Ram Iyengar, Cloud Foundry Foundation | KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2023

This is texturing TV. Hello and welcome back to kubecon plus Cloud nativecon Europe and we're here with ram Iron Guard from the cloud Foundry Foundation talking about developer experience and developer productivity Ram. How you doing?

I'm doing fine. Thanks for having me my You guys had some updates to the core Cloud Foundry Paz environment that runs on kubernetes. Why don't you walk us through what you guys are up to and where we are on this journey should so the name of the tool is curry feet and Cloud Foundry on kubernetes is branded as Cloud Foundry.

It's a fully open source project. We just launched our v-070. It has a bunch of things for Different personas, for example if you're coming in from like the existing Cloud Foundry world, it's your best path towards becoming Cloud native.

There's also some Integrations that we built with kubernetes over the years, but the current version is the one that runs best on like a local machine provides full parity in terms of the CF on VMS and what you can get on kubernetes. You guys have been at this for a while now and there was a time there where Paz was the coolest thing in the world and then it went to being viewed as something like a four-letter word. And now it seems like the pendulum is swinging back the other way again, and we're kind of focusing in on developer productivity.

So what's your sensor what's going on here? Well, I kind of think that's the way of the world and we gotta live with it. But then the kind of adoption and the kind of complexity that the cloud native world and kubernetes in general has been running into has required that a pass come along and simplify things for at least some of the folks out there like not everybody wants to Cobble together a platform on their own and so the market is becoming a little more receptive to the concept of a pass once again.

For kubernetes and for managing Cloud infrastructure in general and there's also people who are you know, continuing to run vm-based workloads and they're also moving to like Cloud native workloads. And so you want to pass that slightly more complete in terms of being able to handle both kinds of workloads what I like to call the cloud naive and the cloud native one and so Cloud Foundry because you know, it's been at it for like 10 years now, which is like a million years and software. It's it's very well positioned for this convergence in terms of both VM based workloads and kubernetes working because microservices don't run in isolation by themselves.

And there is this thing called the monolithic application that's been around for four or five decades. Now, that's not going away. Is that your point?

Well, we could go a little further and say mean frames are still right, but it's not quite like that. So if you look at some of the trends that are In Vogue right now. So there's a project called Cube word.

That's a cncf project and that is essentially aimed at converging. Cloud native kubernetes base workloads along with some vm-based workloads that people might have and so it's it's a more pragmatic view of things as opposed to saying. Oh I will not do vm-based workloads anymore because I've moved to Cloud native.

I mean applications and you know Necessities come out of what what the technology demands as opposed to just what you're marketing department expenses, right? So the history of software development is riddled with statements that said well, it worked fine on my laptop. Yeah.

Right now though, I mean back in the day. You took like 40 plus VMS just to fire up the pass. Yep.

Now we're on kubernetes and we're seeing instances of cloud Foundry running on notebooks. Yes. So how is that changing the developer experience?

I think that has been a very key milestone for the community. So ever since it's Inception. A big complaint in the cloud Foundry Community has been hey, I'm not able to run this on my laptop do some local Dev.

Try it out with my You Know sample apps and that has been a bit of a difficulty in leading the Groundswell in terms of developers adopting this and then You know management accepting this and things like that. So it's changing that sort of top-down adoption Paradigm of cloud Foundry and it's making it a more developer LED adoption, which we're very happy about and we're very optimistic about so yes corifi can run on your laptop. Yes, the best place to try it out is a kind cluster with very little sort of resource usage where we're in the process of experimenting this with like a k3s and things like that.

So maybe watch to come is, you know, even Cloud Foundry on the edge might not be very far. Early on everybody was saying hey, you know what? You guys are gonna get left behind because somebody's gonna come out with a great development and experience, you know, and I've been hearing that for three years.

Yes. I've yet to actually see this great development experience. So, you know, it seems like we're still at Square One.

Yes, and kind of know because the developer experience is is being put together. It's the cloud native world has not been very slow moving or stagnating even in the little bit right and the whole Cloud native landscape which has I can't count that the number of projects on that anymore and the whole Cloud native landscape has been about allowing more and more projects to emerge. That's all one problem at a time and solve it well, and so there's a lot of Ways you can get that developer experience that you're talking about, but there hasn't been like a single one way to do that.

And so it's in bits and pieces you can see like the k-pak project making strides. You can see the build packs projects taking over you can see other projects like projects like contour and on boy and so many things taking over but you can piece it together now. if you're if you know the landscape well enough, but I think it's a ripe for that one platform to emerge where they really nailed down the general purpose developer experience quickly.

So what's next for you guys you're on. Point seven. 0 is coming when and you know, because everybody seems to always obsess about the one that oh they do so hopefully before Chicago, but this shouldn't be like a a conference doing development cycle, but the community is optimistic about getting this out within the year.

There's a few key pieces that we want to build out in terms of services in terms of like better support for existing container workflows and things like that. And once we have those small pieces nailed down, I think we're ready for a wonderful soon. All right guys, you're hurting here.

It's a brand new app deaf King in town and kind of looks like the old King But Here We Go Again Ram. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks so much Mike.

It was a pleasure. Thanks. Great, and we'll be back in a minute.