From AI Pilots to Production: Healthcare and Manufacturing at the Edge | Utilizing AI Ep. 15

AI advertising is here with advertisements for AI about ai, and using AI taking center stage during an otherwise lackluster football game. Anthropic went after open ai, which reportedly plans to incorporate advertisements into chat, GPT and AI assisted video was everywhere. We expect that generative AI will lead to mass customization of advertising with ads being more integrated and personalized than ever before.

That's the topic as we take up this episode of utilizing ai. Welcome to utilizing ai, the podcast focused on practical applications of artificial intelligence from the Futurum Group. Every Wednesday, we explore news and use cases of the ways in which AI is transforming enterprise IT and the industries it serves.

I'm your host, Stephen Foskett, president of Tech Field Day Business Unit here at the Futurum Group. Before we dive into this discussion, let's meet who's on the panel with me today. Hey, I'm John Swartz on the West Coast Bureau Chief for Techstrong.

I write about ai it occasionally a security boulevard. That's where you can find most of my work. Thanks for having me.

I'm Frederick Van Herrin, the founder and CTO of ens, and we provide HPC and AI Consulting Services. Well, thanks for joining us today, both of you. Um, as we are recording this, uh, it is just a few days after the, uh, let's call it the big game at risk of losing any, uh, trademark or, uh, lawsuits, you know, the, the, the, the litigious NFL here.

Um, and of course, uh, a lot of the buzz was about the ads during the, the, the, the, the big game, which included, of course, lots of ads for about and with ai. And I think that that maybe leads us into an interesting corner here. Uh, we saw, uh, those of us in the industry, I think were perhaps best prepared to see Anthropic going after open AI with an ad that focuses on open AI's, um, forthcoming, let's say, uh, in chat GPT advertisements.

And of course, they went after it with a, um, an ad that, uh, that would focus on that. I, I found, honestly, that that ad was a little bit challenging. Um, the people that I was watching the game with, in fact looked at me and said, what was that an ad for?

I don't understand that, because I think most people are so jaded already with the internet and advertising that they just assumed that ads were everywhere in chatbots, even if maybe they aren't. Uh, John, let's start with you. Uh, what was your impression of, uh, going after Open AI during the, uh, Uh, advertising?

So in the spirit of Super Bowls, we saw Apple go after IBM with the Big Brother a 42 years ago. And I think this was the same idea, is to, to poke fun at your, your biggest rival, but it's a little bit ironic, don't you think? Uh, Stephen and Frederick, that anthropic, which was criticizing open AI for pivoting hard to advertising was advertising.

And in fact, I think the, uh, the, the, the woman who's generated in the anthropic gad was AI generated, or that was the idea at least. Um, it was a kind of an inside attack because most people, honestly, in the greater viewing world, don't really know the history between these two companies. Um, I think the idea is that OpenAI said it would never advertise, and yet it it did during the game.

There's even a debate. They had a very vanilla ad in the game or before the game. Excuse me.

They, they were, there was, there was a rumor that OpenAI was gonna run an ad during the game. That may have given us a hint at what Johnny Ive was working on. That's a wild rumor.

But nonetheless, it, it's interesting. I mean, I, I think what it did with Tropic did was they brought attention to this idea that both that o OpenAI will be advertising quite a bit, and that we should fear and distrust it. Um, I'm not sure how effective their ad was.

It was humorous. It was a little bit scathing. I think what helped that Adver advertisement more than anything was Sam Altman's reaction to it.

He saw the ad before it aired on the Super Bowl, and he went on a 450 word screed about it, in which he attacked it, which in, in a sense, he gave it more oxygen and, and publicized it. So I think we're gonna see a lot more. I mean, you can mention, I think, Steven, you mentioned a couple of ads that you found very spooky that were in the game, that were obviously AI generated.

But I think it's something that is gonna become much more common. And I can talk about, we can talk about later, like some i ideas of what they might do, some things I've been seeing on reels that I think are gonna be, become AI generated, uh, super Bowl I type of, of, uh, themes. But, uh, it opened the floodgates and we're gonna see a lot more of this during big events like the Oscars, the, the Grammys, what, what have you, big events.

