What Developers Should Expect from AI Tools Today and Tomorrow with Alex Gusev

Hey guys, thanks for the throw. We're here with Alex Gusev, who's CTO for upload care, and we're gonna have a little chat about, well, just what should developers expect in the age of ai, because, well, there's a lot of hype, but it's not quite clear that hype and reality are one and the same. Alex, welcome to the show.

Um, hi. Thank you. Alright, so we've seen all kinds of claims in the last year about AI and what it can and can't do, and sometimes I think we're having a little trouble parsing the word is, and we, uh, make some assumptions about what something can do maybe nine months from now to a year versus what it can do today.

But from your perspective, what are you seeing with ai? What's a reasonable expectation for developers? And of course, there's a lot of noise about AI replacing developers.

Is that even probable or likely? Um, uh, first of all, um, what I'm saying today can be, um, obsolete, uh, tomorrow because, uh, uh, the last week, uh, in AI space, uh, is like stone age, uh, uh, from now because, uh, the progress, uh, is, uh, like immersive and, um, it's very bold, uh, from one to give some, uh, like, uh, estimations. But, um, currently I don't think that, uh, it can replace, uh, engineers and, uh, uh, this LinkedIn meme about, uh, new job, uh, wipe code cleaner, um, uh, like, uh, showing us that, uh, it can actually introduce more jobs, uh, than, uh, replace, uh, engineers.

What kind of impact is it having on productivity though? Because on the one hand, I will say that coding maybe is only 20% of the job, maybe 30%. And the rest of it is all the stuff that's required to push something into production.

And that part of it doesn't seem very automated. We're still dependent upon a lot of manual bottlenecks that show up in our DevOps workflows. So I mean, it, it might be, I guess, an amazing thing that developers are a little more productive, but that doesn't necessarily translate directly into more applications out the door because of all the things required.

Um, uh, yes, of course, currently AI is, uh, struggling, uh, with, um, um, big context windows. Uh, although they, uh, a advertise big context windows, all the things that you mentioned, um, can be done, uh, via ai. So, um, agents can deploy servers, uh, agents can, uh, um, build code agents can, um, uh, design a marketing campaign for you.

Uh, and, uh, they already can design a decent website, uh, better than some designers, uh, and of course to, uh, write code better than some, um, uh, programmers, uh, better than me, for example. But, um, um, it to, to run a business, uh, is, uh, to like, um, put it all together. And, uh, currently it's, uh, not capable of doing that.

And, uh, yeah, I also agree with you that, uh, writing code, uh, is, uh, I can say, uh, about percent, but it's, uh, definitely, uh, not as important as, as, uh, developers think, uh, as I was, uh, uh, thinking when I was younger. Um, so I completely agree it, um, today, it can't replace, uh, but, uh, every week, uh, gives, uh, people, uh, new rounds of amusement, uh, about what, uh, it can do. Uh, and, um, uh, while I am not, uh, pro, uh, ai or not very conservative about ai, uh, I believe that we are, uh, in the middle of, uh, new technological and scientific revolution.

And, uh, uh, I believe that it will change how we work. Uh, but, uh, currently it's not to replace us. Mm-hmm.

How do you think this might play out then, as a developer? Am I going to have a bunch of agents that, you know, I've kind of assigned to different tasks and they're specialists of that, and then you as a developer will have a bunch of agents that you have and maybe our agents will find some way to collaborate as we kind of build something together? Or is it gonna be more like there'll be a team of us and certain agents will be available to the entire team to perform a task and we won't have to negotiate as many agent interactions, if that makes sense to you?

Um, yes. Uh, how it'll be, um, I think it more depends not on the technology of the ai, but, uh, on the psychology of people, because people, um, um, last several centuries and maybe, uh, during the whole history where the, like the best, uh, uh, thing that stops, prevents the progress that, uh, lowers the velocity of progress. So we will see a lot of pushback from, uh, people, uh, not understanding, um, what it can do, how it can work, uh, and, uh, the only thing that, uh, uh, the, the, the best thing that can, um, change the mind of people is money.

Uh, and, uh, uh, when, um, applying ai, um, in all like, uh, uh, in environments such as, uh, uh, marketing and design, et cetera, will, uh, definitely result in more money. Uh, people will, uh, uh, adapt. But, um, uh, returning to your specific question, uh, I think that, um, it won't be the same across the, uh, uh, all industry.

So, uh, this, uh, um, programmers will adapt first, uh, then designers. And, uh, I don't think that, um, programmers will, uh, share the pool of agents between them, uh, because each programmer has its own style. And, uh, what, um, AI changes in computers is that, uh, people start to perceive it as a, uh, not a human, but, uh, some, um, being that has, uh, its own character.

So, for example, me, uh, I, uh, already have some process in my mind, uh, uh, when I face a task, uh, which model will be better to, uh, uh, use for this specific task. So I, uh, like fulfill them with some character and, uh, talk to them. And, um, some, um, characters are better for me.

Some characters are better for oth for others. So I, um, um, believe more in personalization, uh, than like, uh, um, universalization of the AI pools. But, uh, it what, uh, will definitely be true that, uh, for example, in programming, uh, and it's the same with design, with marketing.

Uh, every team has a set of rules, for example, code style, uh, tone of voice for marketing, uh, style of, uh, design style for design. And it'll be shared. But, uh, I, uh, be, uh, I believe that people will prefer, uh, personnels personalized agents, uh, as they prefer, um, uh, some people to other in real life and to collaborate with, uh, and some people, um, rather than others.

