Benoit Jeanson, RTE & Jonas Van Den Bogaard, Alliander | Open Source Summit Europe 2022

This is texturing TV. Alright guys, welcome back to the open source summit. We're here in Dublin and we're talking with Jonas Van de Bogart from alianda and Benoit Jenson from RTE.

They are both specialists in the energy sector and we're just going to get started with a simple question, which is Jonas. Why do we need a specific group of folks who are squarely thinking about open source and Linux and the energy sector you guys are starting to work together. What are you trying to accomplish?

Thank you for having us say today. So we were in today's world that's changing a lot. So the way we live travel and work won't be the same in the next 10 years.

And we see a huge change in the way how we use energy generate energy and distribute energy. And those changes are happening so quickly that it's requires huge investments in digitalization, especially in energy sector. And we honestly personally but also from when I end up perspective believe that the only can handle those changes by collaborating with other parties within the sector and outside the sector.

And that has been one of the reasons for us to join Elevate energy to really bring together the group of organizations and people working on digital Innovations in in the energy domain and open source can really be an enabler to bring these Innovations to a rapid speed. Benign, where's that line between what you would call proprietary value that you guys might do versus what might be on differentiated value that you would share with everybody. And how do you guys navigate that or figure out where that line may be or is there no line because you're all in this together.

yeah, so the line between the what that I did value of sharing the code is actually as the Jonas was saying so we have a huge wall of investment that we are need to do for coding for changing the toward the more digitization of the of the grid and so Jonas is working in the description distribution system of Trader. I'm working in transmission system operator. So both we're dealing with agreed that we have different businesses, but we can share a lot of our the elections are exactly the same.

So we are sharing the same equation. Where also operating a network. So there we have a lot in common, even if our challenges are not always the thing.

So that's important for us to be able to to share the code to be more efficient and regarding a proprietary to get back to your question Preparatory software. What is interesting with open sources that we are also master of what is inside and so it's easier for us to we are taking real critical decisions based on this software and having white boxes are more important for us than just Reliant something that we we cannot understand because we don't have the key within it and more of our more. Moreover we're around the planet.

A lot of people are doing the same thing and that's a real opportunity for us to share to share the methodology to share also the research and to have everything in common something that we cannot do with proprietary Solutions. So what does it mean to digitize the grid and when you say that phrase what exactly are you guys thinking about? Because you guys have been operating networks for a long time.

It's not like your brand new to computers. So we already have some level of digitalization. So where are we now and what are you trying to get to?

Now one of the challenges we have is that especially nellons we have one of the most reliable rates in the world. But you see that the demand for electricity is growing so fast at this moment that is literally driving the grid to its limits. And that requires new smart Solutions.

An example to to give is we need the capability to steer supply and demand in periods when the maximum grid capacities reach I think for example of a certain day and I can be too much demand through solar energy. But other side on the winter day, where is nearly no sir? No wind that can be too much demand.

So we need new digital Solutions and capabilities to steer those demands in periods when the maximum grid is is reached. And we believe in realizing those new digital capabilities open source can play Vital world. Right finite.

Are we over our skis a little bit maybe that's a US term but it seems to me we're seeing some mandates from people where they're saying, we're gonna have electric cars by 2035 and the state of California. The Grid in the state of California probably is never going to be able to support everybody plugging in their cars and 20 by 2020 36 or whatever year. It may be so, you know our aspirations kind of out of line with our capabilities at the moment and we're kind of racing to catch up.

Yeah sure electric vehicle is one of the of the trigger of the energy transition. So one of the mean of the energy transition and that's something that we need to be able to to manage and that's something new for us. So we need to be able to to host the where we plug the vehicle.

We need also to be able to to manage the load and to have mechanism. Mechanism are also the technical mechanism to be able to charge the electrical vehicle at the right time. And that's also with the central ends with the Renewables.

So now you have green green power and green power wind power and and solar that are not working at the right time in the day. So we need to be more smart and that's at both levels. Yes.

So, yes, so that kind of be at the market level and that can be locally. So everything need to be changed and digitization the way that we're exchanging the actual state of the of the system is very important to make the right decision to and to have a adequate use of these new levers that we have for example with the electric vehicle because that's also an opportunity for us. That's a flexibility that we can use to to meet the challenge that we are facing.

Because collectively you need more observability at the end of the day, but then you need to be able to actually take action on whatever that you're observing. Right? Exactly.

So that seems like there's a lot of software that goes into that issue too. So it's a that's you know, not just the white boxes. So what do you guys thinking about for that whole stack of layer of software that would be developed to drive all of this because it's monitoring at a level.

That's probably not been seen before no, it's requires multiple new Solutions and capabilities and already be host 18 projects within the Linux Foundation energy and those go from the application domain food The Edge domain to give you one example of one of the applications we both are collaborating on is open staff and that's an project that is focus on making forecasts in the load on electricity great for the next hour two days. And why is it essential I've already been war was mentioning is and both solar and wind are very unpredictable. But have a huge impact on the load on the grid.

So we need to have this type of solution to give us Insight in what the load of on the grid will be for the next. 24 to 84 hours so that we can understand when the maximum grid is is reached and also have time to take action when necessary Benoit. There's been some activity on the other side of the continent and you know involves security and people are gonna You're talking about the war.