Yeah, I think from an advertisement perspective, I mean, this is the, the biggest stage, right? You can have. So if you, if your intention is to make a point from an advertisement perspective, then that's probably the place to be.

And I think John, I think the, the adver, the, the advertisement from Tropic really is kind of based on the, the, the rivalry between Open AI and Tropic and their different approaches, not just the advertisement, um, charge that, that OpenAI will pursue. But I, I, I do see two things right from, from these, these advertisements. The first one is, is the, um, the fact that Open AI and Tropic are really competitors and that they really wanted to make a point.

And then the second piece is, is to use AI in advertisement. I mean it, at, at what point is the, is the game gonna be completely AI generated as opposed to having people on the field? So I think it's, it's important, um, to see and make a distinction between the two, right?

If actors will also not be replaced by ai, right? Do we need, do we need actors playing, um, roles in advertisement, or will that be completely, uh, done by AI anyways? I think it's, I think it was, it was funny to see, uh, at the biggest stage what companies are doing and what they're capable of doing from a technology perspective.

Well, yeah, I was gonna mention really quickly Frederick that. Um, yes. So the history is the, these are key intense rivals, and they, the, the, the idea is one represents some i one idea of ai.

The other represents an entirely different one. It's based on your interpretation. But I think as you, as you were mentioning going forward, I think you're gonna see AI replacing officials.

So AI will be able to use the eagle eye. They'll be able to interpret plays in the future. And I also, when I was mentioning earlier, the whole idea of advertisements, you know, you start seeing all these kind of retro, uh, videos on reels and, and TikTok where you see these, these, these actors, they've been de aged and they're, they set up these fictitious meetings between Jimi Hendrix and Bob Dylan and M**k Jagger when they're in their twenties.

And it's just this complete fantasy. And you're gonna probably see the same type of thing in advertisements with celebrities, with the celebrities signing off on it, where they are represented by their younger selves, maybe with their voices. You're gonna see this whole kind of fantasy world where you're not sure what's real and what isn't.

And, uh, we'll know it's not real, but it's gonna be really hard to tell just by the naked eye. And I think that we're already at the point where, uh, a lot of these AI video generators can generate really, um, let's say, realistic looking video. But I think there's still a bit of a caviness factor to it from, uh, folks who object to eliminating, uh, the traditional artistic talent that's used in producing, uh, video, especially, uh, advertisements to the sort of unreal nature of the thing.

Um, I know that there was some, uh, pushback on, uh, one of the ads for, uh, being a bit gross as a, uh, an Android drinks, uh, red liquid, and it spills down the front of the thing. I mean, it's, it's just like, uh, did nobody look at that and say, yeah, that's not a good message for my, my company. Um, and, and I think that that's sort of a natural result of the haphazard use of these AI video generators.

Apparently. Um, I didn't see it because I'm not in the market, but apparently a, um, one company that is trying to specifically build a platform to generate AI generated advertisements advertised during the game for their platform, and boasted that they were able to put together an AI ad for their AI ad service in a couple of days. Um, and, and my question on hearing about that was, is that a good thing?

Do I want to just dash off a Super Bowl ad in a couple of days? Or should maybe we be thinking about this, uh, Frederick? Yeah, I, I think, I mean, if you look at advertisement, the goal of advertisement is to target a certain audience and, and to make a point, right?

And so the, the issue with advertisements today is that you have to prerecord them, right? So you, although you're using ai, you're kind of trying to guess on what your audience is gonna be. If I had to predict a little bit, I would say that in the future, it's more gonna be a time to market where advertisements can change on the spot where, where it's not free can, but it's basically targeted on what's happening, maybe something that happened on the field, if it's a sports event, and use that in an advertisement.

So I do think that ai, using ai, so to speak, uh, in a real time fashion, which should be really interesting to, to advertisers, because you can really narrow down to your target audience with real life, uh, events. You know, one thing we mentioned, uh, is OpenAI. With soa, there's an agreement with Disney, right?