Of course, the models are not perfect, and neither are people, but are we maybe in danger of trusting the models and the agents? Too much can we don't do enough to review that code, and then we'll get bit by it later. Um, this is, this will be essential, um, essential, uh, skill, uh, from now on to first to review.

And, uh, then what makes me extremely happy as a, as a programmer, uh, it makes, uh, people to learn how to, uh, like, uh, describe a task because, uh, when the people, non-technical people describe task to technical people, they are very vogue. And, uh, just do something and, uh, read, read my mind with, uh, with models, it doesn't work. Uh, models, uh, are not as flexible, uh, as humans.

And, uh, uh, like they have no emotions. So if you want to benefit from them, you have to adapt. You have to explain better.

So I see how non-technical people are actually learning how to, uh, express, uh, their mind to, uh, models. And, uh, it results in a better, um, explaining what do they want from other people. Uh, uh, I, uh, like it, uh, very much.

And, um, uh, when, if we return to coding, or of course, um, the, the, the feeling, uh, of, um, WW was did it right or did it wrong, uh, it's the key, um, skill that, uh, future, uh, programmers need to, uh, ex execute to benefit from ai and not to struggle because of, uh, um, clean vibe, vibe, coding results. Um, yes, of course, uh, we can trust them, but, uh, when you have experience, you can judge and you also learn better how to explain. So, uh, for example, uh, when I started, uh, my, let's say vibe coding, uh, exercises, uh, I was completely different person.

I, uh, tried to explain and then see the result. Today, I spent more time designing AI prompts with help of AI before I send the prompt to ai. And, uh, we, as I said, we are in the middle of revolution and, um, um, the taste, the style, um, uh, things that, uh, currently not, uh, accessible for, uh, models and, um, currently we need it for it.

So you mentioned vibe coding, and I wonder, um, we've seen the rise of citizen developers and low-code, no-code tools and vibe coding might be the next iteration of that, but those people don't necessarily always think logically, shall we say. And so, are we gonna see professional developers spending more time cleaning up some sort of prototype built by a citizen developer? And that may be part of the job of developers going forward?

Yes, but, uh, I very, very happy that it's happening actually, that people can, uh, as, as I said, they are given the AI programmer, basically, they tell, uh, uh, this thing what to do, and, uh, receive result. They become better at expressing themself. They, uh, receive this joy of creation.

Uh, it's not a joy of consuming something. It joy of, it's a joy of creating something. People execute the creativity.

Um, you know, people build people, uh, express themself. Uh, I actually love it so much, so I'm not, uh, skeptical about vibe coding at all. Um, but yes, we, we should, uh, communicate to them better that, uh, uh, vibe coded products, uh, can have security flows, can have scaling flows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Because the feeling of power when, uh, something, uh, like created by you so easily, uh, like, uh, uh, drains all your skepticism, skepticism, you become like optimistic and you, you are powerful. Um, and it's a very good thing, but it's also dangerous. So, um, we, we, uh, just need to, um, educate them better.

But returning to money, uh, or when you say that, uh, programmers in the future will have to, um, like, um, uh, clean a lot of code, uh, that was, uh, c created because of vibe coding, but if they have to, it means that there are money. Uh, so it means that this product is needed. So, um, I still think, uh, it's a good thing first, second model will evolve and, uh, third, we will adapt.

But my me, like, uh, myself, I have 20 years of, uh, commercial programmer experience, and majority of my, uh, work is with legacy code basis, uh, who that, uh, were maintained by, uh, a lot of developers through, uh, long time. And I did vibe code cleaning, uh, from, from my whole life, and I learned a lot from it. Uh, and I, uh, this way I received, uh, my own, uh, taste and style.

And, uh, again, I don't think, uh, there is, uh, any problem with it. If you don't want to clean coat, just don't clean it. Uh, but if, uh, someone wants you to clean the coat, uh, it means that, uh, uh, she or he wants to pay you money.

It means someone wants to pay money to them. It means that, uh, people are, um, uh, communication via these products, and it's a good thing. Mm.

So some people would say that we're about to create more software in the next two years than we have in the last decade. I mean, do you agree with that? And are, and are a lot of these applications gonna be, I don't know, disposable?

How do you see this all evolving? I, I see it already. I can't, uh, like, um, keep up with all the releases of all of the software, and I also, uh, write in my own pet project on, uh, holidays, on, uh, weekends.

Um, yes. But, um, audience is limited, uh, and the amount of software, software is growing. So, um, it will be very challenging to, for software to find, uh, an audience, uh, in such situation because, um, like, uh, the, uh, in, in the market, we have this, um, uh, uh, DD balance between, uh, what's provided and, uh, or what's needed.

Um, so a lot of, uh, those, uh, vibe coded or AI or, uh, in products that, uh, are releasing as we speak, uh, will be abundant, of course, uh, which is, uh, a good thing to, I, of course, it's spent CPU cycles spent, energy spent, um, um, venture capitalist money. But, uh, I believe that, uh, it's not that important because, uh, uh, more people are, uh, able to execute their creativity. Creativity.

And for me, it means that, uh, humanity becomes a better thing than it was. All right, well, folks, you heard it here. We're entering a new era, there's no doubt about that.

And right now there are some negatives, but there's a lot more positives than there are negatives and a lot more, more to be gained. Alex, thanks for being on the show. Uh, thanks so much.

Um, I was very happy to join. All right, I'm back to you guys in the studio.