Digital Transformation Gets Real – Techstrong Con 2023

Hello and welcome to digital transformation gets real. I'm your host Mike vizard and we're gonna be talking today about what do we know about digital transformation? We've been at this for a while the hike was very heavy early on and arguably still continues, but we now have some real life experience.

So we're gonna jump into that with Marine nuts in who's cheap digital transformation opposite with broadcom, and we have Theresa Lanowitz who's head of cyber security evangelism for 18 teen business and we're gonna encourage you all the participate and ask questions because we have some experts here today that we were happy to pull together Marine Teresa welcome event. Thanks so much. Great to be here.

Thanks Mike. It's great to be here. So let's just jump in we've been at this now for I'll say more than half a decade and just to be fair.

I mean we were talking about this stuff before the pandemic Lorene. Let's start with you. What do we know now that we kind of wish we knew when we first started out.

What are you hearing from folks about the issues that they encountered and and what's still, you know hanging up a lot of these initiatives today. I think the main thing is we were learning right continuing to learn that you can't just you can't just as a leader write a check for digital transformation and think it's gonna work, right? You've got to participate.

You've got to change how you run your business. You've got to look at the entire end to end and understand how your business should be running in that whole flow before you allow, you know disparate changes to be made we're ending up with a lot of disjointed systems that where the data is totally different people are trying to get similar report, you know status out of the team level status out of the portfolio level and it's not matching up right because a lot of things got digitized during the pandemic rightly. So people needed to do their jobs from home for the first time.

And we have a lot of disparate systems now, so it's looking at that whole flow. I think this is where you know the kind of business agility. Did ASM, you know digital Transformations all sort of blending together now and how we actually make this a reality and so you can see have that line of sight from your you know, your executive level through your customer satisfaction.

All right, Teresa. What have you seen? Of course?

You've been an analyst previously. So you've been looking at this space for some time, but in a lot of instances were some of us just learned how to spell cybersecurity. So what's your status?

What's going on? Yeah. So as you mentioned I was an industry analyst prior to joining AT&T and I digital transformation is one of those phrases that we've been hearing at least for the past decade and nobody really had a clear path or a clear definition and Maureen start learning really touched on it talking about this idea of the business model.

So the business model has to be there. You also have to have that operational excellence and you want to have culture that aligns to going through this digital transformation and you want to make sure that you're going to have a good experience for your customers as well as your employees. But if you think about digital transformation overall did you when I when I was an analyst and I would say, you know, what is digital transformation and people would kind of give me their definition and I always say where does security fit in that and they would say well security is such a big undertaking.

It's not really part of digital transformation. I would say, how can that possibly be? Are you telling me you're going to do all of this?

Updating all of this renovation if you will on your business processes on your business model on your organization with cultural changes and so on you're not putting security there. And the pandemic really said, you know what? Yes digital transformation is something that we need to do but security needs to be at the center of it.

So every digital transformation initiative that I'm seeing now really has security at the core of it. And so I think with 2020 in the pandemic digital transformation that idea that possibility accelerated because we needed it to because our business models were all changing. And then what we saw after 20 2021 is organizations said, you know, we've made all of these changes all of these business changes all these cultural changes experience changes.

Now, we have to make sure that we're going to operationalize those so we saw this operate operationalization of digital transformation really start to come to fruition 2021 2022. And now where we're going is this idea of a digital first experience. So organizations have had this time to really figure out what they're going to do with digital transformation how they're going to transform those experiences other going to operational how they're going to operationalize those for that operational excellence and now it's moving to this idea of a digital first experience.

So it's it's additive and it's Progressive we're getting over time. All right cross your fingers progress is being made Marine. I want to jump into something you mentioned.

I feel at least that for every one amazing digital process that I may encounter in my daily life. There's nine that I just shake my head and go you got to be kidding me. You know top of that list is go to the doctor's office.