So, so we careful all these possibilities of all these Disney characters being used in, in, perhaps even in advertisements. And I think our producer Corey just mentioned that James Earl Jones already sold his voice to Disney for Garth Vader. So we could see that being used.

Um, and it's interesting, Frederick, that that the concept you said about how the ads could be changed and tweaked by the, by the second based on, uh, what, what they're saying. And again, you know, you're, I think the cost was $10 million for 30 seconds, something like that, something outrageous. But this, this ability to, to change your advertisements on the, on the, on the run, uh, would create, uh, all sorts of flexibility in terms of advertising, in terms of the markets, and would be almost interesting to see variations of the same ad for, for different demographics, right?

Rather than one ad for everyone. We would see 10 variations of that ad, not necessarily maybe one major version for the Super Bowl, and then nine other versions that find their way onto YouTube or what, what have you. Um, I mean, it gives a certain, it gives an incredible flexibility to the advertisers.

And, um, they also, I think it save a hell of a lot of money not spending on production values or on the, or gaining the rights or gaining the, the, the celebrity's time. You can just recreate the celebrity with them signing off. Yeah.

And, uh, on the point of, of the cost, I think it's worth mentioning too, that it depends on the market that the ad is presented to. Um, I heard about, um, 4 0 4 media, uh, they managed to run a Super Bowl ad, uh, for $2,550. And how they did it was they selected the smallest media market in America and targeted their ad only there, uh, just so that they could say, Hey, we ran a Super Bowl ad, which is kind of funny, you know?

Um, but to your point, John, uh, I, I, you know, that makes me think about this whole concept of, um, you know, uh, tiered pricing and, uh, mass customization and this trend that we've seen for a long time in, um, advertising especially that, um, and I think a lot of people see through this. But, you know, you, you go to the, to the, to the website and it says, you know, do you want us to personalize your ads, personalize your ad experience, whether that's at Google or at Amazon or Apple or pretty much any other, um, advertising focused website. And the idea would be that if you share your personal data with us, we will give you more relevant and interesting advertisements, which sounds great as long as it is.

But honestly, I think a lot of us understand that what we're really doing is just giving up our personal data and, and that's that. But I, I could see a situation where generative, um, you know, generative AI could actually live up to that. It could create custom ads, it could create ads that would appeal to Frederick, particularly not to Frederick and John and me in a way that, well, I I'm wondering there would be probably a, a, a backlash.

Frederick, what do you think? Do you want to see, um, I don't know, ads for cars that say, you know, Frederick, we know that you currently have this car and we think that you'd like this other one. Does that sound like a good time to you?

Well, well, I think natively when, when we want something, we wanna target it for us, right? I might be more interested in sedans while John might be interested in pickup trucks, right? So the, so obviously we would like to have the answer to be more appropriate, but I think that's the holy grail of AI is where the three of us could ask the exact same question, but we could get three different answers based on, on our information.

Um, and, and to your point about data sharing, I mean, I think, aren't we past the fact that we should give permission to access our data? Isn't that already happening today? No matter what you do, I mean, ev every time you use the system, you're, you're kind of giving up your data.

But I think if we, if we look at what chatbots will do for us, which is personalized, you, you can draw the line to advertisements where the advertisements, if you like, advertisements, is at least to get some advertisements that are targeted to you. And, and I see a future where in the, where a Super Bowl ads might not be the same to everybody, right? Maybe the advertisement that is being played to the team that's on the field winning or losing might get a, a, a different kind of advertisement that is more interesting to them than something something else.

So I definitely think that the holy grail of personalized results of answers, um, is, is really what we want, right? We want something that fits the, the, the context, not something that, that is interesting to somebody else's context. Yeah, let me, let me hop in on that one.

Frederick, that's actually a really good point because it, it's technically feasible to do what you're describing simply because most people are now watching, um, sporting events, not on conventional broadcast systems, but on, um, ip, you know, over the top IP based, uh, video systems. Um, you know, I mean, I watched on the Peacock app, um, I think probably a lot of people did. And I think that that is likely to enable that kind of customization in a way that would be very surprising to people, right?

