Techstrong TV – July 28, 2022

Hello everyone and welcome to Tech strong TV. Today is Thursday, July 28th. And I'm your host Nathan Solomon today.

We'll bring you some Stellar interviews from conferences around the world. So stay tuned. Start by bringing you your text wrong news recap to quickly catch you up on everything happening in the tech world.

then Tomas krapke the founder and CEO of manta in this interview Alan and Tomas talk about mantis 35 million dollar round as well as how he took a solution and built the company around it. We then bring you to jayfrog's y'all at devops in Israel where Alan interviewed Fred Simon the co-founder and chief data scientist of Jay frog and Amit eser leading Jay frog connect. Three chatted about the challenges delivering software to Connected devices and the edge of using the devops framework that has evolved in the cloud.

Next we take you to kubecon Cloud nativecon where Alan interviewed the chief engineer for devsecops at Boeing Chad Bowden. In this discussion Alan and Chad talk about Boeing's recent announcement on becoming a cncf platinum member. We then have an interview from RSA with a molecular Kulkarni.

That you product and Engineering officer at crowdstrike Al. An sit down with a mole to discuss devops culture and a moment several big product announcements. So be sure to tune in for that.

Next we bring you part two of The Haunted hacker this Edition picks up where we left off on Tuesday. As Mike Jones is joined by the host of the barcode Park podcast. Then we have episode 12 of the open Mainframe hosts Mitch Ashley and John meredick are joined by Elizabeth Joseph Jacob.

Balhan and Stacy Miller to preview the upcoming open Mainframe Summit in Philadelphia. We then bring you to cubecon Cloud nativecon where Mitch's joined by Tom Ellery and Patrick Bergstrom of stormforge in this interview Tom Mitch and Patrick discuss how to bring transparency into your kubernetes costs. Next Mitch meets with Ranjit tennakar from Nest digital engineering to discuss how recent world events impact the future of digital transformation.

We then care about cap the show off with two editions of view of this art. And the first Mike is joined by offer. Mayor the CTO of midija over and Mike talk about how platforms such as slack and Microsoft Office 365 are being compromised by cyber criminals.

In the second Mike talks with olegia clutchuk from barracudi networks about how HTML attachments or becoming much more malicious. Is we have coming up for you here on Tech strong TV. Let's get the show started.

Enjoy. com is the number one online destination for devops education and Community Building. It's calm covers all aspects of devops including devops best practices and tools devops culture devsecops business impact continuous testing continuous delivery and more.

com where the world meets devops. Today is Thursday, July 28th, and here the headlines. First in news Amazon is raising the price of prime for UK customers due to higher operating costs starting in September monthly subscriptions will go up one pound to 899 with annual memberships rising from 79 pounds to 95.

The price Rises the first in the UK since 2014 and Amazon claims. It's partly due to inflation. Companies around the world have had to cut back on expenses as macroeconomic conditions continue to deteriorate.

The move doesn't come as much of a surprise as Amazon raised its prices in the US in February. While companies like Netflix and CVS have also raised prices due to inflation. Prime offers users more than just streaming as it also provides unlimited deliveries on products.

So even with the price hike customers may still find it to be an essential product. next Best Buy opening a small digital first store in Monroe, North Carolina The store will be 15% of the size of a regular Best Buy store and will be even smaller than some of the Apple Store seen around the country. Despite the size the store will still carry large TVs computers headphones wearables phones and more the compromise.

However, is that it won't carry large appliances. The digital first store will offer completely different experience than people are used to as people will walk in to a large 7 foot screen containing information about what the store has to offer as well as lockers for online order pickups. Generally most items around the store will be display items and when customers want to make a purchase they will use Best Buys just scan it process using the QR code on the product.

Overall, the store is a test run, but it may prove to be an innovation used by other companies in the future. In other news General Motors reached a deal with LG chem to secure a supply of cathode active material or can this material is essential for GM as it is attempting to make enough electric vehicles to become completely carbon neutral by 2040. LG chem will be supplying cam to GM starting toward the end of 2022 and the deal is set to last until 2030.

According to the automaker it will have enough battery material to power around 5 million electric vehicles. GM also has plans to spend 30 billion dollars by 2025 on the creation of 30 new plugin models as it continues to play catch up with the industry Titan Tesla. With GM representing about 6% of the electric vehicle Market in the US Tesla is out to a staggering Head Start representing 66% GM also plans on spending over 4 billion dollars on the construction of two battery factories in North America in partnership with LG chem Next Hulu is making headlines.

Is it faces backlash for its decision not to air ads that talked about gun control and abortion. The Democratic senatorial Campaign Committee Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and Democratic Governor's Association attempted to buy joint ads focusing on abortion and gun control with identical ad placements on other channels. Among the channels they attempted to air on Hulu is the only one that rejected the ads citing content related issues is the reason in response #boycott Hulu when viral on Twitter and across different social media platforms.

The rejection of the advertisement comes soon after an extremely controversial Supreme Court decision Roe v Wade as well as numerous mass shootings that have sparked outrage. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee responded by saying that Hulu's censorship of the truth is outrageous and offensive. So after they wait and see if this develops further or blows over.

We also have an update from the CEO of Instagram Adam masery, which gives insight to the direction Instagram's headed. Recently, some people have noticed full screen videos and photos on their feeds as Instagram continues to evolve year after year. However, many say the update isn't for the better with solver celebrities like Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian saying things like stop trying to be tiktok and make Instagram again.

In response mossery says the video shift will continue but photos aren't completely going away. He also said that Instagram will continue to try to put friend-based content at the top of the feed and at the front of Instagram stories. Although the CEO declined to comment further seems like this may be only the beginning of Instagram's changes.

Tanner Journal we have an article discussing the importance of the NSA. K-8 guidelines. The guidelines are an extensive 66 page document covering best practices for categories such as pod security network separation and threat detection.

Companies around the world are adopting kubernetes, but security needs need to be a top priority. These guidelines from the NSA provide organizations with a means of secure use of kubernetes. On Security Boulevard, we have an article discussing al-qura's recent cloud service integration with firewalls from Fortinet.

Disintegration makes it possible to automate the deployment of Fortinet firewalls with networking services from cloud service providers. This integration was designed to help secure networks that cloud service providers give them access to. The integration between alkira and fortnite is an example of the connection between Network and security operations.

Security of cloud networks requires us to rethink how to approach security operations, which is something that this integration tries to achieve finally on digital cxo. We have an article talking about how cios can better position their organization during the tech Talent crunch. With employee turnover increasing the tech Talent crunch is impacting almost every organization.

In order to succeed cios must think creatively and Implement strategies to not only retain top talent, but also attract new Talent by offering competitive packages. And that's today's text wrong news recap. on TV Interview, I am really happy to have on today Thomas.

Crocky and I missed that because I don't have that slow back accent down. I apologize for Thomas. Yeah, we try.

Welcome. Welcome to text junk TV. How are you?

Just thanks for inviting me doing great. Just really exciting about this this discussion interview. Great.

I mentioned you in the founder you are the founder CEO of manta. Why don't you what start here? What what is Matt?

Give us a little background maybe a little of your own background as well. absolutely, we'll be happy to so my background very simple I was years ago developer engineer data engineer consultant working for a lot of larger Enterprises back in Europe and menta was one of the projects we did for at least academic was very small utilated, but it started as a project for one of the customers we had back then in 2012 or 11 in finance Back in Black and then over time as we did use again and again to We realized wow, actually there is value. There is something we can do not only here for project we can do something globally.

We can help all Enterprises out there not just couple companies with headquarters in Czech Republic and that's how the story started basically as a project for for a customer. And what did the project do? Actually Manta is I mean the easiest thing how you can visualize what Manta is is to imagine a Google map.

So Manti is a Google map of your data environment. You see flow of data, as you know, like like journey of data from Source systems to dashboards and reports. You see every transformation of data.

You see every movement of data every calculation. It can be in your SQL scripts. It can be in your reports.

It can be in your ETL elt Transformations. It can be Excel sheet. You also transform data in your extra sheet so you can be everywhere and you see all of it step by step starting in your Source systems like invoicing system or CRM system ending up in your dashboards and reports.

So like journey of data visualize visualized as a as a Google map. So there's the easiest way how to imagine what mental does Absolutely. and of course his name but there's a real-life matter.

Why don't we do little background on that? Actually there is of course, like everyone knows Manta this beautiful creatures, but there's also a plan called menta and it's here. I really love it.

It looks like real Manta. Like the animal and it's a beautiful plan. So, I mean it's everywhere in my life.

I got it. Okay, man to Memphis everywhere. and Thomas you were is that you came to found man to you you were working in Prague for the company when they you I guess you helped originally write the project or start the project.

Yes, you best rest through I mean the the whole story is even more complicated. I'm also University teacher historically. I was teaching at two universities back in Brock and then we had like something small very very small.

and we had very good relationship with two with two major technical universities back in Prague doing a lot of research together, you know, like students doing like Master thesis and bachelor's diseases and there was an idea. Um, maybe we can combine these together and maybe we can use the research and maybe some like Government funding that's used for research and we can combine it with this idea. That's actually super nice, but we have no money to develop a real product.

We can combine these two things together and we can create something even better and we did so I think it was 2013. We want our national competition. As a combination of a research at University and like a small company and combined together.

We spent next three years working on a product to be very super lucky to get funding from government and European funds. It was really really amazing how we were able to start and stop using this so it's you know, like This University thing it can change a lot and it in my life. Excellent love it and just I don't know if we you mentioned it and I missed it.

But what was the time frame for the family of manta and So that's actually very good question. As I mentioned we build something for a customer around 2012 in 2013. We won the national competition and the University.

Industry research project started and in second half of 2016. We were ready to like start the company. So by let's say 2016 Manta was founded as an independent entity.

As a spin-off from the IT services company, I was working for back then. So starting with 2017. We were fully independent five six seven people something small and selling to mostly US Financial companies.

and let's get absolutely it just we are super excited to announce that like a month ago more or less. We were able to close a series be funding. It was a big big moment for us.

We have raised certified Millions from multiple investors first day edrd Bessemer Venture partner's sap and plenty of other smaller parties, but it was a really big milestone for us. So everyone at mantis excited right now and there are thinking like, um, what's the best way how to use the money absolutely. Well, first of all, congratulations, you know, certainly we are seeing Market changes in fundraising and availability of money and the cost of money and you know, it's inflation and the war and and everything.

Covid so, you know, congratulations to you and the team and those are some great and investors to have as well. That's something very well. So funny story.

Is that series a we did it in the middle of covid pandemic so clearly I'm trying to raise money whenever just the word is falling down. So sometimes you got a big one. Everyone's zagging right and That's the way it is.

So, you know for our audience tell me since I mentioned to you off camera it fairly technical audience and they you know, they everyone gets excited with big numbers. Of course in 35 million is a lot of money, but in terms of what does it mean for them? What do you what does it mean from that?

What do you you know? Okay, No One's Gonna Hold Your Feet to the fire. This is an audit.

But you know, what? What will These funds be useful? That's a very good question.

Maybe if I may I will answer lit in a little bit longer way. So first thing is what we can all see around us when it comes to daytime data infrastructure. It's really crazy.

I mean for most companies Even like very traditional companies existing for 50 years last five to ten years. It's like explosion of complexity. That's one of the key reasons why I was so obsessed with mankind starting the company because there was nothing for data Engineers out there to help them deal with that complexity.

That's why the the map idea just you know, otherwise you are completely lost and things when it comes to complexity are getting worse every single day. We have new and new technology. We mix 50 70 different Technologies to build what we call a data pipeline or data stack when we talk about larger Enterprise.

It's just hundreds of technology. Sometimes even thousands of data pipelines or tens of thousands of data, but we just really really difficult to navigate. And as I said, we are moving faster and faster.

And there is nothing to control this ecosystem and that's why series B was so critical for us. We are very successful so far with c-series series a we were able to like develop very very good technology to navigate the existing infrastructure and help like many many companies very large companies out there to actually get visibility and if I'm a data engineer, Really really terrified that if I change one column in one table and my top executive report will break because there is a dependency. I don't see we want to remove this fear from lives of data Engineers out there and why Series be so critical for us.

Because now we see as I mentioned complexity getting even higher you have tons of new technologies. We need to support them very well. So we are talking about technology like databricks.

For example, we are talking about technologies that are just very created yesterday or two days ago. And tomorrow, they will be used as part of modern data stay by first 10 15 20 100 companies. So that's one big part what we want to achieve with the money to Support these very very young less much Technologies and help more companies using them.

That's one part. Second part that even more critical when you think about data today, everything is so fragmented. You have silos everywhere.

I'm not and not like just with data but also with metadata. If you think about who understands data in the company, you typically have like five six or 10 different silos with different information about data you have and everyone is trying to integrate everything together. And that's very difficult and also.

coming from let's say dark ages of integration where every vendor was so obsessed with like hiding apis and not integrating with others. You see the market like very slowly discovering how critical it is to have an open ecosystem. So mentai is one technology can mend us solve everything no matter gives you a man.

So what now? What about your data? Privacy Solutions how they can use the map.

What about your data quality Solutions how they can use them. What about your data engineering? Cdci Solutions or testing Solutions how they can use the map should everyone develop.

I have or should we somehow integrate us? An industry, but we have no standards, right? That's one of the issues really killing us and big part of the money.

And the reason why we raised is we want to level up this integration ecosystem menta was open since day one, but that's not enough. We need to help others to be open too. And for now we are doing it by really integrating with everyone and everything we can in data space.

We are working or helping other companies to Define standards. Just we are involved in every possible way you can imagine but the ultimate goal for us is To integrate across the whole data management stack and by doing so we'll be able to help every single data professional out there because otherwise that map is hardly available. If you are not a data engineer or data architect and not using mental directly, but there are many other people in the company who would benefit from better visibility, but they can't because integration is not there and that's a big big task for us.

I think not only for us there are other companies trying to do the same. It's just very hard. I love it.

Thomas, you know we didn't tell people and that's why I want to thank you for coming on. I know you were feeling a little under the weather. But you know what when the going gets tough the tough get going right?

That's true. We didn't tell people where we're trying to get more information the mental website. com.

That's the easiest. com is the easiest and the best. Absolutely.

Hey, we're about out of time. I want to thank you for coming on as I mentioned. You know, what don't wait till the next time you raise money.

Come on you what's going on with with matter? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. It was real pleasure to be here our pleasure to have you on Thomas.

Perfect Thomas cookie found a CEO of manta here on Textron TV. We're gonna take a break. We'll be right back.

This is texturing TV. All right. Hey, we're back here at yellow devops and the Hilton Tel Aviv the buzzes.

Well the den the roar has died down a little bit because the sessions are back open. It was very loud here 700 strong sold out conference conferences are back and it's good to be back. Thanks.

Let me introduce YouTube our next two guess one is one needs. No way introduction. He's been on my show for years and years.

We just came off stage and that's Fred Simon who is a co-founder and it's a cheap day to scientist, right? Yes for Jay frog Fred. Welcome back and sitting next to Fred we have is a first time on our show is yeah.

Okay. All right. So actually this camera is looking.

All right, so, my name is Amit amitizer. I'm reading j-frock connect, which is a new group here at jfrog. We were startup actually that jfog acquired a year ago that's called upswift.

And now we are part of the part of the family of jfogen. It's so excited to be here actually and thank you for hosting us and our pleasure. So we have a tradition.

The first time a guest is on usually you guys give a little background about your your family your education. You want to tell us anything. Holy kid.

So yeah with me for going we got to stay on. All right. But anyway, welcome.

