $500 billion actually being spent this year.

Singapore Singapore's GDP with resulting revenue of about $19 billion Somalia. So is Salesforce part of the Somalia economy? Yeah, they are.

They're, they're in the som they're in that 19 billion Somalia, but doesn't stop everyone from investing $500 billion. Right? So everyone's in for the ride here.

Mm-hmm. And they're all feeding at the trial. And look it, I I am, I feel compelled to say this.

I'm not saying that AI's not real. I'm not saying it's gonna disrupt everything. ai.

They put out their new figure three oh robot. I was talking about it with Mitchell last night. We watched it there, there, look, there's no doubt this stuff's changing the world.

But at what timeframe, at what cost and how much are we investing now? And how long are we gonna wait to see Salesforce investment in, in agent force payoff? Well, that's right.

Wins the return right on that. And how big and for how long That, that's the bottom line. All right, we gotta take a break.

I gotta go ahead. I'll give you the last word, Mike. Or, or just before somebody else shows up with a, a, a whole fleet of AI agents and puts those in front of every other app out there and turns Salesforce into what a backend service to Sam.

I, I think they'd be happy to be the manager backend of everybody else's agent. 'cause that's the other fight, right? Is I wanna manage your agents.

I don't care whose agents they are. Um, anyway, let's take a break here on the gang. We'll come back and we got, we've got more.

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Black clerk, digital executive protection, defending the new attack surface your personal life. Hey folks, we're back and we're gonna shift gears slightly, but Red Hat this week was talking about their distributed computing platform that's built on a version of, uh, open source project that came out of, I believe it was Berkeley originally. But, um, it kind of is a distributed framework that's counter to Cuda from Nvidia.

I cannot tell you from the life of me how much traction this thing is getting, but Red Hat Sure. Putting a lot of weight behind this thing in their cases is that, uh, AI can scale up. So it has to scale out, which requires a distributed computing platform and requires Kubernetes.

I mean, Mitch, is this where we're going? Does, do they have a, a chance here or is this kind of like Red Hat off on the side mission here and everybody else is more focused on, you know, how many compute engines can I throw in the cloud? Uh, I Think it's very much in, in, uh, keeping with Red Hat and their strategy In a way, it's bringing together a lot of the com components that they've been working on.

Um, I think you were talking, the thing you're talking about is lll, LLMD, which is outta uc, Berkeley, their Sky Computing lab sounds a little too close to Skynet, but that's a different issue. Um, but being, being able to deploy containers on OpenShift ai, their platform, um, and it also uses this VLLM, which is another open source standard. I think it came through one of their acquisitions in late last year that they had, oh, it's the, the neural magic company that they acquired, um, which is be able to distributed l and m workloads across Kubernetes clusters.

So, uh, uh, think of it as an alternative to Cuda via reference to, to Nvidia. So it really, what it's about is assembling the infrastructure to make it easier to get, uh, a AI into production on top of Kubernetes, on top of OpenShift ai by, by, uh, by co, by, uh, red Hat. And to, in a way, it's kind of the, the conclusion or the, the first big step, if you will, of the NeuroMag acquisition, where they productize this all together into an AI hub, uh, to be able to operate, operationalize your ai.

And that's, you know, a lot of the issue is getting AI into production. Well, if this is one of the obstacles, that's what they're addressing. Do you think also that we'll probably hear from Broadcom with VMware in the same context and they'll be making a similar case.

Maybe there'll be a, a different version of a, of a proprietary option of the, of these things. But it feels like to me, as I watch this split between training and inference, that inference is gonna be managed more by traditional IT teams. And this is gonna wind up being a battle between the traditional providers of platforms to those guys, which is VMware and Red Hat, and it's same guys over again.

It's just a different fight. Well, the two are very, very different workloads, right? Inferencing and training.

And most of us are not gonna do training that's, that's left up to, you know, people, they're gonna consume, you know, a thousand to one, the number of GPUs to be able to do those kind of workloads. I think this is, this is bread and butter it deployment of a ai. To your point, Mike, So I, you know, here, here's I think what you gotta realize, this is a major disruption coming down the pike.