I mean, it start with something very simple where, where the the speaker is, uh, uses the accent of the region where you're trying to target, right? Yeah. You know, in a sense, we're already doing this, right?

If, uh, when I watch YouTube based on what I watch, if it's a music video or what have you, or a news program, I'm, I'm offered, um, similar types of programming or clips on the right side of my screen, uh, the same applies I guess with the algorithm on, on any type of social media like-minded comments will populate where, where I'm looking in my newsfeed, for me at least. And I, I actually think we're used to this idea we're we're open to the idea, and I'm actually would like to customize that. I buy a lot of books on, uh, thrift books or use Amazon, it suggests to me what I'm doing.

So we're already conditioned for this. So if you're watching on your streaming device, you might get a very highly tailored advertisement, and I think most people would probably be open to it. But the one, you know, the one thing I wanna ask you just, it makes me think about our reaction to some of these generated AI generated ads is that it's, it's interesting, I think we embrace it as kind of a novelty, but I wonder if, if we're inundated with these type of things, it reminds us of the influence AI has on us, or if there's even a sense of a backlash to this kind of forced fiction that we're watching.

Um, sometimes I don't even know what to believe when I see online, because especially on X, there are so many fake posts, um, especially very, very persuasive posts using video, using photo, using images. Um, and I'm just wondering if inevitably we overuse ai whether it creates this backlash or resentment among the viewing audience, Right? I mean, I think that on the topic of fake, I mean, even if we have conversations with individuals, I mean, there's always the risk that the information being provided by humans is, is not really totally correct.

Um, I, I think on the, the, the interesting point about AI is AI definitely can do something based on our, the context and the data we provide in the past. Um, there is a second, uh, there's a second site to which, which is, it can try to predict what you think you're going to need, which might not necessarily be fully based on what you have done in the past, but maybe what other people have been doing. So it, it reminds me a little bit, I mean, many, many years ago when there was this, this, this conversation where CVS was sending coupons for, for diapers or whatever it was to people that didn't realize they were pregnant, right?

Yeah. It's, that's, that's kind of the, the, the, the interesting side of it where it's not just based on what you know, but it's also based on what you dunno. Well, and on that, on that point, back to the Super Bowl ads, um, one of the ones that actually got, um, I heard positive feedback on was the Google, uh, Gemini ad where it showed a, uh, family moving to a new house, and it showed them using Gemini to show what their, um, you know, what they could do with the house and how they could decorate it, how they could make it feel like a home.

It really was a feel good ad, but just think about the implication of that. Gemini could certainly have been saying, you should buy new appliances from this particular company, or Wouldn't it be amazing if you used this paint color that you can only get from Sherwin Williams? Or, you know, you know, wouldn't it be incredible if you, uh, you know, and, and already, I think, and, and to my point at the top of the show, the people that were watching the, um, the Anthropic ad with the, the weightlifter that pitches, um, I don't know, I think it was like lifts for your shoes or something.

Their, their feedback after that ad, I kid you not like, looked at me and they were like, because I was like, oh, you know, what did you all think of that ad? 'cause I knew it was coming. You know, you know, what do you think of it?

You know, tropics going after, you know, chat GPT for having ads, and their, their reaction was that Uni universal what? Like, of course AI is going to pitch ridiculous things at me that I don't want, because I assume that that's already happening. They completely missed that.

They just are already, they're already living in this world that we're describing where AI is, is pitching things at you and trying to make you buy things. Um, I don't think we quite live there yet. 'cause I don't think that that is yet built into these chatbots unless I'm wrong.

Um, but I do think it's coming. Can I, can I, so so Corey mentions, there's, there's already a backlash with, uh, the creative and animation crowd against ai. They're moving into other areas and they're, they're striking, they're, they're signing petitions about this.

And my fear is like we, we talk about AI slop in terms of content, maybe written content or some video content. And I, I wonder if you're almost fast tracking the belief that a lot of these advertisements or communications or selling of marketing of things is considered AI slop, and that's counterproductive. And we want more of a human touch.