They hand you a tablet and you fill out the same form and then you show up three weeks later and fill out the same form again on the same tablet, you know, and it's just kind of like, what's the point? Did we just try to maybe in the rush for post pandemic just try to slap a mobile front end on an existing workflow and call it digital transformation without really looking at how do we optimize that process for the customer versus what's good maybe for the people who work in that company? I think a lot of organizations have definitely done that excuse me, and I think it's a it, you know, it depends on who you're dealing with.

Right? Like you said you do run into those where you think. Wow.

This is a this is a great experience now, and it does seem faster and better. From you know, there's there's better ways of doing that. There's other ones where there's a lot better ways of doing that process, you know to your point.

How many times do you need to tell them your family history? Right? So and You know and a lot of medical organizations were still asking my 95 year old mother about her family history, right?

And she said, you know, they're all dead. That's that's really a valid question anymore and they want to know she's pregnant too. Right?

And and so, you know, I do think that we're struggling in some areas. I think there's other companies that are really looking at this and you're starting to see them pull ahead. I think there were also ones that started the real process of looking at what their customers want and pretty pandemic and I'm finding that when I talk to those folks, they're farther ahead than the ones that were sort of caught off guard by the pandemic and had to throw a bunch of Automation in where they hadn't planned it out.

And so when those that did plan you have a lot smoother and seamless experience and one of the new things that I'm noticing post pandemic is that customers are much more likely to switch to your editor if they just aren't real happy with what you're doing. They're expecting you to be out of the pandemic have no supply chain issues right be there. They're quite demanding now because they had to sit back for three years, right?

They want you to have progressed and so every company is running into this. and those that are struggling to keep up with what their customers are demanding for a value perspective are actually seeing a lot of them leave and we see this in our quarterly reports as they come out right that there's a lot more to this and then just throwing a like you're saying a digitized front end and on the the system on a paper process and and like Teresa's talking about right having security be sort of a Table Stakes while you're rolling all these things out where you've got to make sure that that's a fundamental piece of all this if you're missing that, you know, I think more and more is if companies start. being hacked and losing our data people are going to switch to somebody that they trust a little bit more and if they feel is more secure with Theresa same question but put your analyst hat on is a lot of this got to do with the way that companies are just organized.

If I went back in time two decades. There was a CIO control most of the it spending and then we saw a push out to the Departments and the individual business units, but the business units aren't really focused on integration of a process their focused on optimizing something that they do within that business unit. So do we need to take a giant step back and find some sort of Middle Ground between the highly centralized it approach in this extraordinarily distributed approach that emerged over the years and or maybe your biggest issues is a failure to communicate across the business units.

Yeah. It's interesting that you bring that up. Because one of the things that we have talked about as an industry for many many years is this idea of cross-functional collaboration saying that the line of business has to really be ready and able and willing and spend time communicating with the traditional it organization that includes the operations team the application development team the security team the networking team and so on and where we are right now and I want to go back to something that you were talking about a little bit earlier and something Marine said is we're really poised on this new precipice of a new era of computing.

And so that's taking the form of we have digital transformation. And then the upper operate operate operationalizing those digital transformation aspects. And then focusing on this digital first experience.

So this digital first experience is really this new era of compute. So we're moving to this new Arrow compute. Based on we have more things connected to the internet and people so we're moving away from this input output traditional kind of Tethered to the tenant to a device traditional devices too where we're going to be living an experiential way of things with a lot of data.

So David driven, so we start to move to the edge in terms of edge Computing and when you think about the definition of edge, it's really in flux and it depends upon for the most part if the vendors selling you an edge Solutions edges going to lean to that Tech staff. If you are working on an edge project, it's going to lead to the text that you have. So if you think about the characteristics of edge as being software defined that can be on Prem or in the cloud also that your workloads your applications your hosting it's closer to where that data that is so incredibly powerful closer to where that data is being generated and consumed and then it's this distributed model of Management intelligence and networks.