Thank you for being here, you know, one of the theme that's developing this year. I think show me called it the devops of things right this whole idea of devices not just Bones and iPads, but devices that are connected to the net the end and controlling them maybe at the edge the relationship between the cloud The Edge device and what this means for developers, right? Because it's a new Just like when we started developing for the cloud, yeah and devops kind of took over for that job and devops.

We're almost moving. I feel like into a new era era. So what is this mean?

And and what's Jay frogs rolling that I'm gonna stop at the high level and I make these more he's handing to the oil and and opening the the trunk and getting into the the devices but yes at the high level Computing and I mean the power of the devices are getting bigger and bigger and they'll start to be a lot of layers. We talked about it on the panel. That was really nice very my cocon caller and then there is actually new example the devices which are what we are focusing on and then there is ages and then there is the big cloud and and all these different layers.

Different capability but all of them. I have quite a good level of computing memory storage power on very small power devices and environment and all of them they need software and this is kind of the Revolution we are living today is that most of the people that are designing those make whole devices they are Hardware specially and they don't they have the software guys that develop with them and they have the same kind of mentality and this agile deploy every day over the other day continues and all this kind is not part of their own. We are thinking and this is where we need to be.

This is where we need to go. Not only because it's fun to update software over here, right? But because it's really provide value to the device.

It's also say more secure. That's the only way to secure the That will be always problems and the world is changing. Also.

Yeah, every sense of is in a different environment needs to connect to different systems. And so there is always a better way of doing it more system to connect to so change is the root of the game and this is what up Swift is doing to to help them. Yeah, and yeah, I will add to that and say you said Ellen he said that it's a new era and and in that term of fire T and it's for me.

It's amazing. I see customers every day. I need customers every day and they just looking for best practices and this and this and this Market because you know, they came they all came from the regular devops Cloud environment where we're Using ansible or kubernetes on the the providers out there that are giving them a lot of tools and when they are coming to the challenges that they meet in in the edge, they try the first thing that as a developer you probably will try to do try to take something that you already know and connect it with a few scripts that you can that you can do you can develop for your use case and when I'm showing them connect when I'm showing them what we did here.

So you they you see the you see their eyes and join this and you see that they are in their stand that we are really trying to build here the end to end solution from the from the developer to the device with all the tools that they might need to have in this in this area and connecting to to a few things that Fred said we see that we see more and more complex software in the edge and it's of course coming with with a strong Hollywood that is getting there and this is another positive. I think to see from the side, you know that you see where the future is going. The future is really going to this place where you're gonna have a really strong device in the in the edge in the end running with containers and not one or two.

It is funny. But we do have now project with more than 20 containers running on an edge device. That's that's just crazy.

Right and I mean, you can't run 20 containers without having a good maintenance system behind it. So that's that's really the story of what we're gonna see I think a few hours from now, I think sooner than you think about way of yeah celebrating but you know talking to show me earlier. We did an interview here.

I've been in this technology a long time. There's a saying take technology old technology Never Dies, right? It just gets kind of subsumed absorbed into the next thing right so I know in my lifetime, I went from before the internet to TCP IP in the internet then the cloud right but just because and we spent so much focus on cloud today doesn't mean the data center went away.

It didn't go away. There's probably as much indeed as there is in the cloud that's right. Now we'll focus on the edge because that's the shiny new baby.

We want to play with doesn't mean the cloud goes away so that I think the same way we learned multi-cloud we're gonna learn multi Home multi place, right? So there's a place for the cloud on the device or there's a relationship. Right between the cloud and the devices the relationship between the edge and the cloud that it's a for the multi-cloud and the hybrid and things like that.

It's really decentralized. Right so distributed, okay, every kubernetes cluster in Google Amazon or Azure is the same kubernetes cluster here with the edge. There is a article organization that got to be taken in place.

By the way. We we have it today in the cloud native application between the amount of things that you do on the client side in your npm in your JavaScript kind of things. How much compute you put in your JavaScript web and how much and we start to see that really really funny about bunch of young JavaScript developer that just discover that they can generate HTML on the server.

Here it was super excited about generating HTML on the server and sending it to the clients right over you. What according that so about technology Never Dying, it's just yeah, I know. It doesn't know I'm out of JavaScript and all this stuff on this effort.

Maybe I can do it. So then it's all that was really really funny and but for the edge, it's kind of the experience. We are we are seeing here exactly that the same how much compute you put on the edge.

And and the thing is that a car for example is the food that the center there is a sound collage one that is actually connected to the internet. There is another centralized computer that is controlling the car a lot of money or any control right you yeah, and there is the display for entertainment display and all these kind of things a whole nother. Yeah, exactly.

So when you look at it, it's a full data center. Okay with a lot of that's all living on the edge and yeah, I mean literally yeah, that's this and and each one has a different level of security and each one has a different operating system operating systems and and the way to update and it's quite clear that today the way it is developed updated secure and distributed. He's a huge waste of energy for all the developers.

There is a huge waste of time sideways said you're doing the same thing again only most of the time the first time and time to fix it. And this is what we need to create and we need to provide is the platform to help those guys say, please don't be invent the wheel there is a way to do that. We do do JavaScript that does HDML, but that means I don't disagree with anything you guys said but Think the other key to it is and I mentioned it on stage is the 5G aspect right this idea of instantaneous deep communication, right?

Because otherwise we have to build the edge to be autonomous. Right? Like let's take cars right?

I just got a brand new a BMW IX. I had to wait a long time mostly because the chips it was chips, you know would supply chain but it is it's a data center. There are I forgot how many chips that go into this car and the software is automatically updated.

It's the latest IOS not iOS, please right. I had an incident last last month my radio this I actually don't have satellite satellite wasn't playing it said it was playing but it wasn't playing. I went right to the dealer be apologize.

I had a bad update. Yeah, and that a re-up day. Once they updated everything worked.

Great. Again. This is the world we're gonna live in so my two question you you should not have the goal of what we are doing is we as a developer that developed this system called BM.

We should be aware of your problem before you are exactly what system saying your sound is playing and I'm saying unless I'm deaf. It's not play. It shouldn't reported back.

Right? So two things number one, you hit it the end user. He has to be he shouldn't be part of them right you wanted to see has to be done, right?

But yeah, it should work. It just work like apple just work. Yeah, right.

Here's my point and we do it for the developers. What point have we put too much? So on that developers plate, right we put Security on their plate.

They had to learn from the become like good said on the site some Java to full stack and out of to manetti's and brunette is an edge at some point. Does it you know that we have this problem with airplanes, right? Do we need human still pilot planes better than autopilot the machine are we getting to the point where humans it's too much?

I personally I mean even so I'm as a developer. The only way for us to create the quantity of software that is needed for the world for the world and softly is to use tools and to create this is what we are doing. So we create our own Automation and we create our own software.

We're gonna order Way out of it. Yeah, exactly. So that what you want to make them so far more.

You're a little younger. They're not good. What do you think?

I mean when you're sitting here 10 20 years from now. First of all of this reminding me that you know coding is is another war that is getting to a place where you won't need to code. You already see a lot of automations that are helping you to write code faster and you know, there will be a day that you won't need to know the syntax at all probably for the languages that you are using but but I do believe that we need to our job should be that we need to help the developers have less and less constraints by giving them the solutions great ideas possible, you know with kubernetes today.

You need to know a lot before you can do something and that's one of the key things that I really put when I started Swift and as part of jfrag and the hollow end to end solution that we gave we want the developer to stay where he's good at and giving him the tools in a way that he doesn't really need to know what is going on behind it in the background, you know, just by using a UI that my parents can use without having any knowledge in the world of programming that's for for me. This is this is this should be where we're going to and keep the developer focus on what he's doing best which is of course the application and not the coronary staff from Yahoo. He had a very good definition of what is devops and I need to apply a really perfectly for iot.

It's homecoming to production without human intervention everything that the developer does once you write the code and he has Commit how this code end up on your car on your machine. That's that's all process. There should not be any human in the middle manipulating.

They need to be a lot of automation a lot of things that human are automating and putting in in the process and a lot of automated processes, but there are no need for human intervention. And today in the iot world the amount of human intervention to deploy, you know where to devices is just through the top is it just just crazy. We need that it is it's so in cards.

It's in everything we do even I am a big Sonos user at home my whole house when there's an update to Sonos. I can't watch TV. Right because it never works.

I always got to get in and do it by hand. Yeah, it's just and pray. That's me and adorns up with a call.

I do I do multi multi provider on me. I have Nvidia and then Android and then Antigua all kinds so and Google home and Alexa, you know, I don't trust anyone but yeah, they all wake up and at least there is always one of them but do the Amazon Alexa if the Sonos don't work, but still it frustrates me. Yes, right, even if added the 15 or 16 speakers just that one's not working.

I take the whole thing apart to make one of them work, even though they take 14 offline. Anyway, that's yes, I'm sick like that. Anyway, I I do I want to end our interview with this.

It is sort of a new era here, right? We need to think it's like when we first started getting our head around Cloud in a public Cloud. We need to think about devices about Edge and about what that means for developers what it means for the end users what it means for the way we do, you know without never lose sight of everything we do is for a reason right all of this fantastic innovation in automation.

Look what the world especially now right with covid. Where would we have been without all of that covid? Right and and that something we don't we can't lose sight of right we do this to make everyone's lives better right to do things better.

And if and if somehow we could do it then it's worth while to do. Yeah for the developer of suffering. Continuous integration.

There was one sentence that was really good for continuous integration. If it hurts if it's painful do it more often. Thank you exactly developer and then you you start to recommend and this is exactly what we need to do here.

It hurts. It's painful do it more roughly. I would get better.

Welcome to your first section. Thank you, Jay frog yes, continue success. Thank you.

All right, we're gonna take a break. I think they're gonna probably do lunch here yala, and then we'll be back after lunch. We have Fred back on with our friend Baruch about we're gonna talk about a new book.

Yes as well, and we have a whole bunch of other guests. So check us out. Thank you.

Thank you. com covers all aspects of cybersecurity including data security deaf secops Cloud Security application security network security security threats and more. com to learn more.

com home of security bloggers Network This is digital anarchist. All right back here on the still crowded Cube card for their act lives right is our hands gonna fall off. She's signing so many books out there, but people are lined up as far as I can see here for a book.

That's a great thing. We have one more interview. We're doing on our coverage for cubecon 2022 here and Europe.

And one introduce you see the chat and I just blanked your leg, but loaded Chad is from Bowie. And actually Chad wanted you sure tell yeah, nobody a little bit. Um, Chad Bowden chief engineer for devsec offset Boeing a lot of stuff going on there for all the things that we're doing with containerization.

One of the big reasons. We're out here. One of my colleagues is we announced our our Platinum sponsorship of cncf.

So many is yeah. It's it's been outstanding we're excited to see all the all the fun stuff that we do Ricardo Torres is just off camera. He was on the keynote the first day that we were here.

So he's gonna be on the board of governance for them having a lot of fun Super Smart Guys super talented guy. So yeah, we've been here, And it is a great question is Frank audience out there. Why does a company like Boeing trying to plan them sponsorship in cncf?

Lennox Foundation is a pretty penny. I don't know how much on top of my head but it's a pretty bad. Why does the company like Boeing make that kind of commitment?

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a little multifaceted in what we're doing there and and part of the other the other thing that I didn't really talk about that we're doing is we're really leaning into a lot of our open source contribution.

We just hired we stood up an awesome office within Boeing brought in a senior manager and she's also working with with my colleague Ricardo on standing up this hospital. I mean Bowman does lots of software right? I mean tons of software a lot of people think about just it's just Plains and you know, the Weapons Systems and satellites, but I mean, it's all we know software the world long time ago.

And so We do lots with software and and we want to make it easier to contribute back to the open source. It's been a challenge within Boeing for quite a while to do that. So one of the reasons for the the cncf sponsorship is to help facilitate us working closer with open source and Industry and containerization.

We use containerization everywhere. We have we have quite a few domains that we're trying to solve problems in right putting containers or looking at putting, you know kubernetes on air platforms or on you know, missiles or pulling down satellite Telemetry. I mean, we have a broad problem set that we're trying to solve it's not just one problem that we're trying to solve with like a big kubernetes cluster.

We're looking at thousands of kubernetes clusters and they're all different right some are K3 summer K-8 Summer On The Edge a lot of them are disconnected and closed areas. So like the problems are really Immense that we're trying to solve. So all of that is just a long way of saying, you know that it's really one of the reasons why we wanted to get more closely involved with the cncf to help facilitate a lot of that back and forth communication.

Yeah, actually, let's if you don't mind let's turn to death Tech. Absolutely. Yeah, it's your thing.

Right? Yeah, so we started a couple years ago two and a half years ago or so pretty small effort. Just me and a couple of other guys going.

You know, what we need to I'm tired of building the same old software Factory over and over again for different programs and it's always a little bit different. So we we started building just a containerizer like let's take I think we start with openshift. Let's grab openshift.

Throw it down deploy a whole bunch of tools in there. I Jenkins so in our Cube, you know, just just everything that you need to start right in software right? Not too long.

After that the dod came out with their reference architecture for Deaf secops, right? If you hadn't heard of that it's a pretty big thing in the defense community that the dod brought out this reference architecture. It really helped a lot of the companies kind of inform where you're going so it helped us in that Reg.

Card, but since then, you know, we've been continuing to just grow our capabilities one of the big challenges that we have there, you know as as you probably know from you interviewing all the people that you you interview is, you know on the dod side and it's not just DOD, but I talk a lot about DOD right? You're talking Air Force Navy Marines Army and they all have different problems sets and they all want things just a little bit different and some classifieds unclassified. Some of its both and so having a software Factory that we can deploy that provides devsecops capabilities, right?

And as you know, it's not just the tools right? It's easy to say right? Here's the tools, you know doubt doubt shall have dubstick Ops for now, right but it's it's really about the culture in there.

Yeah. There goes to something that you know, the reference architecture that you mentioned a little bit ago. I mean for you guys what you already far down that path anyway, right?

So the reference architecture was almost validation. Yes more than it was. Oh my God, this is new to me.

Yeah, right. This was more validation and look like in my prior business Mitchell and I, you know co-founded along with that friend Raj Company still secure. We did a ton of DOD.

Yeah stuff 60% of our business. When you have that stamp of approval that we have an official reference architecture that becomes sort of that gold standard, right that gold release that you can follow and whether it's bowing or or Lockheed or you know name any federal contractor. They're all following that reference architecture.

Yeah, you could Bank on it. Yeah, and that kind of uniformity. You may say oh we're better and you may be but at least you have that minimum bar of hey man.

This is this what you need to be at. Yeah. Yeah.

So a little bit on that one. Like we I want I would like to say that we were way far down the path but reference architecture, we weren't by the time it came. All right, and and it's it's a lot of work to get there that reference architecture was a lot right?

It wasn't just you have to have kubernetes and you have to have hardened containers that are coming out there. I mean it went a long way they the dod put a lot of thought into and they did a good job on that and it's been taking us a long time to when that reference architecture came out validating is the absolutely the word that I use part of it was like informing like, oh we didn't think about X now we need to go do X, but it was also a lot of validation that we had in there and and then they've come out, you know with a virgin too, you know, and and which is good that they've been continuing on that but there's a lot of work to build that. Hence the cncf right?

I mean these kinds what we're seeing and and again we haven't been in a big place like this right in a couple years, but the world hasn't stopped software development hasn't stopped. Certainly. It's accelerated.

Yeah, and so you can't you can't work on version one three years later, right? You gotta there's gonna be version China. We just interviewed.

They get lab folks, right? They're gonna have a new meet Milestone release coming out. They do them once a year the big Milestones.