Like for instance, I'll mention during the Super Bowl there was the Budweiser ad, and which was, I thought, a terrific ad about the, uh, Clydesdale in a sense helping raise this eagle. And it, it was just heartwarming. It was something, it was original, it was, uh, it had a very human humanistic touch.

And I don't think AI is capable of doing that yet. And I, I wonder, I wonder if people, um, will start seeing the difference between that, like they would see the difference between AI generated text and an original story. Um, I always fear this is gonna happen, and I think it's gonna happen a lot faster than we, we think, given the animus that the general public has and the fear they have of ai, especially those who never use it or don't understand what he can do.

And it can do a lot of great things, but there are a lot of people who still are on the camp that they absolutely won't consider it, and they can, they won't consider using it, and they also consider it a threat. It's also, it, it's, it's more a generational problem, right? I mean, me, I would like to see life existing people advertise for something, um, while the more the, the, the younger generation has absolutely no problem with AI generated content.

They don't need, they don't need to feel or, or recognize a particular individual. Um, and, and I think from that perspective, you can see the, the advertisers kind of debating how much AI can it be fully ai, and, and also probably who, who, whose audience you're targeting. But, but, um, you know, even I, I, I, when I watch advertisement, I really stop caring too much.

If it's, if it's a, if it's a life person or not, my gut feeling is I would prefer a life person. But it's, it's a matter of acceptance. And I think in the future, because advertisements will become more and more real time, you know, as opposed to can't as a result of this, I think AI is the only way to do this in seconds or milliseconds versus recording a, an advertisements, which might take days or weeks.

I, I don't know how long it takes takes, but I'm pretty sure it's, it's more than seconds. Well, yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. And, and, and I think that that was another one of the, uh, uh, there was a sort of build your own ad that featured clips of stars and everything.

Um, apparently that was a massive undertaking with, you know, video crews and, um, you know, tons of staff and everything. It was, it was a huge deal to, to create that. Whereas what you're describing is, is a completely different world.

Um, you know, far be it for me to speak for another person, let alone another generation. But, um, again, the Gen Zs in my midst, uh, when we were watching this, um, you know, I don't think that they're more accepting of, um, of AI generated video and content so much as they're just jaded about it. I think that they, it, it, you know, they grew up, they've grown up in a world of attention based, influencer based, um, you know, advertising everywhere.

And, you know, the, the, what I'm hearing is that they're more sort of just, you know, kind of thrown up their hands and accepting of the fact that everything is fake and everything is ads and everything is targeted. And Yet what I hear from them as well is that they place a huge amount of value into real people and real experiences and real things. You know, my, um, you know, my daughter is, is she loves to do things like sewing and cooking that you would think were, um, you know, uh, passe in this world of fast fashion and delivery food.

Um, but it's not about, um, you know, gratification or even quality. It's so much as it is about just kind of a search for something real. And I wonder if this, um, you know, AI generated, uh, advertising infested world that we're describing will actually be, uh, face a backlash, or maybe not even a backlash.

Maybe just we might see, uh, greater value placed on real people doing real things as opposed to generative ai. So my daughter sounds like your daughter, Steven, my daughter cooks a lot. She likes hand.

She, she likes real realism, she likes reading books, she likes, uh, uh, creating crafts. And, and I wonder, I wonder if there's a point where not just advertising, but we actually conceivably would see halftime entertainment, the Super Bowl halftime show would have some sort of AI generation, um, maybe in the sets or maybe the performers, because we already see people who are willing to pay to see a hologram of Prince or Abba or Freddie Mercury perform alongside real people. Um, I think maybe, maybe is there a backlash?

Maybe there's indifference or maybe people just tune it out because they become so, so battered that they, they, they don't, they become numb to the whole situation. I just, I really do hope that we, we, if we do see AI use, it's not over the top and it's not a sledgehammer approach. And I, I almost, in a weird way, think that open ai, which kind of fancies itself as being a latter day Apple, in some cases, tries to do that with their advertising.