So if we think of those characteristics what that says is we're now moving to an Era of computing that is data driven and it's really based on that experience. And so then with that says is the line of business starts suddenly starts to be more involved then some of the things that we're seeing in our research, I'm responsible for the AT&T cyber security insights report every year and what we're seeing is that two years ago in 2021. The line of business said, we realize that we need to move to the edge.

We realize we need to move to this new era of compute where it's not just kind of putting sort of some front end on paper processes. We realize we need to move to generate Better Business outcomes and to Lorraine's point that people want these experiences. If you're not providing it it's very easy to go to a competitor.

So where people are is they're saying you know, we want these new digital experiences and the line of business is saying we want to give these digital experiences to you. So that line of business is leading the effort. They're leading the charge to for Innovation.

This is something completely different than we've seen in the past with newer Technologies coming out. So the line of business is leading that charge but the line with business is saying yes, we want to be able to deliver Better Business outcomes, but we're not going to move forward with these new initiatives unless we are in lockstep with this cyber security team now, that's something completely new that the line of business is saying we want to work with our best friends over here the security team because oftentimes the line of business and the security team may be at odds where the security team is saying, you know, this is too risky in the line of business is saying but we need to do it. So we're starting to see the erosion of those silos that have been built up over the past.

40 50 plus years where we have the IT team. We have the line of business and within it we have the operations team and the development team and the security team the networking team and none of them are talking to each other. We're seeing this necessity now for this cross-functional communication and we're seeing this in the research that I do with the AT&T cyber security insights report that these silos are starting to erode because of these new digital first experiences that your customers are demanding and that the line of business is saying we need to do this for Better Business outcomes.

Look Larry, let's follow up on that from your perspective on the one hand. We're moving towards what Teresa says is this near real-time processing of data. And we're trying to do this with Cloud native applications microservices serverless Computing Frameworks and all kinds of new architectures and there's more things than I can shake a stick at and that's getting more complex and yet I feel like it is still moving faster than the business can absorb and this is a foot because for many decades the business always complained about how slow it was.

So is now the shoe on the other foot and how do we deal with all this complexity? Yeah, we are finding that interesting how that goes that really what the problem was when it was being told, you know, nothing ever gets done and you're too slow and when we go look at our customers, we find that and the ask for the business is about five to nine times what the it teams generally can get done quarter over quarter. So there's you know, so we're finding that there's there's this unrealistic Viewpoint right?

And now they're saying the business is moving too slow right things. They still want to fund, you know, those 900 projects and review each one before it gets put into a backlog and they're still not prioritized. Well, right and it's not prioritized across the business.

It's prioritized by each business leader. So I think you are seeing a lot of those and that's being you know, that prioritization and those pieces are being pushed back into the business side and there's more requirements being put on the business like the business does need to understand the security piece, right? That's not just technology related anymore.

That's a business and you know related piece that you need to understand how secure your new ask is needs to be And how does it affect things does is it under regulation? Is there something that's required and it has to pass a certain audit and you have to give the development teams and the IT teams time to be able to create all of that security in right or all of those regulatory monitoring pieces in so whether it's you know automation all the different things that are in it today that are so much more complex in some ways. That we ever had in the past when you know, you had massive QA teams pushing buttons all day long, right?

It's now all automated. So, how do you how do you get the business to understand all of those pieces and what that means to them? That doesn't mean everything runs faster the first time you create something new right?

You have to create all that automation. So all of those things that we've been working on for years that in some companies the business is still refused to even attempt to understand they're now being told you're not moving fast enough. You're not giving us what we need to be able to move more quickly and it's now time for you to change.

So we are seeing those agile principles and practices being brought up to that. You know above the program level into the portfolio and even the Strategic portfolio level in a lot of organizations and there's a lot of companies switching out that level to have somebody who does understand the technology and who does understand what it means to create a new ask and to how to prioritize that for the good of the business versus the good of an individual business segment. well, let's finish that thought and jump ahead on something here and go to Theresa, but um What is going to be the role of the it organization to help drive that we have seen, of course the emergence of cheap digital officers and a lot of those people interact with cios, but from your perspective.