This is This is just the nature of our business right that or frankly too often times by the time a reference architecture comes out. It's absolutely yep, right because if you took a year putting it together, it's a year old. Yeah, and and so we you know, we see that a lot.

Yeah, absolutely and and the the the former Chief software after the Air Force who was very instrumental and coming out with this reference architecture. He ended up, you know stepping away and part of it part of it was due to a lot of frustration of things moving too. So in the government and and I hear you, yeah and you know, but so let me befriend there to all my government friends out there right some things they do move slow.

Absolutely. There's a lot of things around devops or I've seen a lot of government initiatives take a lead a leading role in yeah, even in here and Lennox Foundation projects, so they don't have to be Anyone who says well, it's the government. What do you expect right?

They don't have when it works, right? It works, right? Yeah and and just because you know, if and if anyone area the government has happens to be slower than we where we are Boeing as a company like that's not an excuse for us to not go back to me.

Oh wait, we should slow down. We're there. We want to be here.

Hello. That's supposed to do. Yeah, we want to be ahead and help plus, you know Boeing's more than just government.

Right? We got a lot of commercial software that we're doing and I don't know we got to do that. Right and you know, we don't even want to bring it up.

No, no, not that you did that. But yeah and There's a lot of software involved in there and and it's constantly changing and you're always you know, not all of its containerized right? It's no containerization within big companies is still relatively new well, and we forget that too.

We're here, you know, when when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. Yeah. So we're here you can't and of course the whole world present this stuff.

Yes, not so much. Yeah. Absolutely.

Anyway, Chad. We're about out of time man. I want to thank you for people.

Yes you well, actually the the Bowing cncf will be on the cncf website. Yep Bones on there. I'm I'm pretty easy to find on LinkedIn Chad Bowden if you have my name absolutely, right, but I appreciate your time.

All right. We hope to maybe see you at RSA. Yes.

All right. Thanks. We are on there.

Hey, that's gonna wrap it great cute. God great Cloud nativecon. Great event, here.

We hope everyone gets home healthy and happy we will see you next live at RSA in San Francisco. Chad's gonna be there, too. That's the week of June 5th, but for now this Allen Shimmel fortech strong Tech strong TV today.

We're out, bye-bye. This is texturing TV. Hey everyone.

We're back here live. This is day four. I last day of live coverage at RSA conference.

It's nice and quiet. It's early in the morning here. It's only about nine o'clock.

And the the crowds that came in are already in and so here in Moscone West. It's probably one of the quietest times we've had all week and that's it. Yeah, which makes her great great live broadcasting.

Let me introduce you to our guests for this segment. His name is Amal. Co Carney that's like you got it, right?

All right. I'm oh first of all welcome and thanks for joining us You're Gonna Let You kind of introduce yourself. What what is your Title and responsibilities you're with or why should mention I'm always with crowdstrike.

Would you touch strike today to be here Alan and I am the chief product and Engineering officer at crowdstrike. So I run product product management defining division the roadmap of for our technology where we are going and then of course, I also have engineering to deliver on that. So so it's it's defined as well.

It's entering ownership. Yeah, and you know, we were talking a little off camera. I'm digital cxo our newest Community and brand that we we've been developing is really a testament to this kind of new way of thinking.

That's right. I did, you know at the upper actualize is this sea level? That's right.

And and so the idea of having a sea level person who not only defines the product. but then actually leave the team building the product that's You know what five 10 years ago. That was I heard of that was not common.

Yeah, very not coming. But today we're seeing this more and more. Yeah, the chief product offers also the chief technology officer or you know, the chief engineering guys is also the CTO right?

The CIO sometimes is also the Chief Information Security officerately. it is a it's very different, you know digital transformation I think is it's pushing that out. I mean, I I think I think the way to think about it is we we work with the full devops mindset and and to me devops is a culture right where it's it's all about that end to end ownership.

So even within engineering we say the engineers have to own it from defining the how the design all the way to implementation and also supporting it in production. So we don't have a separate operations team, for example, that's that's my design because we Embrace devops as a culture and I think this is this merging of of roles is is it's in a similar vein, right? So someone who is defining the product should also be do it do it in a grounded way to say.

Okay. What is possible Right a lot of the those like that the conflicts that used to be there go away because of that because and you have to be balanced on both sides. I mean, I'm thinking back to my own experience before it's actually stronger you guys involved in several Adventure back startups, right?

And you know it now that you say you're doing it it just like a light bulb it makes perfect sense because we would have a product team and I was involved, you know in product, right? And we had a vision and what the feature look like this before devops would do whatever release that's a year. Yeah.

So we had a vision of what this feature would be and what that feature would be and then we give that to the engineering team and you know, they come back to us with some prototypes or MVP or whatever. You want to call them back then right? That's not what we were thinking.

Yeah, right. And yeah, so and so doing it having you know one person own both of that. It's now that I think about it's a no-brainer.

Yeah. Anyway, it was for some organizations like it's it's you're right, but I think it's a forward way of looking at it. Let's talk about crowdstrike.

So you guys have that several product announcements there. That's like the week here at all right say yeah. I know if you don't mind share with our audience, absolutely.

Absolutely so super excited. About all of the announcements we made at RSA this week the biggest one I start with that which is which which to me is is very exciting because it's a fundamental piece of technology that we're building. It's called crowdstrike asset graph.

What what asset graph does is gives organizations a 360 degree view into all of their it assets Cloud assets their mobile assets their iot assets. So all assets but not just assets also the configurations on those assets the users and identities in their organizations. Yeah, okay and applications that are running deployed on those but going even beyond that.

It's it's also looking at relationships between all of those entities. So which users are logging on to which hosts which applications are deployed on which hosts are being used by which users all of that as a holistic graph database it it is the first time that this is being done as a large-scale graph database with all of the relationships being being Incorporated enough in a truly schematized manner. That's super exciting because I think it enables a lot of different scenarios.

And and the first one we are starting off with is our product Falcon discover, which is which gives users the understanding of which hosts are managed management. They have crowdstrike Falcon sensor on them, which host unmanaged what applications are deployed which versions do they have which users have what kind of privileges sort of giving you just understanding of visibility into your landscape that to me is the biggest problem we have today right? Well Yeah, this you you talking about fundamental security is not here.

Right? So number one is you can't defend what you don't know you have absolutely absolutely number two. Look I I'm in this business for 25 years.

Right? Right. You remember Big Fix right IBM, but that's 10 12 years ago.

Yeah. That was all big fix model right is we we can't fix we gotta know what you fix it. They did it and maybe I'm not blaming them don't you but we didn't have the technology then to go to the depth.

That's right that you're going got databases didn't exist. Like that's new right? I mean we could tell what IP address and what what that device said it was right that iPad that's applications users these because we just didn't have that's really never that kind of information.

Yeah number two, though is The ability like you said managed devices meaning there's some sort of agent where they want to call it an agent with agent or an agent. That's it. There's something on it.

Yeah. But what we've seen is now the ability to do it on unmanaged device exactly because again, it's easy to know what you have when you already have an agent on that side that's chances are the ones we don't know are the ones but don't have any and that's a major problem for far. It's even for compliance.

Like what coverage do I have to have 100% coverage with the security tools that I'm supposed to be deploying. Absolutely. And and in the in this remote first world, there are resources all over the place right that are popping up.

Yeah that are part of the Enterprise but they're invisible to large extent plus Shadow. It is a big thing. So all of those like doing that Sort of real-time updated 360 degree view into your assets and into your Enterprise was a was a big heart problem.

And one of the key things we solved within that is a problem of entity resolution, which is multiple data sources tell you about something right. They may be telling you about let's say this this computer or this the other data source may be telling you some parts of some bits about the same computer or could be about a different one and how do you know if they're talking about two different things or two same things like one of the customers we were talking to saying? Hey, I have the same host name the same IP address for two different computers on two different subnets, right and we have to descent this ambigued that so that's that's a hard problem of entity resolution that we've solved with it.

Absolutely good stuff good stuff. All right, we've got three. Yeah more.

Yeah two more. So the other one is we crowdstrike recently acquired company called hum. Oh, yes, which is an index-free schema schema aware but schema free data store in finally scalable live search and what we're doing as part of this announcement is to connect crowdstrike Falcon, which you meal.

Yes through Hume of a falcon so that enables Falcon data to be seamlessly moved over into humio enables long-term retention in humio for for users to do their compliance requirements their auditing requirements as well as retrospective hunting and forensics. Something happened Falcon detected it prevented it mitigated it but now six months later you want to say hey what what exactly happened when did they come in? All of that?

You can do which you know with that in finite fast search that we are making available. So that's the second announcer sexually. Actually I might of I think I started interview with so you On here outside right there.

That's right, but that again. We didn't have that capability. That's right, right.

That's and that and now we do yeah last one. Yeah. So the last one is around Falcon XTR.

So HDR as you as you obviously know there's there's a lot of Buzz around it and and lot of horses much is zero trust that that's right. So but we've been focused on making sure that xdr adds True Value to customers and and as part of that what we've done is integrated XTR implemented the response part of xdr using falconfusion our solar framework that right that's built into the Falcon platform. So we've we've given it part of platform not as a separate skew no one has to purchase it you have it available.

As soon as you are a falcon customer and XTR is deeply integrating with that leveraging it for all the response capabilities. And the second part is the xdr value is really is in the ecosystem. Which partners are part of it.

How are you doing detections across multiple domains multiple Technologies starting from EDR next but extending it out to all of the other domains. And as part of that this this week, we announced addition of three additional Partners Mentos security. Oh sure for web and and browsing.

Yeah Vectra AI for NBR and Ping Identity for the election. So do all of these areas already have existing partners and we continue to add new partners to keep to deepen it and more importantly cover. The technologies that our customers are each of their Aries.

These are leading that's leading company. That's all that's right. Yeah real real quality stuff there, you know.

So this is I sit here, I observe I don't have to sell product. That's our product. You know, I look at all the xdr buzz here.

Yeah, and I'm not sure if a lot of people have really got their xdr. Story, right right. I think that is there's I mean if you ask multiple people you'll get multiple answers on What xdr even is that's always happens at RSA.

Right? Right because you got a buzz and everyone's running with it and and it becomes extended remember Microsoft you use that there we know extend it. Yes, and that's right extension means a lot of different things.

That's right. Yeah. I mean we've been trying to be very very crisp and clear on our xdr definition.

Yeah, and and really the key focus is to find detections find alerts that one single domain would not have found, right? So take weak signals from multiple different areas from email security from web security from endpoint from casby, but because those weak signals are happening within a short window and they are correlated. You can say, oh there is something really malicious going on here even though Those individually would not alert you right so that that's kind of the idea says a little more mature than some of the stuff.

I've seen running around here. I hope so. Yeah, that's good.

So it sounds like you guys haven't been too busy. Then we are not too big. What about impressions of RSA this week honest has been fantastic.

I mean, I think biggest thing I would say is people have been Super excited about meeting everyone in person. I mean this is two years two plus years. Remember we were here in March 2020 and towards the end of it.

Like people were not shaking hands. They were fist bumping right as as the pandemic was starting and now it's it's fantastic to see everyone here. So I was honestly pleasantly surprised with the with the traffic and the buzz and yeah, I mean that that energy is fantastic.

Keep in mind it still half of what it was still having right? That's right. That's right, but even half of our essay more than anybody's exactly good stuff.

I think that's great. And and then yeah, I mean like obviously we've had a lot of announcements other companies continue to do that. So that is a lot of moment.

So well, look, there's always stuff going on that's right in the cyber world and you know traditionally arts and then maybe black cat this summer. Yes the place where we you know kind of comes together and see it in that's right anyway. Am all thank you very much on our show.

Appreciate it. Hey, we're live here at RSA. It's still quiet for those people on the escalators.

We see we're gonna be live here all day wrapping up our coverage. We hope to see you back on we'll be on in just a few moments. Looking for a live conference focused on the tools Technologies and practices most important to your business inotech conferences are live one day Business and Technology conferences highlighting the latest in trends for it leaders developers and it professionals each event combines education Innovation peer to peer networking and the latest technology and business solutions for a diverse.

It focused audience in a tech conferences occur throughout the year in strategic Regional locations bringing together technology professionals from various Industries to learn about the solutions practices and tools impacting their day-to-day work and gain insight into what's to come presenters at innate conferences are selected and curated to ensure each session provides the most up-to-date and relevant information without any hype whether you're interested in digital transformation cyber security. Cloud it leadership or devops in a tech conferences deliver 2022 events are scheduled to be held in Austin Dallas, Oklahoma City Houston and Washington DC in a tech conferences are produced by Tech strong live and powered by Tech strong group. And I was like, hey, you know, I'm super nervous about this.

What are your tips? And what should I be the service news? Like the second that you stop being nervous before you talk speak publicly.

They need to stop speaking. Because at that point it's no longer passionate for you. The reason why you just so nervous because you care so much about it.

And I think it's really important to be able to recognize. when that is, you know and for me like I think this past year has been up and down. Right and I was still trying to rebuild myself and try to ship back together, but there came a point where the podcast like there were times when I just wanted to hang it up.

You know that I just get frustrated things weren't one of the way I wanted to go. It wasn't enjoyable to the point where you know, I felt like I need to do it and at that point had to take some time off because I was like, there's something wrong and I'm not really sure what is something's off. And then I realized once I took myself out of the picture of other places and just focused on what I enjoyed doing is saying f*** the rest of it.

That's what really helped and I think that it came with the cost, you know, I end up walking away from some chat servers for a while and just focusing on where I wanted to go what I wanted to do not so much where the group went one of these to go but I started this you know, where do I want it, you know? Yeah, so it's not necessarily you don't going down the wrong path, right? I don't want to go down the right path research the fast speed and get burned out either exactly.

So there's nothing wrong with taking that step aside taking time off and coming back. You know. Yeah, you're either pivoting or you're just stepping back and going.

Okay, like you can pivot keep going or you can pivot and say I'm not going to go that way because that's not my goal. That's not my goal. So yeah, I mean I pivot all the time, you know, like you get in this this mind frame that you got to keep going.

Keep going. Keep on content keep on today and you know a lot of times like you keep pushing content, but you could be missing something that could be missing that next Innovation that that may take you. some time to realize and so You know what's wrong with that?

I've done it. Absolutely. Yeah, that was one of the things that I really had to.

learn for myself is you can't push yourself to create content like it has to come from a natural place. It cannot be something that's forced because it shows what you do and I realize that I look back at some of my interviews I was like Appreciate of you, but then I realized it was during a period of time where I just didn't want to be doing it at that period time. as a content creator, you know for me the heart the biggest battle is Staying relevant right it in the early days.

I didn't want to miss a podcast. I did. I didn't want to go a week without a podcast because I felt like if I did I would lose that traction.

I would lose that relevancy and I'll lose those listeners might be right back to square one and I I like people expected me to do a certain day you did you ever go through period time like that. I did I forced, you know weekly podcasts up front because I felt like In this industry, that's the Cadence that I had to follow. I felt like if I did any longer, you know beyond that we would be talking about a breach and I didn't want to put that out months later and you know how aggressive our industry is with with the timeline, so You know, I still I still do that, you know a lot of times I'll put content out when I can put it out and that's really what it comes down to.

You know, I I still have full-time work. I have three kids. So it's really difficult for me to put out an episode.

You know faster than that, I would love to and I try my best to do that. But sometimes it is ever, you know, it is once every two weeks, but I want to you know, I focus on quality too. Yeah, I want to be able to deliver quality and I'm not gonna Rush that so yeah, and I think that's where I like I love like supporting Mike and the haunted hacker because like for me I've thought about it.