The development deployment pipeline, everything platforming for AI applications. And no matter what you wanna, how you want to define an AI application, I'll, I'll leave it for you guys to fight over. But certainly the whole AI application development and, and deployment and and operations piece of this is a huge bone that these traditional IT guys are fighting over.

But I would pause it to say that it's not just the traditional IT guys that you've mentioned. I think NVIDIA has a huge stake in this game. 'cause it's cuda, they're gonna try to make cuda the language for, to, for tomorrow's AI platforms.

I think you're going to see a MD say, wait a second, we're gonna come out with an ecosystem that allows you to run these platforms on that are especially the inference stuff for, optimized for our chips. Broadcom, Broadcom, you know, very quietly has done a whole bunch of deals and seems to have the inference chip market well in hand, right? Well in hand.

They've done a huge amount of deals on that. And, and they're gonna wanna have their software. And, and the funny thing is, all these companies partner with each other, right?

They all, they all partner with each other, but at the end of the day, they all want to be the platform, the ecosystem provider that you are developing art because they know how big it is. It's going to be to develop these AI empowered applications. So I, I think that CIOs and traditional IT teams are having a conversation with some of the data science teams that go something like this.

Originally it was a Tiger team that built the AI project and then it was attached to that Tiger team. Maybe it was somebody who managed infrastructure and that was their contribution to that Tiger team. I think as you go to operationalize ai, the senior IT leadership is now kind of patting those people on the head and say, you know, thanks for playing, but if we're gonna manage this stuff at scale, it's gotta be done within the construct of the way we manage it today.

And for that, they're gonna go back to their traditional vendors that they standardize and say, you know, give me a platform that extends what I already have. 'cause I don't need another platform. I just need something that kind of lets me run these workloads.

Mitch, am I crazy or not? No, I think, I think you're right. And it's the argument to Alan Po.

Alan, your point is that the vertically integrated solution, is it the Apple or is it the open source? Is it the assembled, you know, open components and, and commercial products together? That's the two strategies I would contend most organizations are gonna be more comfortable with a platform that they're familiar with.

Not saying Nvidia can't win, but are you gonna go, They're gonna say CO is open. Well, yeah, CO is open, but it's not open like open, right? Not yet.

And it's not, it's, it's not adopted. Let me put it in that way. I'm not saying it isn't, isn't open, but you know, it's, it's not the same thing.

At least not yet. Not saying, and Vidia is everywhere. Great.

Then Cuda makes a ton of sense. But in this mixed market of everybody coming out with, you know, new chips, new technology, um, that's gotta push in Betty to really be open to be adopted in that way. Right?

Open, open Source is not the same thing as open interfaces, right? No, But I'll, I'll go back to that Bloomberg, uh, diagram I referenced and we we should get it up at one of these things. Yeah.

You know, so the size of your circle is pegged into how many hundreds of billions of dollars you, your worth is. And they got Nvidia there at four and a half trillion. That bubble takes up the whole diagram.

Don't bet against That's A lot of oxygen out of the room, doesn't it? Yeah. Don't, don't bet.

Against them. Just, just asking how much of that trillion came from seven customers? 4, 4, 4 and a half children.

Almost All of it. Yeah. How, how, how much of, of, of every person's, uh, retirement funds in this country are, are, are pegged into those same seven.

So mm-hmm. So I, you know, I'm listening to all this and I do worry about the security aspect, of course. Um, especially in that distributed sort of environment.

What about access control? I mean, red Hats or, uh, has had some, some issues in the past, you know? Um, so is all this stuff expands out, what does that, I mean, what does that really mean for security?

I think, Oh, don't worry about it. We'll, I, I think, I think it an sorry, and we'll get to it later. We'll get, I think it's an after.

Yeah, exactly. It's gonna be where it always was, right? Yeah.

Unfortunately, we're gonna do this, then we're gonna, we're gonna secure it later and not do a very good job of it. But It's on the chart. It's labeled someday.

Someday. Is that, it's not the roadmap slide anymore. It, it's on the, it's on the slide label.

And boy, I hope we have enough success to have this problem to Worry about it. Let's, boy, I hope we have the success before somebody hits us. So.