How is the relationship changing and how should it change? So you Jesus sorry. Okay.

Yeah, so I just wanted to make a point about something Lorene was talking about so she mentioned the idea that you know, the the IT team is now moving faster than where the business was. Right. So and it's always been in the past the business completing about how slow it was.

But as we move to this new era of compute with Edge computing Everything we're doing is going to change. So I mentioned the erosion of those silos. But if you think about the applications that we need, they're no longer those GUI applications there machine to machine applications.

So they're non-guy their headless applications. They have to be able to take data do something with that data. You have to make sure that you have a secure data life cycle.

So we see everything changing and everything shifting. So the traditional ways of doing things the older ways of doing things with with development acting alone with with the operations team sort of acting alone waiting for development and kind of saying well, you know, we're gonna push things out, you know, even though we talk a whole lot about we've had a lot of automation we've had a lot of automation but we still have a lot of things that are still very much siled and very much manual. Um, we're moving to this idea of complete integration and what we're also seeing is that since security is so key to all of this.

Security is not a do-it-yourself type of project you often hear security described as a team sport, which means that everybody within that internal ecosystem that line of business that it team. They have to be working together as well. But what we found In our 2022 AT&T cyber security insights report research is that 65% of our survey participants and it was a global global survey of 1,520 participants.

We found 65% of them say that they are looking to a third party to help them with this digital transformation process with this movement to Edge Computing. And so that help can come in in the guys of the Global Systems integrator a consultancy that they might be using it might be bringing in some sort of managed Security Services managed Network Services and so on so they're looking for help and what we also found out is that investments in Security in particular because we know that the pandemic moves security from being a technical issue to being a business and Ava we know from our research that Investments in security are now starting at the beginning of a project. So in our 2022 research, we found that The Sweet Spot of security investment of an overall Edge Computing project.

So these are all new Computing projects. We found the security investment was somewhere between 11 and 20 percent and our 2023 report will be coming out on April 24th, and I'll kind of give a little bit of a preview here. We're finding more parody and investment across the board between security Planning Development and network.

So we're seeing far more parity. And so that is an indication that we're moving to this idea of digital first. And so the it organization is is evolving and changing.

So the it organization is not separate from the line of business. There's far more cross-functional work. And then if you look at things such as zero trust from a security perspective coming in people often look at zero trust They conflate zero trust with being a product.

Well, you know people think I can go to vendor a or vendor B and buy a zero trust product zero trust is a framework or a guideline that really helps your business and so in terms of leading with zero trust, it's really the line of business saying here's what we need to do. Here's how we need to really focus our business on looking at what we're going to do from the zero trust perspective. All right.

Well in my experience those business people will not their heads vigorously as if they understand what it people are talking about but it's pretty clear that they don't so my advice would be you know, there's don't underestimate the value of baby talk you can start out with we used to process data this way and today we process data this way and we're doing it for these business reasons and then they'll not their heads and at least they'll understand what the core thing is before that you start inundating them with all the buzzwords that we like to use in it that they kind of just smile at and go. Well, that's nice but I have no idea what you just said and I think you know you you brought up data. So I think we look at data data really from a digital first experience perspective moving to this idea of edge Computing data really has to be protected.

It has to be trusted. It has to be usable. So we we want to make sure that people are getting the data that they need that it is the trusted data and then it's Usable you don't want to just walk off data and say, you know, it's data.

You can't have it. Data is data is really the lifeblood of what we're going to be doing moving forward that data is so so critical. And what we're seeing is that some folks still.

Well, they say they need data. They don't understand how to build it in as a natural outcome of their processes. So they've got these disparate Team level tools right in it where they can't see what the heck's going on.

Right and they can't understand that. It doesn't roll up. The teams are all doing things very very differently.

Even that small amount of alignment that would be needed to get some of those Roll-Ups of data is not happening. So the data you're getting you're trying to mash it all together in some data Lake and make sense out of it and it's just not happening. It's not working.