Digable times and I just I just I can't I don't want to like there's too many great people. I'd rather support people and a lot of ways, you know, like I feel like I'm a connector and but I also feel like if I did it I would be so intense it would just drive me insane like I'd want to get it out weekly and then I wouldn't be happy with it. And then I would probably go into some mad depression and probably like it would be bad.

Like it's it's like do that to like I'm like now like I'll just like help everybody do it. But like I mean, I don't know I'd rather just hire somebody and social media like for me like I mean along with podcasting like speaking conscious, you know on top of it on top of everything else. It's like You know, you never want to tell anybody know because you don't want to be that person doesn't get.

Asked and so I mean there's so many like pressures we put on ourselves content creators. I think that a lot of people are completely oblivious to and I think I mean, it's really cool that we can talk about this. Hopefully somebody else listen to go.

Well, you know, I'm going for that podcast or let those guys do it. Yeah, just when I are like we're not it's not podcaster against podcaster. Like I'm not in that game at all to know competing with other podcasts or so.

I think this is a great conversation to show. Yeah people that are thinking about that. You know, we're supportive we're supportive.

Yeah, I think a new thing that's happening though is like all the kids now, like everybody wants to be a YouTube content creator like not everybody. Well, I mean, hey, it's great. But like you also can't like not everybody's gonna be there.

It's kind of like a basketball team or football. Like there's a lot of people on a football team not everybody is the quarterback. So like not everybody's gonna get that paycheck.

They think they're gonna make off of it doesn't mean don't try But have realistic expectations, like don't you know, like people are you know, we talk about how like this industry like social media and all this is bad for kids and their mental health right now, you know and like we can't we worked we're trying to push them in. They want to be content creators if they don't make it like what are we doing to these kids? Like that's why avoiding that burnout is so really sure.

Yeah, you have to be persistent. But you also have to know your limitation, but don't you burn out, you know, keep trying you're going to keep improving over time and you know as Mike knows as well when you first start it's like You know is this gonna take off is gonna take off to my expectation, but then it gets back to doing what you love being passionate. So those YouTube creators are doing something that they enjoy doing keep doing it.

Keep doing it. I'm saying if it keeps you off the streets, you keep shutting trouble f****** do it. Yeah.

I remember when I made a thousand subscribers to YouTube. It was just like a couple months ago. I think so, maybe four months.

Yeah. Anyways, it was cool still I was like, oh s***. I have a thousand people who actually listen to my s*** and then I looked at the Spotify results was like, oh wait a minute.

I'm at 50 f****** countries. That's really like, what do people listen to you? Like, how does that come off to that?

But yeah, I think a lot of it is just providing the content and then the reactions I get from people. Coastal shocking, you know when people appreciate what you do because I didn't do this for everybody else in the beginning. I did this for me.

I did this to give back my own way and kind of sort through some s*** that I was going through. And it went from that discussion to a full-blown podcast and those early days. Like you said Manas early days work who crazy bro.

I'm talking like copious analysis of liquor and maybe people maybe people would disappear podcast and pass out. It was crazy. It's crazy.

This guy I think what you said, yeah is the key to longevity though, I think doing it for yourself. Yeah doing it, you know for your love whether you have zero lesson listeners or a million listeners, um, you know with that stop you tomorrow, you know tomorrow if things change with that stop you and you know that I don't have your radio voice Chris definitely has a voice for podcasts for podcasts. Yeah, I tend to hide mine most of times.

Yes, I do Audio Only Mike really? You see he's just audio note never audio. So I have done some.

LinkedIn Live Events LinkedIn live based interviews and I do live shows now too, which is streamed over LinkedIn. So, you know those I have to do with video, but my My standard release for my podcast is audio. Yes, he I was thinking about that from the beginning.

I started off with just video video and audio on YouTube. And then when I found pod server realized I can have it across all the stream platforms. I already started the video piece of it and I was like, wait a minute.

Maybe I should switch back to just audio and then text wrong picked up the video and I was like well f*** that. I just couldn't I just couldn't get down with the editing like with with my concept it would it would be an insane amount of time to edit video like I struggle with the audio piece, but every now and then I I still do audio or I still do video. You know, if this ever, you know, I was ever to able to par latest into full-time, you know, I get more into video.

I'm doing a documentary right now, which is which is video but it's taking way longer than what I wanted to are you doing it yourself or somebody else? Yeah. Oh cool.

What are you doing? I'm doing it on the intersection of AI and cyber badass in the future of AI in cyber. So that's but yeah, it's it's coming along.

It's just like I said not I just don't have the the time to to put into it as I want but it's it'll get there. Yeah, I mean, there's never enough hours in a day all the stuff that I do. I wish I could add another five hours to the 24 that we already have.

Yeah, just so I can get more s*** done. Yeah, but yes, what do you do to balance yourself outside of work podcast all the good. What do you do for Chris to keep that that balance?

That's a small window. It's a very small window. So I have I have three kids.

Let's see 23. 14 and 23 bro 23 20 like 23. Yeah.

How's that possible? I'm far beyond 23. It might my youngest is five.

You know, he keeps me young. And on your toes all my toes. So yeah, that's pretty much where my my time is dedicated to you know outside of that.

You know sleep two or three hours a night and I'm good to go. I soon yes soon. Yeah, very soon just turned eight and like he's all into tablets and gaming okay, wait this gaming and he watches content creators, even though he doesn't play the games like Roblox.

I mean, he plays Roblox but oh, yeah interesting, but I'm trying to like slowly like I just got the doors and breaches. He won't be able to play it but I want is like start showing him those things. Oh, that's the Black Hills.

Yeah. Yeah like and yeah like their little magazine or whatever. So like I get it and like I'm gonna show him and just like just kind of get him because like part of it is I talked to his mom about like hey, like what are you doing for that?

She is good like about you know, locking some stuff up, but she complains about how hard it is, but she goes I know it's supposed to be that hard but God, you know, but at least she's doing that and a lot of parents don't but I mean, it's this is where they're going at. and eight like my five year old watch he'll watch content creators YouTubers. Yeah, um, and I think that's just taken over TV like that is yeah.

Yeah. It's because you Yeah, for sure. So curse weisdeck.

He was one of the guests on the show last year good friend of mine. He was actually on Mr. Beast episode of Mr.

Beast on YouTube. Oh, wow. I was shocked.

I was like, wait a minute. That's like the number one YouTuber. Yes.

Yes. So Kurt Kurtz former FBI. Oops almost drunk.

Okay Curtis former FBI, and they had him on Mr. Beast. And Mr.

Beast was being chased by her, which is pretty cool and at the end, you know, Kirk caught him and got like a ton of cash. But I mean, yeah curse said that it's legit like the production and all this stuff is really cool. I had no idea who Mr.

Beast was until I talked to one of the kids and I was like, what who yeah, that's him on his podcast as I learned about him through Rogan and then I'm looking them. I was like this really the number one YouTuber and I looked him up and and he was I'm yeah. Yeah big time.

So, you know looking back at your guests. I know this is gonna be a s***** question. And I know it's good pointed right back at me.

But who who is your favorite guest which story was like the most interesting or the most interesting episode of your podcast that you remember today? I'll give you the one top of Mind. How is that that there that's fair?

Yes, sir. So the ones you know, the one top of mind is Joe Grant. so Joe Grand was on my show maybe a year ago.

and he goes by the name Kingpin. He's a hardware hacker and he helped start. Oh, we lost you for a second.

Kingpin just took you down. We can't hear you. Your audio smoke you hear me now?

Yeah. That was weird. Yeah froze right as you said Kingpin.

Oh, yeah. So he goes by Kingpin. He's he helped font.

He helped found Loft heavy Industries ice back in the 80s. So he's like super into Hardware hacking in a super cool dude, man, like super great personality and we just got to talk about Hardware hacking and at the end of the interview he was like man, I gotta fly out the LA tomorrow. I'm filming this.

This are you I can't talk about it, but I'm filming this show and it's gonna be big it's gonna be big just keep keeping, you know. You know bookmark. My YouTube is gonna come out and about six months later.

He sent me a link and it was a trailer for a show that he's doing where he's hacking Bitcoin wallets hacked his Bitcoin while it that had like I don't remember how much money in it, but like a million dollars in this Bitcoin wallet, um any acting and he got it. And then the reason this is top of mind for me was because last week. Yeah, he did it again.

And I think I posted it on YouTube. So if you haven't checked it out. Check it out.

This this. Kingpin is an absolute beast. And this guy he came in he was like, I got six million dollars in Bitcoin on the Samsung Galaxy 3 because I bought it in 20 14 or whatever.

I clean. I don't remember my swipe pattern to get back into the phone. So basically, you know, I won't go through the whole story.

But Joe Grand goes in and he basically hacks the Samsung S3 gets retrieves this white pattern from the file system and I'll let you watch it to see if he recovers a six billion. But he's still doing it man. He's still doing it.

And again just a great awesome dude, and he's gonna come back. I told him I paint them after I watch as like you gotta come back now, let's talk about this because that's what he does. Now.

He he hacks Bitcoin while it's for He's trying to get more because it's not a common. It's not a common issue that you run into but he's trying to get more into Bitcoin while at hacking. So anybody out there you only have what if you take a percentage one percent off of six million, you know, like that's that's all right pay day.

Yeah for sure. Yeah and people are willing to pay that because if and it's I think it's more common than not. I just don't think a lot of people realize that they have it.

Yeah people that may have invested it, you know long ago, but Episode 30 Kingpin check it out. Um definitely a check that out for sure. I do a lot of mobile hacking.

So I love anything that's good mobile phones or any apps on the old phones. Like that's that's my bread and butter. I really really enjoy it.

I think my most interesting guest and the most entertaining that I've had they've all been really great really entertaining but Captain zap Ian Murphy by far the captain was probably the most epic couple episodes. I've got that that man means his stories his life in general just fascinates and there's nothing better than the old grandpa. Who's yeah crazy to learn but fun as hell and that's that's Ian Murphy.

He's not doing too good health wise, but he's a great I think this the underlying story. With everyone you talk to is key like everybody, you know has their their unique path coming through. But just being able to extract that from people and getting to know them as a person.

Yeah that's important for me to put through today audience. I always tell people like one of the parts of podcasts and I really enjoy is making new friends because some people I may not run into you know, I may not cross Pathways but the conversations we have it's like forever because it's a really cool conversation and they know what's going towards a good cause yeah giving back is really important. But on top of all that I think is podcasters.

We're leaving a historical documentation video and audio of what s*** was like for us, right? So I was curious fairly new if you look back at the medical issue, right or even Medical Care. And you look back at some of the the old stories about what medicine was first starting out as service were using cocaine on people to numb certain spots or number and there's that a little bit of documentation books and stuff.

But think about what's gonna be like for us like a hundred years with cypress tree evolves and something else if people were back go. Oh s***. We have hours upon hours of podcasts of these people that build all this s***.

Yeah. I mean to me to me, I think it's valuable. You're helping build that I think about what we've been through and like I I thought about before my grandmother passed like she was 90 something.

I mean 90 years how technology has changed. I mean like what you dial phones on a wall with a cord and like kids these days are like what the hell like, how is this possible? Like they don't understand.

I mean that's how rapidly is changed. And so I mean it's it's gonna be pretty freaking amazing to see what you know, The next hundred years like oh, yeah, not even 100 like look at look at how fast Technologies moves and I don't want to sound like conspiracy. There's but if you look back at Roswell right in Area 51 in a crash after Roswell, New Mexico the amount of technology that the US military government have developed just in a short period time.

We're talking 40 years. We're not even talking like 100 years or you know, 200 years. We're talking about a very short window and we advance that far.

Imagine what's gonna be like In 90 years like that just blows my mind, you know as a kid. Atari was to me that was like a huge, you know advancement technology. Like I just place it on my TV.

And now kids doing their phones. Yeah, it's just it's amazing. You can't get better than this you kids that are the digital natives playing these games on their phone, like think about like how our brains started going like, you know pinging off that like our parents didn't have right.

So like they didn't they had maybe a TV or whatever and like as a child, like what we absorb is so intense, right? So, I mean what these kids will be able to come up with like absolutely nuts. I mean there may already start you 15 20% of their break, they're already out of control though.

The kids are already way up and part of me really hates it because I hate you can suffer like that but part of me is is almost glad because I get to Mentor those kids I get to help those kids because if they were left to their own devices and instruction at school and parents, we would have a world full of cyber criminals like 40 years. Yeah. Yeah, but the good thing is they're getting identified quick and you know, they're being handed off for mentoring.

It's like that which is really cool. I had a great time with Dan Kelly. You should have done killing your show.

He was when we did talk. Um, I talked to him. Oh he did.

I don't talk to him. They had Dan Kelly. Yep, good good.

He's really tinted when it comes to doing a podcast. It's really hesitant about it. But I keep encouraging.

Yeah got a great story, you know, you're doing great things and people need to know that you've made that change. You know, I think that's really important for you know, the kids I work with this to come out show. Hey, look, I'm not that same person.

Yeah, give me a f****** job. Yeah, very industry is our industry is so Infamous at wanting to have that mystique and that hacker and a hoodie to take to all the potential clients, but then when it boils down to it, it's time to hire somebody like that, you know, wait a minute, you know. It's a I'm trying to help change that and I think it's important.

So yeah, like besides besides podcasts besides work, you know, what are your other passions besides your kids and your family and your work. Is there anything to make Chris take a minute and and go into something by himself. What is it that keeps you in the game?

Oh man, like I said man, it's a small window. Am I the only one that works 24 hours a day? No, no, definitely.

I think I work 25 and a day. I think I've had time sweet. Um, sweet.

I mean anything that's technology. That's that's Cutting Edge really is interesting to me. I like I have a 3D printer, you know, I really print time to time.

And damn it. I'm I mean really, that's it man. I just got a Jeep Wrangler.

So I'm having fun at that some off-road s***. Just some off-road s*** man. We've been doing some camping which is cool.

And I think that's important to point out is that If you stay immersed behind a screen all day like you have to get out like you have to get out and I think that that's sort of my outlet is just you know, taking a family camp in. Just getting Outdoors getting some fresh air and just to reset, you know, I mean, even if you're passion is behind a screen you still have to reset. Yeah, so you give your eyes a break or else you'll have to wear these trendy glasses and you're not cool that you have these types.

Right right making took a long time. Yeah exactly making old look. Good in 2022.

But 3D printing yeah, I love 3D printing. I've got two printers. Actually three two of them are cranking away right now, but actually started business on accident.

Start printing something. I thought well just throw it up on as you see what happens bro. It's been non-stop orders as I started.

Like I paid my burners. I pray for my prayers probably four times in one month. That's awesome.

So selling original designs Some of them. Yeah. Okay, but the highest selling one right now is a Gothic lantern that I present the entire thing the inside the outside the chains the post put on the wall.

Yeah. I just love the link man. Somebody want to check it out having printed anything in a while.

So that'll give me an excuse to start printing again. I love printing man. It was just the idea like about it in December last year.

He talked me into it. So I've been waiting for a long time because we all know three pretty first start out furnished back and this was like early 2000s and three first use but those printers like 10 grand. Peace it holy not my pleasure.

So I thought I'll wait for three praying until they're affordable. So my boss got one and he contacts. Hey, bro.

She does only how much they cost you 10 grannies like 250 bucks. I was like, oh you son of a b****. Just had to go out and get it.

But yeah, we did say with me. I wasn't the first to get one either like I had a co-worker that got one and he brought in. You know this Cube that he printed or whatever I said.

Oh man. That's awesome. And then I got hooked man.