I know it sounds weird, but I, I actually do think with this, when this device comes out, they're gonna, they're gonna advertise it, but I think that they're gonna try to humanize it as much as possible to, to, to appeal to the older crowd as well as the younger crowd. I mean, to a certain degree, it all comes down to presentation, right? So you use the example of cooking and sewing in the end.

You, you wanna learn something that's the content. And if, if the content is being done by an automated or an AI generated person, or, or you in person to a certain degree, I feel like the, the focus is on the content, not on the, the presentation by an individual. But you know, it, it's so fascinating.

It's sometimes it's very difficult to figure out what's real and what's not real, right? Was bad Bunnies presentation, was that real, or was that ai, right? Um, anyways, I mean, that's, it's more like a rhetorical question, but I I wasn't sure.

I mean, there were, there were certain elements of it, like, this can't be real. I mean, it was such an elaborate, lavish design. I mean, it looked like a movie set.

And I'm sure we're gonna find out later that parts of it may have been generated that way. I mean, it was almost like a magic act. I thought it was fascinating.

I mean, I liked the music, but I, I was, I, I thought it was such an incredible presentation, um, that I think you're gonna see larger scale versions of that same type of halftime show by him, by, by others in the future. Um, cast to thousands, may, whether they're there or not, maybe it's a totally different experience for the people who were actually at, at the Super Bowl. So, uh, uh, full disclosure, I went to a Super Bowl years ago, and the halftime show was pretty straightforward.

It was a, it was a lousy show. It was Maroon five, it was in Atlanta. But comparing that to what we saw a couple of days ago, as we tape this, as we record this, it was another world.

And I think we are gonna have these mind blowing presentations and halftime shows in the future. Yeah. Yeah.

It, it, it is, uh, an interesting thing to think about. And, and maybe if I can sort of sum up this conversation, um, on that point, John, you know, one of the things that struck me about this was that, that halftime show was not a halftime show. It was produced not for the people in the stadium.

It was very much produced for the people who are watching at home. All halftime shows have been that way, but I think that nobody had yet said, you know what, forget that, forget the people in the stadium. They're not the audience.

And so they included things that were obviously recorded at other times and places, and cut them in. You know, there was, uh, you know, the, the, the first person camera work and so on made you, made you realize that most of the people in the stadium probably couldn't even see what was going on the whole time unless they watched the screens too. And, you know, that's sort of, I guess, what we're talking about here.

Uh, you know, if we take a step back, that also is this sort of, uh, turn toward mass customization, toward personalization, towards small screens, toward, you know, over the top video toward everything that's happening right now in the industry. And, um, I think that that's something that we're gonna be continuing to look at here as we continue, uh, with our weekly, uh, utilizing AI series to see how AI is transforming really, really all of the world. So, uh, we do have to, uh, to, to run.

Now. Um, before we go, I wanna give you all a chance, um, uh, John Frederick, uh, tell us where can we continue this conversation with you? So, as I mentioned earlier, I'm on Textron Ai, AI a lot.

I, I use LinkedIn quite a bit. Um, I use basically those two areas. Um, again, it's tech strong group.

Um, if you go to the website, there's a techno tech strong AI section. So I write mainly for that, but I write to the other sections as well. Yeah, So you can find me on LinkedIn and on our website com.

And of course, you'll also find, uh, Frederick and I on, uh, eight seasons of, uh, utilizing tech, uh, prior to this, uh, new, uh, podcast with a very similar name. Uh, so Frederick, thank you so much for collaborating in the past and, and, and in an ongoing basis. Also, we are working on our AI field day event planning.

Uh, that's gonna be coming up soon. So check out tech field day com to learn more about that. Thank you for listening to utilizing AI today.

If you enjoyed this discussion, please do subscribe in your favorite podcast application and consider giving us a rating and a review. And also, please do reach out to, to me, to John, to Frederick and the rest of the crew. We would love to hear from you.

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Thanks for listening, and we will catch you next week.