Well, so there's you know, there's a real thing there to looking at your whole processes and your data that you need to run your business and making sure that that's an outcome that everybody in the organization is playing a part in you know, whether it's customer data or internal data. There's a lot of internal data if you're still having bi-weekly status meetings to tell what's going on in your organization. You're missing the point of all of this digitization, right?

You need to be using data and be looking it dashboards that aren't made out of spreadsheets and PowerPoints, right? That's a thing of the past the companies that are moving more quickly and making those just those data-driven trade-off decisions and doing it. Well are the ones that can see what's really going on in their organization.

I can't tell you the first time when I'm working with folks and they see how much technical debt they have and how shocking it is to them when you actually start showing the reality of the situation in their own business that they've been managing for, you know years. It's it's there's a lot of things there from that data perspective, you know, it's a lot easier to manage the customer data because it comes in consistently so stuff being created inside your organization that you need to take a look at as well. Let's follow up on that thought.

Do you think it's fair? Because you mentioned technical debt and business Executives will you know, they'll get up in the morning and they'll see something like chat GPT and they'll be like, you know, wow, this is amazing and then they'll look at their own organization and going, you know, I I don't feel I'm on the same level but the business side realize the extent to which the technical debt is. So huge and you know technical debt isn't going to go away.

It has to be managed but do people understand what that's all about, Marine. What do you think? but I would say no, I don't think the business side does understand it.

Right? I don't think they understand all that can go into it and the the impact it can mean to the slowness of your organization. And you know, Robert Martin wrote a book called clean agile that has a lot of information in there.

It's a fantastic book on. How many how much you know why when those companies where they're they keep throwing more engineers at the the technology to create the software faster. It's never getting faster because there's such spaghetti code in there.

Right? They don't know like no one knows when why it was created that way or what actually happened all those people are gone. And then you have more people coming in just trying to Band-Aid everything which has been happening for the last five to ten years and now you've got this huge mess on your hands.

I don't think most the business people even understand that could happen much less that it has happened in their own organization. And I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot of it leaders that don't understand the technical debt in their organization. I think there's a lot of people that call themselves technical that truly do not know the state of their own software and and digital products that they're creating.

Yeah, I think Lorraine brings up such a good point and I think that really leads us to this idea of a common language that we all have to coalesce around because for so many years. It has been speaking one language and it will talk about technical debt development teams. We'll talk about technical debt and then you go to the line of business and the line of business kind of as you said nons there and says, yes, yes, but do they really understand the impact of the business and that's one of the things I think that we really need to become better at I is this common language between line of business and the IT team which includes all of those things the operations team the network team the application development team the security team and so on.

So we need to have that common language. We need to focus on what the core business is what your core business competency is and understand how the systems you have in place. How what you're doing with your competing systems how That is actually impacting your core business.

Is it meaning that you are going to have you're going to take what for example if you're an airline does this mean that you're going it's going to take people longer to purchase a ticket on your website. Does this mean that it's going to take at the gate agents longer to board your playing? So what do all of these things really mean to the business outcome and I think that's really a direction that we need to go is to be able to really speak.

Efficiently between sort of both sides if you will of what business outcomes mean. Yeah, you're talking about the airline. Look what happened at the beginning of the year right one particular Airline.

Right had a huge breakdown in their infrastructure and software that they couldn't get Pilots where they needed to be. They couldn't get planes in the air dramatically affected them for quite a while quite a few days with thousands of their flights canceled. I mean that type of stuff that's generally, you know, it came up but they said it was Antiquated systems.

What does that mean? It means it's either really really old but probably has a lot of technical debt, right and nobody still left around that really knows how to fix that. That has real business a ramifications.

Most companies are lucky enough to not get to that level of public embarrassment. But you know, it does happen and it shows people there's other ones just right on that edge and one one false move right could send their whole Public public facing software over the edge. All right.