I think I'm on my I'm either on my second or third printer. Yeah right. Now what kind of prayer do you have?

Right now I got a FL Sun Pro. It's it's a Delta printer and I love it because it's got the auto leveling. It's very, you know, and it's um, but it's also easy to work on too.

So if you have to swap out You know print nozzle. It's not not difficult do the bed leveling when they came out with the BL touch CR touch for the Ender crealities that totally changed the game the bed level used to pissed me off so bad when I first got my printer because you could never get it just right there'd always be one corner. That was just f***** or something it is.

Okay you relate to this. Did you have a 3D printer now? No, the only one I've ever used is in the the museum up in the science museum in Chicago and they have a lab and I went in there.

I still have my little thing and like it looks like a little alien but whatever. Nice, so there's a new printer coming out and it's not it's not storage yet. A guy from MIT created.

I just saw a video on it this week. It's literally of that. Full of this Joe it's almost like the consistency of hand sanitizer and then the printing nozzle goes into the gel.

Mm-hmm. And it actually prints freeform inside the jars it out. Yes with no.

It doesn't carve it out. It uses the gel as sort of like a pool and the filament and the nozzle all like one scope it goes down into it. So it cools it on impact, right?

So it binds it together and it happened like praying service surface happen to be level. Yeah, bro. This s*** is suspended.

It's yeah. Interesting, so he might MIT came out with it. I just saw the video.

I don't know. It's probably way off from being on shelves, but the idea is suspension praying I think is Fabulous because the printing surface alone on some of these printers it's not very big and printing space is optimal for cash is super expensive. Oh, yeah.

Yeah and I was gonna say that that would be a really good use for like, you know, when they get to get around to that like the organs and stuff like that that they're talking about for like Hospital use and you know veins and stuff like that. Like that'll be super you have to have zero error more error of margin when yeah about that so but yeah, I think that's And and you see them? You ever see the 3D printed houses?

Oh, yeah. Yeah and the guns and the motorcycles all kinds of yeah. Same thing they have full-on competitions on three print guns, which I thought was just today.

Oh, there's a doctor here. I knew about the guns like because that's you know, that's been a big thing for a long time. I still want like and I this is terrible.

I still want like an ice thistle like back in the day the molds or whatever. I just want it because it's supposedly works. I'm like, I want to see one in action like there's this thing work.

So we're at the end of the hour. It's gone by so f****** quick dude. It's been it's been a pleasure having you on it's been a real honor to have you so thank you for that.

You might thanks for having me on man. And and I'd love to get you on barcode at some point. We can show anti-government or whatever is in your lane, man.

Let's talk Androids. Let's do that. Let's do that.

Yeah, so it's been a pleasure and we can do for you. Let us know and before we start off any last words for listeners for new people in cyber that you think is super important. Listen, so haunted hacker and barcode and you will be automatics.

That's all that matters do it. Right right on well, I'll catch you guys later. It's been great and we'll talk to you guys next weekend.

Yes. Thank you guys. I appreciate it take here Hi everybody Welcome.

You've joined the open Mainframe show glad to have you here. You probably have guessed. I'm not Alan Shimmel and don't look anything like them though.

He and I've worked together for a long time or business partners friends Etc. But I'm stepping in just filling in for Alan while he's doing some traveling this week and a great pleasure because you know, I've been a good part of my career in the Mainframe environment. It's fun to be talking about what's happening and all the great things and but the best part of it is to get to talk with this panel this group of people and co-host John murtic.

How you doing John? I am doing fabulous here and and my lovely office throughouted by all these computers staring at me here. How could you not be I feel like I'm you know going to the computer Museum almost, you know, I'm not quite really far back, but you're fairly recently.

Yeah vintage stuff. It's funny, you know awesome how people are collecting and refurbishing and restore. It's kind of like the classic car version of Back industry, right exactly exactly everything everything comes back around in time.

Yes. Absolutely. Well, we've got a great panel here and I again we'll get right to that.

So Stacy, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do at Susa Absolutely, I'm Stacy. My alarm was Susan. I'm one of the product marketing managers here.

responsible for ourselves on Z product and our red dressy product and I am also on the this great open Mainframe project board as the marketing co-chair and I get to work with this great panel, and I'm super excited about the conference coming up. Awesome. Fantastic Elizabeth you kick things in next introduce yourself.

Yeah, hi. My Elizabeth Kay Joseph and I am a developer advocate. Open source has always been you know for decades has been incredibly important to IBM and in general in the mains Mainframe space like there's open source has been a thing before open source had a name in the Mainframe space and IBM is always been very deep into that.

So it's really exciting to be part of this project and part of the upcoming Summit. Um in in my role in the open Mainframe project, I do a bit of work on the softer Discovery tool as well as the Linux distributions working group. Fantastic.

How about you Jacob? Also within the broth com. I'm a product owner a responsible for the API mediation layer, and I'm very excited to present few sessions on the open Mainframe Summit and I'm doing this as a Zoe chair, so I'm responsible for the most popular open source project on the platform at the moment.

And it's exciting work and exciting future coming. I love the conversation. We're talking about Mainframe and open source and Summit.

So fantastic, you know, we're talking about the open Mainframe Summit that's going to be happening is part of the convene conference coming up and Philly on September 21 and 22 John you I'm sure everybody in our audience may be most everybody's for about convene. Could you sort of set the stage about what convene is and what we're doing for Vegas for the first time right with open Mainframe Summit is happening as part of that kind of a Meetup as part of the event. Yeah, so on this event, you know, this is actually the third year of the event but the first two years we had this little thing called covid that they kept us having the conference and places like this here.

But so for the first time we are all getting together in person in Philadelphia at the convene center. It's really designed to sort of an event that brings together the the Mainframe community and the open source community and that convergence because what we're seeing more and more is that the future of open of the future of Mainframe is really driving towards open source, and and more importantly we're seeing as Enterprises continue to be very forward thinking they're seeing they already are investing in open source, and they're seeing bringing their Mainframe into that Circle but using open source as that Gateway into it and we see that with projects like Zoe and fail long and a number of other ones we work with here. So it's a really un Opportunity that brings together these great audiences this year is a really interesting Focus for US security has been a huge thing on our Collective radar for the past year or so and particularly when it comes to things like supply chain security and you know, really understanding where your software is coming from and the Mainframe world that's really always been a very important concept because you know, these these systems power our society, you know, these mainframes go down less than to see who's our board chair with joking say, hey John with the mainframes go down planes fall out of the air, you know Commerce stops all of this and he's and he's not entirely wrong because so much of the backbone versus idle infrastructure a lot relies on it.

And as as we're starting to see all of that become so more interconnected understanding your software becomes really important understanding best security practices becomes really important. And so we're seeing that as a really really big Focus event along with things of looking towards the future Workforce great projects like Zoe diversity in a number of other topics. So it's it's a it's a fabulous way.

Our community gets to come together build some great networking build some really nice opportunities for co-mingling and you know, it's it's great for us. We can actually get together in person. We've been waiting for this for three years.

Well, it's about time right? Yes. It's literally too.

We are still a virtual component as well. But we do you can be in person in Philly. and John I was just going to say, you know, it's it's so key that we're talking about security because you know Susan just recently did a survey and 45% of Enterprises.

Are there's saying that 45% of Enterprise will have experienced some kind of Cyber attack by the year 2025. and 53% of decision makers are really they're continuously monitoring their supply chains, especially your software Supply chains for critical vulnerabilities because cyber attacks have just really risen in the last two and a half years. It's yeah the cyber attacks.

I love stats like that because my view is probably most of those organizations have already been attacked. They just don't we don't talk about it. We're being more open about it.

I mean it is so prevalent. You're jumping in I think Jacob. Yeah, it was just wanted to say that this is what we are seeing with zoeia as well like the exact and decision makers are coming and saying Hey, how do you do this security?

Is it good enough? Are these things somewhere visible? How when can we learn?

What do you do and why? So like what you are saying is exactly what we are also saying on the project level. Yeah, and speaking in the open source side of things.

There are still questions about the security around open source. And so I love that. This is the theme this year because we want to just come out in the Forefront with that and say like yes, this is secure where we're making efforts to make sure that the software is secure with some of the new initiatives that the Linux Foundation is having the projects do And I think I think the marriage of what, you know companies like Susan IBM are doing with open source and the hardware that IBM is coming out the Z16 platform.

That marriage is really key to the security of these companies. Interesting. So say a little bit more about the the relationship of Open Source into this kind of software stack of the Mainframe environment.

It's because there might be a perception of it's it's kind of a new or add-on. My view is this much more. It's really a critical part of the stack just as much as it is in virtually any other environment agree.

Yeah, and I kind of hinted at this in the beginning it's you know, through our communities and organizations like share which has been around since the 1950s there has always been a collaboration of software and and tooling and really development of the software on the Mainframe even if it wasn't necessarily called open source, and some of it was, you know, not open source, but there's always been this collaboration Community there. And then now it's kind of just leveled up whereas like with a lot of the modernization efforts a lot of what's being driven. There is open source software.

Yeah, I don't want to sound like I disagree but with the ndas around everything that touches Mainframe like some some parts of a development in open source around Mainframe is really painful occasionally. And you know just from a serious perspective again, you see a lot of access been around for a long time and we've been partners by being more than 20 years. So we've really been a big proponent of Open Source on the Mainframe.

Yeah, that's certainly not new to the Mainframe. I mean it's been been involved with the Mainframe. I think well, wait at least a better part of my career for sure.

I'm curious to who what were the last two open source Summits like and what do you think will be different in addition to being in person and having the theme be security this year? Maybe John, that's a good one for you to think. Maybe I'll kick it off and then I I would really like, you know the feedback from All Views.

I mean you've been to the the first two editions as well so you can provide some great contexts. You know, I I think our our first year we were all sort of in a bit of a pandemic year and it was really just highlighting this community was there and what it looks like cuz I don't think anybody's been able to really put a finger on it. And the first time of it really coming together showcasing what it's all about showcasing a lot of the great projects and work that's happening.

I think was a really eye-opening for a number of folks and it really it really started Propel a lot continued technical investment by new organizations new projects and things like that coming out of it, which is just very similar to what we see a lot of times with events, you know, you get people together the smart people together and cool stuff happens. And and that's really what our goal is to put these sort of space is together. And I think last year we just continued to build upon that Trend but also starting to look at how this industry is changing from A diversity standpoint from an age standpoint.

We're seeing new people come into this space and really starting to highlight that there's a big transformation beginning to happen. And it's it's one half. It's one part of the people but it's another part of the tools and Technologies and really starting to kind of take everyone mentally forward to that next area.

But then also seeing how that inner connects with other areas of Open Source and we had a great keynote from Tracy Regan who is the executive director for the CD Foundation which really dug into how devops in the main primary connected. We had, you know Keynotes on cloud native in the Mainframe connected together. Um, and you know, it's really funny because you said on the outside and you think oh geez, like how do these fit together?

Well with open source it all. Fit together and Enterprises are thinking this way. So it was a great sort of transformational step forward to how do those other communities?

How do these other Technologies play in here? And then I think this year then it builds upon that of like here's the collective thing that we're all wrestling with the security and that's really where that next piece comes in there. But I I really want to hear from all of you because you've been here since the beginning too.

And what do you what would you think I mean was that an accurate representation? Yeah, John, I think one of the things I'm super excited about this conference and being in person is really seeing the generational. Collaboration because you do have people but I think will become into the conference that I've been in the Mainframe space for you know, 20 30 years and then you've got college kids that are also really interested in the new technologies like what's going on in Cloud native.

What's going on in containers? How do you translate that into the Mainframe space? So I think that collaboration of generations is going to be a really exciting part of the conference.

I'm also really looking forward to what we call the hallway track. Just you know, just getting to see people again in person because the last two Summits they were really Exceptional from a technical level. Like I learned a lot at the sessions.

It was really valuable but it's sort of you know, we we kind of had some chat but it's it's not the same as being there in person and just meeting with people and I had a I had a taste of this because John when I first met you I think was at the open source Summit. There was a mini Summit for the open Mainframe project in 2019, and that I mean that was one of my introductions to the Mainframe community and it was I mean, it wasn't it wasn't very big but it was it was formative for me because it allowed me to actually sit and meet people and start to get an understanding of what people were looking for in the open source space and I you know that that has been missing in these virtual events. So I'm very excited to see everyone in Philadelphia.

Yeah, well, it's a theme like the main differences. We will see each other. We will have time to chat drink a beer together and after finally after a few years working together.

Like decisions will be like maybe better maybe worse maybe the same but ultimately difference is gonna be that you will have the time around them and that you also have all the time that indicated to the to the conference. So like you will see even sessions that you didn't know that there are interested in for you. Yeah, I love Elizabeth the hallway tracks.

That's for sure. Yeah the hallway track idea. That's a perfect description.

I think when you get back together you realize how much we miss that and how valuable it really is. It's great to do things online and virtual but boy, that's that's so valuable. You get so much done.

You make so much kind of progress relationships business all of that stuff. You know, I'd like to kind of tease apart security, you know secures a very wide broad topic and what do you what do you anticipate some of the things that we are going to be talking about? I mean, you mentioned supply chain.

That's a big topic. Of course in security World, maybe Jacob from a Zoe perspective. What do you think?

Some of the conversations are going to be about for security in addition to supply chain? Well in general the team is just left like we are moving an integrating the security in our like development processes. We are integrating in exploring solutions to make sure that the security is not edited as another layer, but it's just baked in into the process.

But and I think that lots of the discussions are going to be about how far is it possible to get in the open source how good the results are and what we can do better. And not just us as a project. Like I think that within Zoe we are doing quite a good job around this and trying to share all this information.

But also what we do around all of our dependencies and whether it be even know what they are and how they are doing their job. so this is definitely the biggest biggest part that from my side. apart from IBM perspective Elizabeth I mean Stacy had already mentioned like the you know the tide from from hardware and software in in how that plays into security and and one of the things that I've been seeing increasingly is the Linux distributions themselves, you know, tying more even more into that Hardware because I think it's You know a lot of it was written more with COs in mind, but as the Linux distributions are adding more things to the kernel and more things are being put Upstream.

There's just a tremendous amount of support for the Mainframe today for security on Linux as well. And then the other component of this is Really like the modernization story and when companies are looking to the cloud. What is their security story there?

What are their options? And we now have Mainframe offerings in in the cloud. And so that's that's an interesting story there as well.

Yeah, I'm just to play out that. I know one of the Keynotes is going to be you know about. Zero with zero trust in mind so I think just that whole how do you take these?

Newer disruptive Technologies and keep them safe. You know container security microservices security all of that cloud native that is a big Topic in general, of course, and then they're talking about doing that in a Mainframe or combined environment, right? You know, it's interesting you one of the things that I can't remember who mentioned this but maybe it was you Jacob.

It's always fun to talk about the least attacks and the threats and the threat landscape and things like that but a lot of security discussions are what you mentioned Jacob just talking about what you are doing from a security standpoint, you know, we're through the development process the distribution to code even the people Education and Training and skills that right that's super valuable right there. I mean you can walk away with a lot of really good ideas and information to go back to your your team your company your environment say this is something we can do and and frankly I feel much better. I know even more about all the things that are being done.

So I'm you know, instead of a black box. I have an idea what's happening for security and the hardware the software the OS Etc. Well, great.

Let's I'd love to hear some more about the diversity equity and inclusion. It's it's an it's a super important topic is being talked about, you know in the security world, you know how we continue to develop and lift up people and bring people into into the environment. In their careers and open open up the field to more people.