Well, it's, history's a guide. Let, let us take a break here. We're gonna come back.

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And Terry has a story up on Security Boulevard that I loved because it kind of got to the, the macro issues here. And it just says, are defenders rethinking their entire strategy from the hardware up to APIs to networks and everything? And are they having a conscious conversation about that?

Or are we just buying a bunch of peace parts to solve a particular issue? And then we hope we're gonna have a framework later. Terry, are, are we being proactive?

Finally? This would be a first in my career, but Yeah, I'd like to think that they're being proactive. I'm gonna say probably not.

We'll revert to type at some point, but yeah, this was interesting because, you know, uh, uh, these hardware, API and network vulnerabilities have really soared in the last year, right? Um, and, uh, I think it's a wake up call, uh, for companies, but I'm not sure how much they're gonna, they're gonna really heat it, but, um, you know, just so we can be clear here, I mean, it's like 88% increase in hardware vulnerabilities. That's from Bugcrowd, by the way.

Um, and the number of API bugs Rose 10%. So it's significant numbers that we're looking at. But do I think, I mean the, the, the security pros say yes, indeed.

Um, people are starting to maybe change their, uh, their whole, uh, strategy. I don't know. I haven't seen a lot of evidence of that.

Well, since I'm in Vegas, I have to, I have to, you know, use the moniker of W Wait, you tell me. There's gambling going on here. There's vulnerabilities in in IOT hardware.

I thought they had this covered all the all along. I'm shocked. These are the ones that always trip people up, right?

I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's not funny, but I mean, you know, hardware is like Alan, Alan, is there something fundamentally flawed in the thinking of cybersecurity professionals that they seem to be unable to approach all this stuff holistically. And you know, to Terry's point, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the phrase, this is a wake up call for cybersecurity folks and they all roll over and hit the snooze button, and that's that, That's right. Cybersecurity.

It Goes off every 15 minutes. And the, the Rip Van Winkle of the IT world Just insert, you're just assaulted every reader that we out thank a lot. But so fundamentally, fundamentally, I've got two really things I want to say here.

First of all, I will tell you that hardware, APIs, all of these things that are seeing huge increases in the number of vulnerabilities are not any less or better secure than they were two years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, we're suffering from Microsoft Windows syndrome, right? When Windows had 95 or 98% of the PC market, all of the vulnerabilities found were in Windows because that's where people were looking for them, because that's where we can make some, Hey hardware's gotten sexy. APIs represent a majority of the network of the, of the traffic on the internet.

So that's where the bad guys are looking for vulnerabilities, and that's where we're finding them. But they were there all along. They were there all along.

It's like Robin Banks. Yep. But here's the fundamental thing, and Mitch, Mitch and I learned this the hard way.

The whole vulnerability game in, in, in security is a bad news generator. And people, you know what? They just get desensitized to the bad news.

Wait, did you say I have 8 million or 8 billion vulnerabilities? Oh, I thought you said million. Thank god.

You know, it, it's, it's a bad news generator that we are like a water rolling off a duck's back. Right? It's just Yeah, I know, I know.

We, we've got that telephone book full of vulnerabilities and, and it's the same thing, quite frankly in AppSec now too. We're starting to see this, right? It's like, all right, let's worry about the runtime.

Right? I'm not even gonna bother over here. I'll worry about it in runtime.

Um, it's the nature of the vulnerability game. It's, it's a bad news generator and no one likes bad news. You know, it's funny, like at this show, there are two topics.

If you bring up they're, they're immediately deflected. It's the ai, the inevitability of the AI bubble and cybersecurity issues. Um, it's just kind of swept away because given all that's going on, all the money that's being thrown, all the hype that's being hit over our heads, these are, these are like the two unpleasant things that we don't want to talk about until we have to talk about.

Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and guys, it's been like that.

It's been like that for as long as I've been doing security, right? Mitch, we, we saw this when we were testing VAM in, what was that, 2003? 2003?

Yep. Yep. It was, well, you know, just Terry and I Are, Terry and I are gonna take great comfort in the fact that there'll be no end of AI related security incidents to write about for the next two years.