Well rumor has it that company is investing in heavily in devops now to go address that issue. So we'll see how that turns out Teresa. I want to ask you and my hopefully it's more than devops.

Hopefully, it's SEC devops because security is has to be at the core of everything that you're doing, right? It has to be security for customers. It has to be security for your company.

It has to be security with everything that you're doing. So and that's one of the that's one of the things right is for so long. We have had these isolated silos and we talk a little bit about this earlier, but now you're starting to see the new Portland to come out of SecOps or set Dev Ops whichever way you want to raise it, which means that developers are really going to have to focus on security and the security tools are going to have to be integrated with what's a development team is doing and there has to be more than just some sort of governance play from a security.

point of view it has to be that security is built in which is from our research what we're seeing is that security is being Being budgeted now, we have to change those those practices the way people actually are thinking and doing things. So I this whole idea of digital transformation is definitely evolutionary. It's not something that you say.

Oh I did ABC and now I'm digitally transformed. It's it's this ongoing Evolution and you know, Marine was talking about some of the tools that people might be using or maybe lack of tools we're using but this is one of those evolutionary things where we're going to see newer types of products come out to help us be better at some of these things. We're going to see new tools from a development perspective new tools from operations perspectives to help us to help us do things better.

All right, we have any question from the audience, but just to finish out on your point seems to me at least one of the issues with technical debt is no one ever calculates the security debt that should be part of the technical debt. So the technical probably much bigger than you think. The ring our question from the audience is um, we've seen all these Technologies we're talking about so does there really need to be a digital evangelist inside every organization?

And you know, since you have that role, you know, what does it take to kind of create it and how do people interact with that? And how do you do your job essentially? I think it even goes beyond one person right?

I think there's that everybody needs. I mean exactly what Terese is talking about. You need to have everybody in the room talking about their part in whatever you're trying to innovate on so that everyone can understand everyone else's perspective.

Like we used to have to do this in the early days. Gosh, you know 30 years ago with developers and QA and Tech pubs at the time, right and all of those folks to get them to understand each other's point of view and what it took to get that job done. You know, you can't wait till the end and throw a big software project over to QA and Tech hubs because they can get anything done and out the door on time, right?

It was the same thing. It's the same thing now only it's a lot bigger table Stakes right when you when you leave security out of the conversation and you don't understand the ramifications of doing so Right, that's a huge risk to your entire organization and you're and you know, and it could cause fines if you're going against some of the things you're audited on right or your regulations that you need to abide by and I think having all of those people in a room talking about how they're viewing some new piece of work is really important. So it's it's getting those cross-functional teams to actually be real teams and have them all working together to the betterment of the product and something we've started talking about lately with a lot of folks.

I'm incenting them all in the same way, right? I was working with one organization who was incenting their ciso. to keep them secure and so the Cesar just didn't let anything out the door because then he guaranteed they were still secure and it was like, well, that's not you know, then you might as well let them go and just pay an intern to tell everybody.

No, right. That's not that's not value right there. They should be incentive on getting software out the door within the right window of opportunity in quality and security right and secure same thing with everybody else working on the product, right?

There's these don't incent people against each other, right? There's still companies and sending business to hit a to get things out to Market and your your it teams on quality, right? That's That somebody loses there right don't make your company lose your customers lose because they'll go somewhere else, right?

It needs to be secure. It needs to have high quality. It needs to have the right functionality.

It needs to be Innovative and make people happy to use it. Right all of those things need to be planned up front. And nobody should be incentive to win one of those over anything else.

Teresa follow up on that because business Executives deal with risk all the time and they think about you know, what are the odds that something's going to happen and the security people, you know, are they able to have that conversation these days versus the days when they were, you know the office of no and everybody just basically ignore them, right? Yeah, the security team is no longer the office of no and tutoring's point. You can't just have a CSO saying no to everything because then everything's safe because you're not letting anything in you're not letting anything out.

The security team is really now looking at managing risks. So helping working with that line of business to understand. What risk is you want to have a resilient business?