How do you view diversity Equity inclusion in the kind of Mainframe open source environment, you mentioned Stacy that you know, not news that we have some folks that have been doing this for a while. Right? So we have the age diversity covered.

I think pretty well what are some of the things that Community either is doing or maybe needs to do to help continue to make progress. but I think you know part of it is is projects like the open Mainframe project really are they're welcoming projects we welcome. Women, you know people of color you diverse groups into the society and we give them the tools to learn the Technologies.

So I think you know a conference like the open Mainframe summer kind of Builds on that where You know you it's not just you know. it is a diverse group that's going to own to come and we we try to bring people along with us with some of the newer technologies that appeal to this, you know, the younger generation the the more diverse generation also say that that meeting people where they are has been really important to a lot of the work that I do and I mean this in regards to the type of folks that we Outreach to in things like the Franklin apprenticeship programs and at universities one of the organizations, I recently worked with it works with mothers who are reentering the workforce whether or not they have a technical background and we work with organizations who can help them get onboarded on Mainframe skills. We also work with veterans group.

So we're we're bringing in veterans and getting them training through apprenticeship programs and that it turns out it naturally creates diversity and in terms of gender and and racial diversity and even Geographic diversity and that has been you know, like a key push and I think we're starting to see the impact of that at our events which is exciting to see a place like share. I don't really have that much to add like we are trying to build the well-working community in Zoe and I'm rather sure that as far as geographically and in plenty of other race, we are succeeding but That's it. You know more things that's really kind of connected with me that I've heard multiple times is when someone is isn't is in a group that hasn't been represented before and they see someone like themselves and what other dimensions that is saying.

I see some what they're up. They're giving a keynote talk who I can connect with because you know, whatever it is or I see someone in a role. I see some starting in open source project.

I see people that are like myself and that tells me tells them that I can do this too. And really it's amazing the power of that. I mean, I think I told never really appreciated the value of that alone of that tells each of us and tells a larger community that may not know that yet that it is not only possible.

We want it. We we're looking for it. We want to bring you in to be part of that Community.

I mean John I have to believe that's an important part of the Linux foundation and you know your lead Trip that you're bringing through the open Mainframe project. Oh, absolutely. I mean if you look at all of our projects, you know, we firmly believe that with diverse groups you get better outcomes and you bring a larger Community together and it really starts to Showcase, you know, the power of more the power of different opinions the power of different backgrounds, you know, a number of our projects have diversity focuses, you know, we participate and the making our strong Community stronger initiative here within the Mainframe space, you know in an additionally even at this event just like all the next foundation events.

We really spend a lot of time making sure it can be a very welcoming place. You know, we we drive to make sure that all of our panels have, you know diverse people and you know female representation on that, you know, we spend a lot of time looking at our schedule and looking at our speaker lineup and making sure we're getting people from different backgrounds different genders races. The cities last year, we actually achieved the chaos Group, which is one of project Linux Foundation set requirements for you know diverse events.

We actually achieved a gold badge last year. We're applying for it this year. We're still in the process.

I'm hoping we turn out the same way, but we put a lot of effort into it and even on site we were holding a diversity luncheon on the first day, which is hosted by broadcom, which is really an opportunity for those groups to come together. You know, it's not just you know for you know for women minorities, but it's really for everyone who has a ton of interest in really making sure that this space is one that can continue to grow but continue grow to bring others in as a part of it and you know, that's that's really, you know, just what we're seeing out there and it's it's exciting. Seeing that it's you know, I I love to see sort of communities like this start to see that as really an important facet and this one is no shortage of that.

I think it's a big factor in the growth of the community too. It's huge. It's a big difference, you know kind of a sort of funny correlation here you think about inclusion this is both an in-person and virtual event.

And I know that you're doing some things to make the virtual experience, you know, just as valuable and and part of the entire event. I mean including things like mentorship talking about what things are happening and open Mainframe project and working groups things like that in anybody want to just say anything about if you're joining virtually. Here's what you might expect to see and and experience there.

Well, I could just say from the platform aspect. The platform we're using is the same one. We use across the number of other Linux foundation events, because a lot of great feedback on it and you know Being virtually it is not going to be the same as being in person.

There's no doubt about it. But we really do try our hardest to help bridge a lot of that Gap making sure that all of our sessions you can watch live through the platform. You can provide feedback to speakers during it all of our sponsors in addition to having booths there at the event.

They will also have virtual booths available. So you'll be able to interact, you know with them as well. And there's just also just a number of great, you know collaboration, you know forums and things like that that are part of the flat platform that you'll be able to leverage and we actually will probably have a few of our speakers that will actually be presenting remotely two people in person.

So there's gonna be a little bit of that dynamic as well. I mean, we're we want to we we really want to make sure that this is an event and I think you know Mitch. I'm sure you're seeing across a lot of events is the appreciation for that virtual audience not Not really just because a covid but just because it can be very difficult for a number of reasons for people to attend events in person.

Whether that would just be a funding aspect of family aspect a number of other you know pieces as well. I think we're really fortunate to be able to provide this opportunity and we're hoping that just continues to bring in and even greater Community into these events and and with that it's even a little bit of lower cost to be able to tend that way which I know can be easier on people that might not have a lot of the financial backing. But I mean this seriously given that the rate of flight cancellations and less less luggage, you may find yourself stuck somewhere and so you can still attend.

Right right. I think for some people they might even hurt that way. I hope it doesn't happen.

But you know, it's not I hope not I hope not you sorry Stacey. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

I didn't mention dropping but I would just say as an intended if you're coming as an attendee and virtually. Go to the sessions. The the speakers will be there.

Ask questions use the chat features. As somebody who's presented some of these virtual conferences we want to hear from you. So if you're coming to the conference virtually please participate it's it's You know, we want to answer your questions we want to.

We want to give you know, give you the information that you need to you. Take it back to your industry your your company and be successful. So, you know, don't be afraid to ask the questions that you would ask if you were in person.

Take advantage of you what that makes me think of Stacy oftentimes events will have programs or at least some planning around first time attendees. How do you create that welcome your experience? So there aren't overwhelmed by a big event.

And so many things going on. What should I do? What where do I go?

Where should I spend my time? I haven't done this before given we have so many people joining the community. Why don't we do that is a kind of a wrap-up question what recommendations that each of us have if you're gonna be in person you have some great ones for virtual too.

If you're a newcomer either, that's the first time or you've been to very many of these. How do you get the best experience Elizabeth you mind starting out? Yeah.

I I just want to encourage people to say hello to other people and don't be too shy like I am I'm terribly shy in person and it's, you know, just getting out of my my shell and getting out of my comfort zone and you know, sometimes you'll see people talking like, oh, I don't know if I'm welcome over there, but just Boston and say hello, it's fine. And it's even you know, if it is people who are you know work, you know standing there with people from their company like it's it's helpful and everyone is quite welcoming at these events and I think you'll have some really good conversations and it's it's way better than just going back into going into a corner and just being quiet. I mean if that's you that's okay, too.

Third you'd like. Don't don't feel like you're being an imposition. We're all there to meet each other and talk.

You've been on a session leave the people in the room there is at least one topic that you share apart from the fact that you like open Mainframe and the fact that you have something to do with mainframes and open source. So just go there ask talk. Yeah, I mean I would just Third that right?

I mean you're going to the event make, you know, make the best use of your time go talk to people talk to. You talk to your colleagues talk to your friends, you know talk to people you don't know use the hallway track and talk to people that as you walk down the hallway. Yeah, you never know where you're gonna pick up and I think people are just a lot more welcoming than you might think they are.

Yes, and and if and if you're not sure look at their badge everyone we do this on all of our elf events, which I think is a really cool thing. You can have a little tag on it. That is like green yellow or red green means.

Yeah talk to me. I love to talk to people yellow is, you know a little bit I guess stranger danger. If you know me talk to me about otherwise not in red is, you know, please leave me alone.

Um, so, you know, definitely make sure you're expecting people's communication, but also know that if you're coming there and you're a little shy there's a way to communicate that without, you know, being rude or kind of getting yourself into an uncomfortable position. The thing I would add is I think at least I do I think many of us approach these things feeling a little bit inadequate. Like I'm I know I'm not smartest one there.

I don't want to ask a dumb question. I don't want people to know what I don't know some, you know certain things or whatever but but everybody's going there to learn right, you know, it's going there to to have fun. Yes, we're having fun and connect with people but you're you're going to learn stuff whether you're the keynote expert guess what the keynote expert is in an expert at everything they're there to learn too or you're you're new to it and one things I found is I've been surprised to find is that when you ask a question, there's probably a dozen other people who had the exact same or very similar question and they like you were not sure confident about asking it.

So, you know, it's if the the fear of not knowing don't worry about it. We all don't know a lot a lot of things that were there to learn so and they'll be other people appreciate by you bringing it up. Talking to the speaker going to them microphone or putting it in chat.

It's it's like a speaker since Well, you know the speaker secret if you don't know the answer is like talk to me after that. Easy out I've used before Mike because I don't really know the answer to that but I will find out and talk to you about just getting a little bit. You know, I'd actually did have one more question and maybe maybe John at the at the end here you can kind of take us out with a message to folks that we hope will attend there if there been surprises something you didn't expect to happen that maybe one of the last conferences that we went to you know, I went to expecting this to happen and I met up with these people.

I worked with 10 years ago or you know, I got involved in a project. They had no plans on doing any any sort of you unexpected pleasant surprises that might have happened. Oh, I don't really know what to say.

That's why I was quiet. No. Okay.

Anybody have one? Repeat what I said before about like just talking to people and remembering how valuable it is just to meet people in person at the event and I'm always surprised by the conversations. I have the connections that I make that I didn't expect.

It really is tremendously important thing. Yeah, I'm just gonna second that that the you know again, I'm gonna use the word the term hallway hallway track because I think that really is some of the most important conversations. I've had been walking down the hallway and just, you know, having that five-minute conversation and it spark something and you're off and running.

Yeah. You know, but I've also been surprised it. I forgot that I walk away with action items and to do's and things I was gonna follow up on right whether it's I'm talking to you for years and let's go to this or new new communities new people or vendors or whatever.

It might be. There's always there's always stuff after the event that helped carry forward whatever you got from it as well. Well, John open Mainframe Summit, Philadelphia, September 21st and 22nd, right?

org you can head right to the website. You can see the full schedule. You can register if your company we have three great sponsors represented here IBM broad common suse which we'll have boots at the event.

There's some of our leading sponsors and we really thank them, you know for that stewardship and that, you know, their commitments to these communities, but we also have sponsorship opportunities available. If you're a company that's thinking this might be an audience for you. We got places for you, but more importantly we really we just want to see you whether you know, it's in person would be great.

And if it's virtual that that's even great too because there's some amazing content that's gonna be driven here. There's me some great connections and some likely some pretty fun announcements too that we're working on. So keep an eye toward.

Number and some new news. Yeah, that's exciting, too. Well, great.

It's been fun doing this open Mainframe session with all of you show with each of you. I was real privileged to get to fill in for Alan. I'm gonna kind of keep him busy more welcome back.

You'll have me and Mitch. It's okay. Great.

You've been very very gracious, too. Thanks for kind of keep me going guide me. Keep me on track here with with our conversation.

So we really really appreciate everybody joining us and listening in watching in today, and we do hope you will participate in the summit either online or in person you will be surprised the Great Value that you'll get from it, and I doubt you'll be disappointed my African. I know you won't be so join us there and please join us for our next episode of the open Mainframe. Thank you John.

Thank you Linux Foundation. Thank you to all your companies for Your sponsorship with that event and help you come back and be on a panel with us again, too. you are you This is digital anarchist.

Hey, welcome back to kubecon cloud nativecon in Valencia Spain. I got a great crew here from stormforge. It's great to be talking with you, but I don't think I've had either one of you on one of our sessions before so yeah, what a better way than to break you in it at kubecon and you know, absolutely in Spain, you know, go for it.

So Tom introduce yourself tell us a little bit about you and then Patrick will have you do that too far from Tom Ellery. I run worldwide field operations, which includes customer success Revenue a host of other things with the technical side then with stormforge now a little over a year. I've got six start ups under my belt been in high tech for probably shouldn't say this but close to 35 almost 40 years.

Yeah. We stop caring at 30. Thank you.

So edit that out, please good plus is what we say. Okay, Patrick Yeah, Patrick Bergstrom on the new CTO at stormforge not quite as much experience there is Actually my first startup before that I was with the Enterprise Fortune 10 Best Buy United Health Group all kinds of fun things and I've been here for six weeks. So still getting my feet underneath me meeting the lots of customers doing a lot of travel.

It's been a lot of fun. This is the fast part of the river. Yeah, it's just different pace I totally get so one of you tell folks about stormforce just you know, we've had you all on before and talked about some very cool things that you're doing.

But if you want to yeah, I'll let Patrick Wayne. He didn't give it from kind of a customer's perspective. I'll give it kind of from the market perspective.

So the one thing great about storm forts, we start looking at kubernetes we've gone there's a fairly fair amount of complexity when people start deploying applications in a cloud native environment and people are struggling today to try to figure out how they manage costs with performance. Our platform is an optimization platform that allows you to actually look at those trade off and not have to give one or the other away in Balance those two between cost performance which ultimately also leads to quality of code coming out ensuring you get your releases out on time and making sure you don't run into critical resource stories as you're deploying applications inside of a cloud native environment. It's Important promise space because I didn't remember just going to the cloud.

It's sort of a leap of faith of how much do I need? I'm not buying Hardware but you know is this stuff going to suddenly max out my credit card overnight or my you know, my invoice or whatever. Yeah, it got same thing with kubernetes.

It consumes a bit of resources and you need it to when you need it. You not all the time. Right?

I think the interesting so I've worked in virtualization for a while the thing that you saw in virtualization with trying to balance Resources with the deployments of applications is now accelerating with kubernetes. And so we're almost repeating the same issues that we had early on. We're here we've never done that I understood and so we're trying to get ahead of that curve where you're more proactive than reactive in solving the problems that customers are going to have and they just don't have visibility when they're gonna happen.

Yeah, we talk a lot about helping teens accelerate their day to operations, right because it's like you said kubernetes is very complicated the number of configurations that exist there that you have to know what it does. Crazy and that's one of the things that actually really drew me to storm Forge as a customer. And then also now obviously as their CTO is it's true machine learning and so that helps us eliminate the human bias, which I think is fantastic because there's been more than one occasion where we've made a recommendation for a configuration and the human behind it said well, why would we change that that doesn't make any sense and then they tried it sure enough huge performance impact.

It's it's been fantastic. It's really interesting. Yeah, it's something too in.

I remember appointing my career not every developer thinks about tuning right like the Java virtual machine or whatever environment you this kind of resources and resources and they'll be more when I need it. Which yeah, that's nice too, but it isn't truly infinite and it's certainly isn't free. I would imagine that you came out the health care industry prior to this, right, you know, they're pretty cost conscious.

They watch the dollars closely, right? Absolutely and it's especially when I when I wear my SRE hat I hate how much I say this phrase but I it's true I do it a lot. If you give an SRE a kubernetes environment you say hey, your application has to be available for nines.

They're going to turn that CPU dial all the way to the right because that's how you get that, you know valid availability and reliability concerns is just how much CPU can I throw at it? So you're saying storm forges given SRE kubernetes or give SRE stormforge, right? And that's the kitchen to fish.

That's where I was going for. Yeah, and that's the idea we can come in and we can tell you. Hey you want four nines.

This is the configuration you should use and then that'll save you x amount of dollars because every every core of CPU Beyond this or memory or whatever metric you're looking at isn't doing you any good other than helping you sleep at night, but you don't you don't need it. So I understand we have an exclusive you're gonna tell us about a big I won't I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tell you the exclusive. I'm gonna open right here you Do it guys.