It's gonna be awesome. Well, what makes you think, think you're writing about us, us actually good news for us. We'll, we'll have the AI write about That's Great.

Security Boulevard. Yeah. Yeah.

Good News for us. Traffic, Well, I'll say is, uh, nice little IT device you got there. It'd be shame if something happened to it.

Yeah. Guess what? It's so, yeah.

So I mean, you know, a lot of the people I talked to said, well, yeah, we're starting to move closer to the sort cybersecurity by design. I just don't even know that that's No the least Bit true. You know, really.

No. Um, We, we, we actually discussed this, you know, we, we started the security. We restarted the Security Boulevard podcast.

Uh, Mitch, I think you were on the one a couple weeks ago. I was on this week's one. And, um, and that, and we spoke about this very issue, you know, and, and it's funny when you talk to it, people who don't know from security, you know, Mitch, they are shocked at this gambling going on at Rick's cafe, you know, but when you talk to security people Yeah.

This, this is the way it is, right? I mean, you know, why do you think we drink so much? Well, the ultimate in hype was, and Allison's talk, you know, he is, he like, he loves to be up there, right?

He's, he is kinda living over his kingdom and he is a, he is a great funded listen to, but he did say one thing, I just kind of got a little bit of, you know, spit up in the back of my throat there when he said, now there's all this AI generated code now that, that we're gaining doesn't have security vulnerabilities in it 'cause AI generate the code. Of course, of course. Oh, So, so Mitch, is there a book in Vegas on when the Tibet on when there's gonna be the first say, shall we say catastrophic AI security event because it's gotta be coming up soon?

I haven't, I haven't looked pursued the line, but you got, we can bet on everything in Vegas, so why not? Sure there is, or they'll start I bet the house that's, I bet the house is gonna happen in six months. Yeah.

Within six months. I don't know if you'd see it in Vegas, but I guarantee you the London bookies have a book on it. Has anybody checked Poller?

They're they're much more sophisticated. Lad Brook soon. Yeah, I think, I think, I think a lot of them right now when they watch this show will be, Hey, that's a good idea.

Yeah. Again, someone took my, someone took my $500 billion I idea. I could have been on the Bloomberg diagram.

It's just you Yeah. Have your own circle. But I, I mean, what, you know, for those of, seriously, for those of us who have been in the security game for a long time, it, I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm beaten and broken, but I'm beaten and broken.

That that's the way it's, it's, it's, you know, It's really when you follow with the Yeah. And your point is, yeah, There will be an incident and, and, and everyone, everyone will clutch their pearls and say, oh, dear God, I knew this was going to happen. And about three days later, we'll go back to normal.

No, I mean, I think we discussed a couple of weeks ago, right? That there has to be a nine 11 type event with cyber and it's, you know, So I think the one thing that's different about AI though, it's like, as one guy once told me, he said, you know, this AI stuff, it's one thing to be wrong. It's another thing to be wrong at scale and this AI stuff, we're gonna be wrong at scale.

Yep. There's a lot of things that could go wrong with this AI stuff at scale. But anyway, Hey, I, I've, I've gotta pull the plug on today's gang.

All of us have to, well, Terry, you're home, but the, the, the four of us have to go get on with our conferences. I have videos to be doing. Um, if you're, well, you'll be watching this on Thursday, and I will be, uh, streaming live right after the gang from Qualys.

I'll probably have Ed do the Qualis CEO on tomorrow, and you can talk to him as well as a whole bunch of people here at the Qualis event. John, we'll be looking forward to your Dreamforce. Yeah, I'm to Talk to, uh, will.

I am speaking of, uh, Salesforce. Oh, well, I'm, well I am, uh, yeah, very in a couple hours. Oh wow.

Very cool. Good. Yeah, he's an interesting guy.

Absolutely. And he does a lot of good, a lot of good in this world. Mm-hmm.

Mitch, enjoy Oracle. Mike, enjoy Amsterdam to you out there. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Stay tuned for More Tech Drunk tv. We'll be back tomorrow with more Techron Gang. Take care, everyone.