So in the face of some event you want to make sure that your business can respond and we all saw what happened during the pandemic and so this idea of resiliency became quite popular and so from a security perspective you have to make sure that you're able to safeguard your digital assets. So and everybody has different digital assets that they find worthwhile to safeguard. So it may be some intellectual property that you need to secure.

It may be some new blueprint for a factory that you're building and so on so you have to be able to safeguard those digital assets. You also have to be able to act with confidence in the face of some security event. So if there is a security event in your organization, it can't bring your whole company down you have to continue with businesses usual and make sure your operations come withstand what's going on.

So safeguarding your digital assets making sure that you can act with confidence when you do have that security event. And then what you also want to do is you want to make sure that you're driving efficiency into the security budget that you have because if you take a look at the security World, there are so many things you can do from a security perspective you have to do what's for your organization and that comes to the line of business and that cross functional work with not just the security team. But the IT team the networking team the operations team making sure that you're able to drive that operational efficiency into the money that you are going to spend for security.

So and and again, you know, I think the beginning of your question was around this new perceived role of maybe a digital evangelist if you will. and you know, we always read that so many jobs of the 21st century have not yet been defined and if you think back to 50 years ago when we were still on mainframes, nobody would have said oh there's going to be this big industry built up around security because in the days of the Mainframe the biggest security risk you had with somebody coming into the data center spilling coffee on a keyboard, but the moment we started to democratize Computing and bring compute out of that data center and on to our desktops and into the Departments and into the cloud and mobile and web AppSec and now moving to the edge the more democratized we come Become from a Computing perspective the more we have to worry about making sure that we are protecting securing and managing the risk of where those applications are AppSec or applets are actually residing. All right.

So last question here guys, um are people pulling in their horns on a couple of initiatives here and there because it is too complex. It is too broad and we tried to do too many things in boil the ocean. So Laureen, are you seeing organizations kind of focus their efforts more in the special in these uncertain Economic Times?

Um in slightly different ways. So what I'm seeing is that they're starting to bring up the planning of this at a really high level in the organization to look at what do we need to do? Where are we now and where do we need to go and planning out that sort of end-to-end viewpoint of how do we get to a point where data flows through the organization right?

How do we get to a point where we know what's really going on internally as well as with our customers and so they're looking at a broader scope. They're no longer saying I'm going to give it, you know, 20 million dollars to go automate something and I'm going to give the business money to create their business systems, and I'm get right it's looking at the whole thing. how do we tile of this together so we know we make sure everything that we're you know, everything that we're creating is a strategy flows through to customer value and we can measure that and go back right bring the data back through so it's it's a different Viewpoint and then I think they are realizing from past mistakes How big of a transformation it really is and it does include a lot of areas in the company.

So to Teresa's points that she's been making right the data the people how do you bring them better together so that you're defining a system not that supports the the security office and then supports it and support the different areas in it and other folks like that. It's more of the you know, how do we do this end to end to make a lot of sense within our organization so we can have that visibility and transparency that we need to know what's happening within our walls as well as outside our walls and the monitoring that we need. So it's On the one hand, they're looking at even bigger projects at the top tier and then figuring out how to implement that across the board.

All right, Theresa closing thoughts for the last two minutes. Yeah, so everything that Lorraine said completely agree with it's about building out this new business model making sure that your organization culturally can withstand this collaboration communication inside the organization making sure that you're building out this resilient business making sure that you're moving to this idea of operational excellence and then building to a digital first experience and first and foremost making sure that your customers and your employees have really strong digital experiences. So this is evolutionary.

We're seeing this move to New compute types. It's evolutionary cultural changes has to take place and it's a journey. It's not a destination.

So we'll be constantly improving on this. All right folks. Hey, thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights.

This was great. I think the takeaway. Is there One Way Or Another We're All digitally transforming.

The only thing that remains to be seen is how much pain will be experience still on the way. Guys, thanks for the time. Thank you.

Thanks so much.