This is what he does. He puts me in front of a camera and gets me to talk about two pictures. Yeah your new rules.

So then I have to commit to delivering that later. Right but one of the biggest things for me, as you know coming from the Enterprise is the cost of kubernetes and how much of that is just like like I said, it's wasted because people are cranking that dial to the right and so it's too much CPU compute ends up being a ridiculous amount on your Cloud build, right? And so one of the things that we're working through right now is this product that we call illuminate and the idea is essentially we're gonna provide transparency into what you're spending on kubernetes and then we'll also be able to natively identify for you the areas of your application or maybe within your name space the ones that are costing you the most and say hey, this is one that you need to look at right now and so they'll help you prioritize where you start by using storm Forge and then also we'll be able to track that over time because that's one of the things I love about storm Forge is especially when you look across like a cluster deployment 99% of the time.

In fact, I don't know that we've had a customer yet where we don't save them money. Like it pays for itself, but we loved over Provisions. So you're everybody.

It's completely you know, it's it's that safety net. Right? But how big a safety net do you need?

Yeah, not to the tune of some of the ones that we're seeing where we're saying millions of dollars for customers. It's crazy. And then it has it's it kind of has some impact to the environment too.

When we think about wasted compute Cycles reducing power consumption all that fun stuff and then or like if you're at a physical data center, like we have it United Health Group, our data centers were literally full we were out of space and we didn't want to build another one. Well with stormforce we can come in and free up that CPU. So then you can deploy additional namespaces so you don't have to worry about trying to figure out where you're gonna rack another server to get that one more cluster in there.

Yeah, it's changed correctly. It sounds like you're looking into the application part of How It's consuming or orchestrate or organize. Yeah Cooper Netties, which let's face it, you know, you can have nice big fat containers.

You can have really Sleek, you know efficient ones. And microservices and service mesh and it's all in that design and I'm sure I mean large Enterprises don't go rewrite all their apps and kubernetes and highly efficient microservices tomorrow, right? I mean, it's just the fact of life new things might get that Advantage but you've got that Blended environment where you may be running some less than efficient.

Yeah, but they're more ways you can save money on that as well as your, you know, maybe your high performance apps and what's really interesting too that we've seen when you have a big cluster deployment or a ton of namespaces more often than not we'll find one or two that are actually under provisioned just because all these big ones are over provision. They're using all the CPU compute. So then the little guy at the end of the day, there's not enough left for them and they'll maybe deep prioritize it from a reliability perspective.

But then when we save, you know, 30 40 percent off the top for the rest of the name space then suddenly we can come in and say hey this application actually we think you need to deploy a little bit more CPU a little bit more memory. And then this is what you get for availability and latency as a trade off and it's Improvement. With a minimal cost and on just that one application, which is it's it's great.

It's all these unintended consequences that I love about the capability. It's interesting. It's interesting.

When you look at the Legacy applications that you brought up. Java is a great example. Java has so many different parameters that you need to tune when you pull it over keep largest collection replica because the list goes on if you look at kubernetes environment, it has all its own variables you need to tune.

So the fact that you need to tune these things in concert to ensure that you don't have an outage like you talked about it and customers have outages because they run at a resources a lot of time if you had a tool like optimization platform that could do these all through machine learning and not have humans try to do the dials likely have success goes up dramatically and that's really been our sweet spot is looking at those type of deployments and environments to solve. Again. Matt has a gear CEOs a great story about his time collect.

Ideas and working on some machine learning and where to apply that and ended up in the kubernetes space. Yeah, it is. It's an interesting Journey as most startups.

You you pivot a couple times in order to solve the problem. But if you looked at the level of complexities in how ml could actually solve those complexities and I think in today's industry, it's a little bit of challenge everyone and their brother uses buzzwords around Ai and ML and a lot of them are trying to solve a real business problem. And our whole practicality is where is the business problem and we can help solve and the kubernetes one felt right in our sweet spot on the Technology based standpoint.

Well, that was one of the things for me when I joined the company and I was first looking into it too. It was I looked at that and I said I have had this problem for 10 years like this is perfect. Like I love it which got me really excited about what we're doing and yeah, like Tom said we started in machine learning.

So it's because one of the things I like to talk about when I was at the Enterprise and people would come in and sell to me. It's like, oh we have this thing. It's Learning and then you look under the covers and it's just a Holtz Winter forecast in a trench coat.

It's like well, that's not really machine learning right? But with what we do with this product, it's like I said, it's it's true machine learning. We've got our own algorithms that we wrote.

I've got phds and applied maths on staff that just love this stuff and the story is so cool about where it came from cool. Well, I'm not going to be mad and pin you down to an exact date when your lunch Tomorrow probably yeah. Well, you know tomorrow afternoon would be fine.

You have an idea on time frame and generally like a plus or minus. Yeah, 12 months. Oh, yeah for sure.

I'm gonna be really generous now. I don't know if I would still be here if it was plus 12 months. Yeah, if we're gonna deliver on it, but no it's it's a big priority for me because when I when I think about who I was as a customer at the Enterprise, it's very much a okay.

What is this doing for me and to be able to show somebody in a graphana dashboard here is the amount of money that you have saved. And then also here's the other amount of money we predict we can save on these other applications like it becomes a no-brainer for me. So my hope is soon right Tom would say get it next week as always that's what I would ask but I think the marketplace is growing like crazy as you're aware and there's so many tools out that that talk about cost costs.

Right and one unique thing about us is it's not just the cost. It's about the trade off between how much resources and how you want your applications to perform so you can try to only Have a cost problem and you're still going to have other omm and other issues that you run in from production standpoint. So we want to actually have a platform that not just looks at Cost but it looks at performance looks at quality and it's all doing it through an algorithmic way.

And so that humans are a little removed from the day-to-day tuning and solving of it and could actually prioritize higher Innovative things within the framework of developing software. Very good. Well, hope we see something in 2020 too or yeah, like I hope would be yeah, right.

Yeah. I'm gonna get better, right? When's cubecon, not America, right?

Yeah, you're doing it to yourself. That's not me. We'll see.

Alright, Patrick and Tom from stormforge. Thank you so much for being with us. Good to have you on f******* drive TV.

Come back. We want to hear more. Yeah illuminate.

So perfect. Thank you. Thank you stay tuned.

We have more coming with some really fantastic interviews in addition to this one, of course and thanks for joining us. We'll be back real quick. This is Textron TV.

Well the great pleasure today of being joined by Ranjit to niker. Who is CEO of Nest digital engineering. Welcome Rajiv great to be talking with you great to talk to you to a message.

Thanks for having me you bad great to have you as we were just catching up a little bit before talking about NASCAR's. I remember you all from when I worked in the cable in the video side of the industry, but it's a much different world. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tell us a little about Ness and we'll get into digital transformation. Sure, my pleasure. So mess has been around for a long time.

We people were founded in Israel in 1999. And we've done one thing really well throughout our life which is built proprietary for software products and platforms. And and I'm sure at some point in your life.

You must have touched upon or interacted with the pieces software that nests on the message Engineers have built if you were to go to a Hilton hotel room the video streaming software in your setup box is probably built by us. If you were to take a mass transit system in London or Arizona or New York or Bangkok the automated Payment Systems total fires. God forbid if you want to go to a hotel hospital and do a CAT scan.

There's a good chance that the the diagnostic imaging systems were built with pieces of court that we built so we have been around for a long time and hopefully these these examples give you a sense of the kind of what we do. These are very sophisticated pieces of software built by very Talent their software Engineers that you don't find very easily around the world. And so that's so true, especially now.

Yes, you know, let's talk about digital transformation and not a new term and you I've been kind of living this for a while, but I think at a business strategy how we leverage technology imply. These things have changed a lot. I mean our worlds have changed whether it's you know covid or war in Ukraine or move to the cloud and SAS or I mean you can you get a list the Technologies right?

It's really more how we think about that met a strategic level at a board even a board or executive level and drive the business from it agree. I mean this is this is a topic very close to my heart Mitch because I I want to mentally believe that the promise of technology has been sold to management teams and more. By Consultants by academics and the technology vendors for the last 30 years and not without reason they have had it but if you go through all those Lessons Learned, there's one thing that is always come.

And the common lesson learned is of course technology and and using the best of technology and having the talent to be able to build it and deploy it is critical it's necessary but it's not sufficient and more often than not is the other stuff the management culture the mindsets the processes the way we run our businesses that comes in the way of successful digital transformation. And this new type of digital technology by which I mean Cloud massive data processing platforms machine learning and AI these Technologies are just hyper-accelerating the level of transformation. You can produce in a business.

And therefore the barriers to that transformation are also hyper accelerating. So I wanted to talk a little bit about those. When you talk about the first one I think is just the way we manage our businesses financially.

They're built on the annual budgeting cycle. Transformations cannot be made slave to the annual budgeting cycle. And very often a transformation dates do the three to four years sometimes 10 years.

I was talking to the head of a large one of the world's largest Automotive manufacturing company. And they are looking at electrical weights and they're going to rapidly transform this whole industry now. the auto dealerships of this company are in the range of making 70 billion to 80 billion euros.

every year a large portion of that comes from after sales parts and service. Well, you don't need that for EVS. So what are you gonna do with these businesses the transformation that that dealership has to go through to come up with new sources of revenue like leasing financing our subscriptions and so on and so forth will not come in one quarter or one annual budgeting cycle.

You have to take a penny and the discussion we had with them was how can we work together for the next 10 years, right? That's doesn't happen very often. The second is around commercial risks.

There is a reason why Innovation is hard. It's not because people don't have good ideas. It's because very often and Innovation means sometimes cannibalizing your existing products and your businesses and very often.

You're not ready for that. So I used to run a fintech business. We came up with the new product platform and we wanted to take it to our customers.

But guess what these customers were using our own platform for 15 years. Now, I go to them with my new fancy product. They say, you know what raunchy I really like to use it.

But if I'm going to incur the switching costs of going from my old platform to your platform the might as well issue an RFP and see what's out there and now I've increased my Revenue rest what you wanted to hear. So it's you know commercial risk is the second one and I think third one is ecosystems the digital Technologies of fundamentally transformed the way the engage customers as well as suppliers, the traditional boundaries between your business and my business along the value chain having destroyed now, a traditional Enterprise has problems even coordinating within the Enterprise between the product team and the sales team and the customer service team. Well now you talk about integrating with the customers distribution are more or the suppliers.

And that's where a lot of these digital transformation programs have limitations in the way. They get executed. So I feel like digital transformation is not a technology problem.

Only it is more importantly in management culture a business model and strategy program. I really like the way you've broken it down. And for a couple of reasons one is No plan is static America.

Every plan is wrong. As soon as you hit the save button, right or you don't even hit the save button on some some apps today. But you're you have to constantly change.

I mean you may acquire a company you may acquire the technology that you're planning on building or buying or whatever or you know sell out part of the business or you know, who knows what's gonna change, you know, it will change that's the given fact so I think the ability to react and sort of sometimes adjust sometimes rethink sometimes restrategize. Yes about how we go and you know where we're going with our transformation. The other is you mentioned the auto, you know dealers.

Nobody knows what that model really looks like until you get into market and try it right and you start to do things and you know, they'll discover this doesn't bring us in enough revenue and this does and we we pivoted to that and they're gonna of course correct a bunch of times so you can't plan for what the answer is you can plan. For heading down a path and being able to just with it. And yes the Technologies there to help you and maybe enable it.

Maybe it's maybe it's a key strategic element of it, but it's no longer. You know, if we just by the next side base Oracle database based whatever, you know Erp system. We've got everything we need we know that's not the right answer.

We those products are fine, but it's not a single Silver Bullet. Like I think we sold a lot of technology to our border and I think you said everybody will admit I think strategy is never really about it's a constantly so long as you know, what your end goal is and what your Innovation is, then as the one changes you can always adjust your path to get there and you know, and something else you mentioned is the systemic nature of The environment we're working in the ecosystem right another way to say that I mean, I mean I believe about Supply chains is it isn't about rebuilding and it's about continuously rebuilding them. I mean you have to do that right now, who knows maybe we'll end up in a bit of Fairly stable situation again where we can rely on certain suppliers.

I just don't think that's the near term certainly in the next three to five years. It's an interesting one and I have, you know be out of tech services firm. So I have an interesting Vantage Point into the tech balance supply chain, and of course it's been disrupted.

Has been disrupted by covid and has been disrupted by the Ukrainian crisis and it is location of demand across many companies and and there is a price to pay for that. Of course, you know a number of companies have not been able to give their products out to Market fast enough and capital has been constrained in the late flows across all these opportunities. but I I think something good also has come out of it.

Um, and and I can I was just this morning talking to somebody said that this whole work from anywhere is here to stay now that totally changes the way we do business. Oh, yeah, right you can have a team which is 25% in east Europe. 30% in USA and you know the rest in the lab.

And Technology can make it all seamless because guess what, you know what you and I could be right now sitting right next to each other and the other room. Or we could be in different ends of the continent and you would not know. It's you know, I do I do a show called ciso Talk and we've tracked a lot about how the role of the ciso shifted from.

This is what I'm designing protecting building Etc to I'm Outsourcing all that my corporate Network inside. My building is run by somebody else that looks just like the Starbucks Network or the whatever because what's the difference? Right?

I mean, why should I have one environment that looks you know completely different from every hotel and restaurant and you know Park Venture whatever you might be in I've got I've got to be able to design it for Indian location, right? That's a different mindset different model. So true it's gonna be a fascinating World Mitch.

I really think the next five years. in fact, you know, I was gonna say given all this change and if you look at the current macroeconomic environment I've actually enjoying this macroeconomic uncertainty because I think it's gonna take a little bit of the froth out of the market and when the type receipts I think will be left with companies that really solid and actually are value creating in the way they operate. And the discussion around cybersecurity that you mentioned is an example of that.

I think we have to take that very seriously, but we have to take it in a way that is cost efficient and smart and if you do it the right way. I think you know you you'll serve you well in the years to come. That's interesting that we kind of getting into these runaways chain reactions right where it just you know, it builds on itself evaluations get crazier and funding models get to interesting and and once in a while, I mean it eventually will reset or whatever that is.

I mean just picking on investment side of it but it's it's sort of like they're trajectory. We were on before covid right before lockdown and that, you know, boom everything changes and yes some things go back somewhat but a lot doesn't it's and my belief is you can't change a fundamental component of a system and expect it to return back to its previous stable state. It won't it's not possible.

So you change enough elements like this and you have a lot of disruption, but that's where the opportunity is, right. Totally I mean, yeah changes there was there's a story about the newspapers over the last hundred and fifty years every 50 years. Somebody comes and says well look at this new technology the telegraph or television or whatever the internet and the newspapers are going to die and and actually it's just became different and what effective at every stage and they're still here you look at Jeff bezels.

He's completely Reinventing The Washington Post and it's personalized news and it's vital news and it's different type of news. So I feel like changes always an opportunity. If you want a good business.

But I'd love to have you back because we get explore any of these areas and we do a lot of work on digital transformation. Especially it's the cxo level two. So hopefully you'll come back and join us.

We'll kind of go down a few of these events. That'd be great. Well, thanks for joining us today.

Range, it is CEO with Nest digital engineering. We'll talk to you again. Talk to you.

Thanks. Ciso talk to hear. How real world CIS are dealing with today's real world issues from enabling secure remote workers to accelerating secure Cloud adoption defending against a pandemic of security attacks in Beyond ciso talk covers the Cyber topics.