I am talking about the war. Um, how are we going to address the security issues around? Critical infrastructure of which the grid is probably the at the core of it and you guys are probably targets and you're probably getting attacked every day by somebody trying to do something that in your system.

So is there going to be a challenge around the cybersecurity aspects of all of this of course, but that's not a new challenge for us. That's something that we took into account for years already and that's so nobody's safe. But but we took already a lot of measures and all our systems are high isolated.

So it I very difficult for hacker to get into our systems. That's not a challenge that I am not throwing. Yeah right now.

Yeah, but we're we think and we could see also a few years ago that there was an attack in Ukraine and that we show that our systems could be very weak and that we could be you could endanger the whole country with these kind of attack. So the we are conscience of that. We're aware of that and And our policies are very strong regarding security.

How smart can the management of these systems get we hear a lot about machine learning and Ai. And is this stuff you guys are looking at because you need to make some decisions in like, you know microseconds. So it's not people won't be able to keep up with that.

Right? Yeah. I it's it's the system is getting complex or every day.

And it's impossible for for human to handle all this kind of information and take the decisions in a timely matter. So we see we're gonna moving to a world where we're going to be relying more and more on measurements IA models machine learning models to provide insights, but also to take decisions in regard to where to steer loads or or any mechanisms integrate. All right, we're all getting beaten up about energy a little bit in terms of its consumption and it's impact on the climate.

How does this all connect back to any effort to be carbon neutral decarbonization. Are you guys talking about that? You know, how do you kind of assure people that you know, like electricity consuming from you has been produced in the most climate friendly way.

How can we ensure I don't think we're able to do to ensure that it's possible but that definitely our change every day to make that happen make that possible to to have infrastructure and the way that we're operating the network the the smarter and and being able so that's what the previous question you asked to be. You ask the regarding the electrical vehicle if we're able to to manage the load of the charging of the of the vehicle we can charge the vehicle one. Once the electricity is green and and and maybe sometimes use the electricity from the battery when we need it rather than to to run gas or call units so We can do better we can do have a better energy energetic mix but Energy Mix, but we cannot ensure that we will be able to have the balance in a few years based on on green green energies we can Inspire.

Um There were multiple grids in both the US and here and other countries do these need to be integrated better and we need more interoperability across them. It seems like there are grids here. There are grids in Spain in Portugal that are slightly different.

I mean, so do we need to unify the grids or are we better with things being slightly separate? I think there is a need to bring it more closely to make it more into Bobo. Although already set site, especially we already see that in the Netherlands and the electricity Goods, but also the gaskets has been there for many years.

It's really old technology, which is really stable and reliable. But can be different in the west part of Netherlands or in the east coast and Ellens and also be different between countries. So I think it's it's not to go to have one each one the same grid everywhere.

I think we do need to see where it makes sense to interconnect them to make better use of the capabilities in available in a different countries. Are you taking a harder? Look at the sustainability requirements of the infrastructure that you're acquiring to go build these modernize these grids and the suppliers that come to you.

Are you asking them to you know prove to you that they're equipment is more energy efficient and it seems like sustainability is a bigger requirement from all those guys than it was maybe five or six years ago where you know, we were like how fast is it? And we didn't really care how much electricity consume Um for that I would that's not the the app to us at the grid operator to decide for that. That's at the level of the state to make the the right decision and we are to host what we have to host and connect what we have to connect and do our best with the assets that we have in terms of production and generation and consumption but that to us to define the the policy that we want the consumer to have regarding these the the Ecological ecological things so that's up to somebody in Brussels or somewhere or in Paris for from connected of course with someone in Bristol, but that's that we are pretty good and to add from that woman you form a Linux Foundation energy perspective really stimulate at the move to more clean clean every renewable energy and I think from a mission perspective.

We really try to emphasize the importance of that and try to focus and give room for projects which stimulate that both from and projects that focus on the distribution small parade and a transmission system operate like us but elephant energy is also focus on broader projects in order parts of the energy domain which can be focused or more the consumer side or the market side or topics. So when you asking folks to do for LF energy, do you want them? Contribute their time.

Do you want them the right code? Do you only want a certain number of companies that are in the energy sector to join? What's kind of the ask that you're looking for?

That's for us the call to action for us. The most important is we have a huge challenge not only us in a regards to to the energy transition. I think we have a huge challenge as a world to move to a more energy system.

That's more renewable more clean and more asses accessible for everyone in the world. And we would like to invite everyone who's working at space to seek seek out to alfanity, but also to one another to see where we can bundle powers. to work together and Tackle this huge challenge we have And I think and I really believe that it open source can be enabler to to combine the Investments but also the smart people and the capacity we have.

In in building great solutions that can really change for the better of the world especially relationship to to the energy sector, you know, you want to close out and add anything. What's you on the top of your wish list? Yeah.

So we are looking to have a 10,000 developers around this energy sector and and we think really that's open source is the way to go further faster and regarding the challenge of the climate change. That's something that we need to implement. And so we like to have more people from the utilities themself and also from the vendor side to come and onboard the links Foundation energy.

There is also business in that so it's not that we don't want to to pay for for the solution. It's that we need to have these software ecosystem as soon as possible and the only way to do it in an efficient manners open source, so that would be my main message. All right, great.

Hey guys. You heard it here. You want to help save the planet go call these guys because it's a start in the right direction gentlemen.

Thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having us. All right, and we'll be back in a minute.