You want to learn about with your hosts Unisys. Ciso, Matt, Newfield and media Ops CEO Alan shiml featuring a revolving panel of ciso cyber experts. tv.

strong TV. Hey guys, thanks for the throw. We're here with over me or his CTO for America and we're gonna be talking about Security in the land of Office 365 and slack off for welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. we've seen large numbers of organizations Embrace slack and Office 365 messaging I guess because there's email in there to a certain degree but It's working to varying degrees from a workplace perspective.

But irregardless of what you think of those platforms. They still need to be secured. But it seems to me a lot of organizations are overlooking that so why is that happening over?

So I would say overlooking is necessarily the world but I think you know as we look through different technologies that we've embraced over the years starting emails and so on attackers would always find way to take advantage even of existing functionality and existing usage and we've built a lot of compensating controls and a lot of user education as well. Right if you get a weird email, you suspect it's a fishing or whatever. These chat platforms are still young and attacks on them are still young as well.

We haven't got a lot of mileage there. And so we haven't built a lot of the security both into technology side, you know compensating controls and security products on top of them nor the user awareness and attention around that. Are these attacks fundamentally different or is it basically the same thing where somebody steals somebody's credentials and pretends to be somebody else and then starts passing around Files full of malware or is there something unique and different about the way that these platforms are compromised?

So I think there's there's a little of both right? So of course a very popular attack Vector is I get credentials and use them for various things. I think there's something about the You know the instant culture of chat that allows for certain types of fraudulent activity to be easier if we look at the EA attack from a year ago where somebody got their hands on a slack count and then they use that to reach out to tech support through slack and have the main user reset password and and the multi-factor authentication right?

This is something that wouldn't be you wouldn't be able to do by email in an old fashion way. But because everybody in slack, you know, just write something somebody reports. It's like a conversation only the authenticities is determined by the little line that says if you are it makes it easier so I would say that on one side we're going to see a lot of all types of attack that manifest through the new way of communication not necessarily malware, but in personation miss, you know using misconfigure permissions and so on.

They're also other things that are a little more unique to these platforms. So again some of its culture some of its technology if we take slack for instance everybody in slack can create a new group and add people to it and start talking about things in there. Right and the default if you create a new group in slack is that it's public group.

That's part of the slack culture, right? Everybody can search everybody can join people know is think about it people are not security people. So you go into organization and you look at their groups.

A lot of their public groups have very sensitive data that maybe only the five or six people on that group should see but in theory anybody who searches it can join it and see anything in it. We thousands of people in the organization. So one compromise account will be able to access a lot of data.

another thing that that we see is that a lot of this is also used not just for you know chatter conversation, but it's sort of Knowledge Management System people started using slack as a place to start documents history and a lot of other things. so that's one side of it and the technology side when we all see and that's true for all SAS platforms to a degree, but very strong was slack is that it's an ecosystem. So there's a lot of third party integration and a lot of trust it goes on between those integration.

So I may be able to take over slack account and use it to do things in Office 365 or in Salesforce or in another system that has a Plugin or integration into spot. Do you think that some of these folks are lurking on these platforms for months trying to get a Vibe for how the organization operates and that's part of their strategy is they want to impersonate somebody but they got to go and actually sit there and kind of observe how they work for a while before they can successfully do that. Of course and that's we see that with attackers especially around ransomware attacks in pretty much every way we look right when you look at the big Grand somewhere.

That's the one you hear on news with millions and tens of millions of Ransom. These numbers are not branded attackers learn their organization. They take advantage of the access.

They have to figure out what would be the right Target and the right number to go with that Target and we expect the same to happen with slack and an Office 365 and we've recently investigated a few Office 365 incidents where the initial attack Vector was months before the actual exploitation or taking advantage of the system to place and we can see that this was used to together intelligence. Are there best practices for thwarting these types of attacks? I mean am I supposed to be training my end users or their Technologies and policies I put in place.

How do I kind of approach this? So like anything in security It's a combination right? It's process technology and people so the first thing is awareness teaching your employees that this can happen goes a long way telling them, you know to to not respond immediately on anything in slack, but if it looks weird to stop for our second and think wait, maybe the person talking with me on the other side is is not that real person.

It's also about building the right security controls in place permission. So in my org whenever I see a new public group being formed I look at it and I check whether it should be public and if it's not I change it to private and I also tell the person who created it to notice that in the future. They need to do it private.

It works. It works because people learn when when you teach them and so getting people to understand that making sure there's less permissions, but also, Employing the right security features. So a lot of these platforms have security features.

Unfortunately, some of these security features are only available in the higher tiers. So for instance, if you look at slack only the Enterprise here gives you the full single sign on and logs and all of those things. But if you are an organization that wants and cares deeply about security and uses slack as a core platform, then you should go up there and use those features.

We hear a lot about AI these days. Do you think AI will play a role at some point helping us mitigate these types of breaches and attacks or is it more hype than substance? I just had it.

I had I had this exact conversation an hour ago with with an investor and he said a very good statement. He said the day that all that the only way attackers will attack us will be using AI that attacks then AI the defense could be sufficient. But as long as humans are smart enough to create new ways to attack.

We will need also humans to help defend. AI can help of course, but I think AI is is sometimes overhyped in thinking how much it can do because attackers hackers is all about being smart and finding ways to circumvent technology not necessarily for bad. Right when we say the word hacker something necessarily a bad thing, but hackers in nature people who look for ways around technology limitations.

So when we build good AI It will just mean that the hackers will need to come up with new ways to break their eye their new attacks on AI now. A lot of these attacks are essentially social engineering and in the early days, you can always kind of somewhat spot them but it looks to me now that the people who are perpetrating. These attacks are getting a lot more sophisticated in their ability to mimic organizations and kind of mimic individuals in your boss and everybody else.

So is that because they're language skills are getting better or they just hire in people who are native speakers and going for it. I think it's because they're investing more resources, right? So so everything you said is right that they hire the right people they perfect the skill and it's it's become mainstream.

If you look I've been an industry for a long time now 20 years ago most attacks were either individuals small groups people doing it for for fun today. It's a business organized crime has moved online and and it's a business and because of that they get the people with the right skills and I think us is as Defenders this organizations that are being attacked. We need to understand that this is not going to stop there will always be social engineering and we'll always be successful.

To stand degree and so it's about building compensating controls. It's about building additional layers of verification for critical things. It's also about preparing and being ready for breaches to happen because they will happen they're unavoidable, but we can reduce their impact if we're ready to them and we know how to respond to them quicker.

Hmm. So what is your best advice to folks? What should they be thinking about or doing or what?

Do you wish that? A lot of them would do as a fundamental before they even got a hold of you? so there, you know two areas to focus on right.

The first one is is protection do better job at securing our environment permissions. Of course, you know, I'm gonna start with a trivial but I still see organizations that don't use two-factor authentication that such a basic thing that helps doesn't solve but helps a lot. So putting the right Security in place putting permissions making sure you have a strong strong minimal permission policy for everything you do in in your environments, but then the other thing is get ready for a breach and what does it mean it means that?

You have plans in place. You understand how a bridge is going to look like you collect the right data so that when a breach happens, you can go back and investigate and discover what happens so that they can respond to it and know what happens in the most efficient way and those are things that all can be done today before there's any incident before anything happens just improving your your posture both around protection and around response. All right.

Well, let's just assume that something bad's gonna happen and be prepared to respond accordingly over. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you very much.

All right back to you guys in the studio. This is Tech strong TV. Hey guys.

Thanks for the throw. We're here with the Alicia Club Chuck who's a product marketing director for Barracuda networks, and we're talking about HTML attachments and security these days Alicia. Welcome the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. You guys just put out a report that says that for the most part it's HTML attachments that are the most malicious these days folks tend to think of PDFs and all kinds of other stuff. So is there a ship going on here?

And if so, what's driving that well, you know, I think HTML attachments has always been a big problem. It's just that this problem is growing of a time because they're so easy for hackers to use to trick users into you know, entering their credentials into into fishing sides. It's much harder to do so with PDFs or Word documents HTML attachment is just lend themselves so well to to different hacks.

is there some way to discover these attachments that people should be using or is it really just a matter of training and users not to go click on them or maybe a little bit about you know, whether it's really his combination of both like you you do want your email security to look out for HTML attachments. Not every everyone that offers that but most do today. So you do want to to look for those HTML attachments.

You don't do the same time want to just block all of them because there are teens within each organization that individuals within each organizations that may expect to receive HTML attachments but not everybody. So you do want to look for for them and I would say, you know about research found one and five of those attachments are malicious. So if you get one you want to treat all of them suspiciously compared to PDFs words or any other one.

So in the same way, you would probably treat executables a lot of organizations just block executables, but that is not always the best strategy which HTML another way of looking at for HTML attachments. It's not just About attachments themselves, but you really want to take into account everything else about the email. Where's this email is coming from who is sending this maybe even contents of the email message as well and look for other signals that may suggest that the attachment is malicious.

The biggest challenge with HTML attachments is that the attachments themselves most of a time and not malicious. So if you scan for some malicious code the malicious payload, you'll find nothing because all they do is just read direct someplace else that may have malicious intent behind it. You mentioned training training is of course a really really big part of that training uses to be suspicious of HTML attachments designers web developers.

They probably share HTML attachments between themselves. But if you're in sales department, how many times do you receive that make sure that they aware that this might be a them put a make sure it's part of your ongoing security awareness training and that you train them not just to be suspicious of links, but also pay attention of the type of attachments they get Do you think that the people who are putting out these fake attachments are getting better at this they're starting to look more realistic and you know the days when you could tell it was, you know from a Nigerian prince or whatever over and that these things are kind of becoming more sophisticated and people are getting more easily full. Yeah, for sure.

We see that with pretty much any attack any threat that hackers are using they're getting Better they're using social engineering tactics to really trick users into believing them. What they're getting is is the real thing and perfectly legitimate email and when it comes to this particular type of an attack the One one of the reasons why it's just it can be so effective and why it's so many of them are malicious is because you know you open HTML attachments and very often is just loads on your local machine, right? Like it's not hosted on a public internet therefore all of the usual tactics that organizations use to prevent this attacks such as link protections and I just ineffective because they're not hosted on the public website.

But once you start entering your credentials, you know, those are actually going to the hackers. So it's it's a pretty clever way. That's it.

That's involve a little bit more of an effort and just typing an email saying I have three million dollars 7300 and I'll wire it to you that it requires a lot more effort to creating those attachments making sure that it's all set up getting through all of the systems but the payout is so much bigger as well. Right? All right, so that Lottery that I allegedly won in some country that I've never been to I should be suspicious of right?

All right. What is your thought process about can we ever maybe start to use machine learning algorithms and maybe AI in the future to kind of identify this stuff because to your point, I can't really scan it. But are there other giveaways that I can go look for?

Yeah, you absolutely right because you you can definitely use, you know, you you definitely have a technology. It's a scan that attachments right to look for malicious payloads within that and see how it's safe. There is nothing really there's no malicious payload with attachment is just read that racks then you want to Look for other things in addition to those redirects and in addition to being able to scan where it's getting redirected to so machine learning can really help here to look for other clues that may kind of identify malicious email.

So looking for where's the email is coming from? Is this the kind of email if you've got them before have you ever received an HTML attachment? Is there a language within an email that might be suspicious a suspicious request an email address.

There's never been associated with an individual's name. That is the email is coming from so all of those things, you know is Could be a sign of a malicious email, but it's really difficult to. Create a set of rules and policies that are able to identify all of this different variations and things that are kind of outside of the norm and that's where machine learning and AI can really come in and help and to create kind of statistical models around communication patterns and any deviation from those norms and those statistical models.

They can flag as malicious. So you want to have a security that has a combination of both really, you know, traditional scanning technology as well as AI for more targeted threats, and that's the harder to identify. Should we be changing our credentials more?

Because at least from my perspective someone will take your credentials through that HTML page, but they may not use it immediately A lot of times they'll log in kind of hang around they might insert some malware. It might be months though before you actually feel the pain of an attack. There was created because of their ability to grab your credentials.

So, you know, is this a lesson in the fact that we need to be more aggressive about managing credentials and passwords because you never know when something is gonna Return to bite you later, but you at the time you didn't think anything of it. Yeah, I think changing credentials changing your passwords could be. Could be a good practice, but it's not.

It's not the best one out there, you know, there are other practices that think will make a much bigger impact than just changing your credentials and regular basis because you know, all of our personal information is out there every other week we get we see the news about another day to breach and another League just today or something about data breach of Marriott Hotels. A lot of credentials got stolen there and a lot of individuals actually reuse the password. So, you know, if you are using the same password as with your you know with your personal accounts hackers can go and and use that so there is probably personal information about it somewhere in the dark web as well.

The way organizations can protect credentials. So their employees is really through a couple of different ways. One of the best one is a multi-factor authentication and the organization should put that in place first and foremost that is going to be way more effective than having them.

Change passwords every two three months and you know people just start reusing passwords because they'll forget them but multifact authentication can really really help but it's again it's not a silver bullet. It can be circumvented by hackers. They have ways of getting around it.

So training is a big part as well. So making sure that they individuals not just don't click on where they shouldn't be clicking but are are also reporting in suspicious activity within their accounts that they think are odd emails that they're receiving or sending that they were not expecting and lastly organization should really monitor for any suspicious activities are within their accounts in case those credentials got compromised. So I emails being said that all times other Emails coming from vacations that you don't have you use this logging in from there all of a sudden mass emails going out other suspicious and malicious emails going out today suspicious rules changes within their account, you know, there's so many signs that could tell that there is the there is a hacker or somebody inside an organization and using has already compromised an account.

So if organizations have all of those things in place You know, you can't ever prevent credential theft 100% of the time but you can really reduce the risk associated with that or risk of that happening within the organization. So you've been at this a little while once the one thing that you see organizations doing over and over again, that just makes you shake your head and wonder how come we keep doing the same silly thing over and over again. Yeah, so I think probably one of the biggest things is just The treating everything thinking the spam is your biggest problem.

A lot of organizations really focus on high volume attacks and they say, you know, what if I block 1995% of their attacks which are spam or known malware. I'm good. I don't need anything else the rest, you know, the risk is too low for me.

Nobody's gonna click it. Maybe I'll just tell my users to be careful and There isn't you can't you can't do that because that that long tail that last five two percent of the attacks are the ones that you actually want to be really really focused on because it's like you said everybody knows the Nigerian prince scam. If you get an email that has a spelling mistake from where you never got before the chances will be falling for that has so much low, especially in the business environment.

Then I carefully Engineers social engineering attacks. They personally your boss who's asking you to give them a call because they have an urgent favor to ask that's a much more clever attack, but it's also so much harder to detect and a lot of the time organizations do need to make additional Investments to make protection against those attacks. But those are their tags the ones they get through.

They're the ones that have a much higher success rate compared to spam or any other ones. All right. Well, there's a felony Murphy who wrote a law about that and basically, you know, if it can't happen it's likely to happen.

So you might as well get prepared for it now Alicia. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you.

All right back to you guys in the studio. com covers all aspects of software containers from container management data management for containers container security networking for containers to the entire container ecosystem kubernetes microservices serverless and more. com to learn more.

Hi again, everyone. I hope you all enjoyed today's episode of tech strong TV. We brought you discussions from yala devops RSA kubecon cloud nativecon and more.

We also finished up another great episode of The Haunted hacker private open Mainframe Summit and had an incredible two episodes of view of this art. I'll be back again on Monday with some awesome interviews. So please join us for that.

Once again. Thanks for joining us today, and we hope to see you again. Have a great weekend.

And as always stay strong text strong.