Flipping the Script: The Premiere of ‘The Women in Security’ Documentary at RSAC

Hey, I'm John Swartz, and we are at RSAC. It's day one in San Francisco. We're at the Moscone South Auditorium, so to speak, on Broadcasting Row.

So to our left and to our right, there are a number of booth setups. And we're gonna start this week on a very strong note, on a very important note. We're gonna talk about a documentary that is going to premiere tomorrow and be shown also Wednesday here at RSAC.

And with me are the lovely Aarti Gadia and Kristen Rank, who are involved in this, I think, it's incredibly interesting documentary called The Women in Security. Um, first off, welcome to the show. Thank you.

Welcome to San Francisco. I think you came in from Sacramento. Aarti, I'm not sure where- I came from Vancouver, Canada.

Oh, nice. Yeah. Beautiful city.

Yes. Beautiful city. Thank you.

Um, tell me a little bit about this documentary and, and when it's gonna premiere and, and kind of the idea behind it. Yes. Well, this documentary...

First, viewers, happy Women's History Month. And, this documentary took us five years in the making. So just before COVID, we started.

" It's been a long journey, and we're finally here after five years. We're gonna be showing this documentary. And super excited to show it here at the premiere.

We've had several different premieres across different cities, and we're gonna be showing it here in San Francisco at the RSA Conference. Um, it's directed, by the way, by Yvette Freeman. It is.

Yes. And, Kristen, tell me a little bit about the, the idea or the, the, kind of the narrative. I...

So from what I understand, it involves, the idea of women in this cybersecurity realm- Mm-hmm ... which unfortunately the numbers are low. They're getting better- Yes ...

over the last decade, they have improved. But is this primarily about that challenge or that issue of, of women in, in the industry? Or is it, so- even something more than that?

I mean, I think it's, something more than that, but it is about women in the industry and some of the things that we face being, you know, in this industry. It's not always easy, but it's a tremendously rewarding industry to be in. Um, Richard and Yvette did a great job narrating, the challenges and some of the interesting opportunities that we face being women in this, in cybersecurity.

So tell me a little... So you're both... Are you both in the documentary?

Are you both on camera? I'm not in the documentary. Aarti is.

Aarti, I know you are. Yes. 'Cause I saw a clip.

Um, and are you, are you involved in the, uh... What was your involvement? I've gotten more inv- I've gotten more involved because of Aarti.

Okay. Um, so I've done more or less fundraising to help get the, movie at, at, the Metreon. So I've done- Okay ...

the fundraising. By the way, the Metreon, which is across the street- Across the street. Yep ...

from here. Uh, the premiere is Tuesday at 4:00 PM. Uh- Doors open at 4:00 PM.

Yeah. And also Wednesday- Yep, at 4:00 ... there's a red carpet, starts at- Yep ...

4:00 PM. That's right. The screening's at 4:45.

Mm-hmm. Sorry. Yeah.

Uh, how long is the documentary? And, uh- So yeah, the documentary's 75 minutes long. Awesome.

And, yeah, it's, it's, again, back to what you mentioned, it shows, our journey, how we started in the industry. We also talk about some of the allies who have supported us along the journey. It's, it's such an exciting documentary, and we've had such a big impact when viewers have watched it.

" I... There's so much great feedback that we've gotten. So you mentioned in, in, I think in the press materials, allyship.

Yes. Now, I was unfamiliar. I know what the concept is, but I was unfamiliar with the word.

Is that something that has kinda picked up and is now resonating and, and maybe has something to do with these slowly i- improving numbers? Yeah. Lots of allies have helped us across- Mm-hmm ...

in our journey. Lots. A lot of them.

Lots, yeah, a lot of great men. So we wanna appreciate the allies who've actually walked the walk and really supported, not just this documentary, but supported lots of different initiatives. So that's how we're gonna accelerate change, is, you know, we have 25% women in the industry.

And of course, we want to accelerate that change. And the way we can accelerate cha- that change is have more voices, and that's where we need all the allies to join us in this mission so that we can have more women join the industry. Mm-hmm.

So I'm gonna ask you, I don't wanna put you on the spot, but in terms of the allies, who are some of the stronger allies, if you could point out? Are there certain companies or individuals in the, in, within cybersecurity have championed? So many great men.

Yeah. There are a lot of great men who have helped, us along- Okay ... the way.

I mean, the list is long. Yes. Um, but from a company perspective, I mean, I think all the companies that are supporting the documentary.

Yeah. All, all- Oh, yeah, you had mentioned a few actually. Yes.

Yeah. Right. Lots of them.

I mean, Centra's supported... Uh, we work at Centra. They've supported this documentary in the documentary itself and some of the premieres across the country.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So back to that is just the, these, these sponsors all have CEOs who are also allies, and, it, they are aligned with our mission.

Was there... I mean, was there a, an event or was there kind of a tipping point where there was more of an emphasis on allyship? Or is this something that kind of slowly has evolved and percolated?

I think it's maybe slowly evolved- Yeah ... the allyship. Um, I think that once people see the doctu- documentary and they hear about being an ally, then they're like, "I wanna sign up.

" Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, that's just something I was gonna ask you about. Is there something that y- you think stands out that you want people to walk away after watching this to remember?

Like you mentioned some people talking about al- allyships. Mm-hmm. Um, are there certain points in the documentary that you think are particularly poignant or particularly important to, that you wanna call out?

Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, the stories that many women have shared- Mm-hmm ... that, people can resonate, with.

Uh, we've had at the premieres some people bring their daughters. So it inspires- Mm ... them to join this industry, right?

From that very young age, they look at it because-Growing up, I didn't know about this industry. Yeah. And, had I known about it, it would've been something I would've worked towards.

I just fell into it by accident. Um- How, how did you- Yeah ... so was it a friend or somebody at- So actually, when I'd first moved to Canada, I was looking for a job, and I couldn't find a job.

" And I'm like, "I know antivirus. Uh, sign me up," because the bills are going up, and I needed a job being new in the country. And that's how I joined, and I've stayed ever since.

Was, um... what's, what's the state of STEM like? I mean, it...

I remember we, we ta- so full disclosure, 15 years ago, a, a couple of colleagues and me at... when we were at USA Today, worked on a series of stories about DEI. Mm-hmm.

This was during a d- a who- totally different era. It was during the Obama administration. And we, got the ear of Jesse Jackson at the time, and he did a real push into this, in tech in general.

Mm-hmm. And, some of the comp- the companies responded- Mm-hmm ... somewhat, I think, under pressure.

And, and they did make moves, but then that kind of dissipated after Obama left office. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I'm kind of wondering, that was a key tenet was the st- the education system was just...

I, I... to even be even broader, I mean, it w- it, it didn't push mathematics, engineering, tech for either sex as hard as it, maybe it does now. And I'm, I'm wondering, has the STEM ed- has that education system...

is it improved from m- maybe even from the junior high and the high school levels up through college? Potentially. I mean, I don't have children, so I'm not...

it's so s- I'm not- Oh, okay ... you know. I don't have...

I don't know. Um, but I would think so. I mean, if you think about, think about it.

L- all the kids that are coming out of school, and they wanna go to the best schools because they wanna go to the best tech schools or, f- schools for their various the, for science or whatever. Um, so I think so. I, I don't...

but I'm not an expert in that field- I think, yeah ... by any means. Just to add what she said is representation matters.

When women see other women in different roles- Yeah ... then that inspires them. And when they don't see that, I'll tell you, my niece, who had, uh...

there was a program where she saw a female, who was a pilot, and she straightaway told me she didn't see that before. And when rep- when she doesn't see representation, she doesn't see that as a career for her. And I think now more and more women are getting into these roles that even the next generation get inspired to see, "Well, I can do that too," or, "That is a career for me," which is something that we didn't see years back.

Yeah. I wonder, and we talked a little bit about this before we went on air, the influence of AI- Yeah ... and how has- Mm ...

it helped or hindered women in cybersecurity and whe- whether it levels the playing field. And I think you made a really interesting point about how women are much more aggressive adopters of the technology from what you've seen. Yes, definitely.

Just even... I've done my own research within my own family and friends and network, and I see the women, including myself, even in the- Yeah ... workplace- Yeah.

Yeah ... we are adopting AI at a faster rate than the men in, that I've seen within my own family and network and friends. And this, this is a skill set that we are a- Mm-hmm ...

as we're adopting this faster, we're now starting to get ahead of the game in terms of the skill set. And I see that change. It's, it's, it's a big shift.

And my hope, of course, is to make sure that employers see that shift, and that increases their mindset, "Well, let's start... let's not tr- hire traditionally. " And women definitely, like I said, are adopting AI at a faster rate that I've seen.

How have you... and personally, how have you each adopted AI? How do you use it?

Or how is it- I use it every day. Oh, uh- She uses it every day ... from...

yeah, every day. Like, literally ev- every... even, even at the workplace, even outside the workplace.

Mm-hmm. So many... yeah, we- Every day ...

definitely use it every day. It's, it's irony is that, you know, it's, it... college graduates are having a harder, as hard a time as ever getting jobs out of college.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you could attribute that perhaps to AI displacing certain types of jobs.

Right. But I also think in the ter- in terms of cybersecurity, there's never gonna be as much, demand for any people who are experts in that, cybersecurity, given what's going on with AI. And this conference, I think, is gonna probably drive that home with the, I think the emergence of OpenClaw and just all these incidents involving companies with security breaches that are attributed, attributable in some way to AI.

So perhaps that also has an influence. Yeah. I mean, look at it.

The attackers are using AI at a fast rate too, right? And so that, of course, we, we've also got to be mindful of that, that they're using it faster. They're getting smarter in their techniques, and that's where, you know, fr- from a defender's perspective, we have to make sure we keep up with it, right?

And remove all the barriers to entry 'cause the attackers don't have barriers to entry, right? Right. Um, k- again, get back to your career.

So when you got into cybersecurity, when you first joined the field, what was your impression? W- was... I mean, you were...

were there a lot of other women who worked in your company or with you at that time or...? No. I was, I was the only person when I first joined.

I didn't see it initially, right, when I joined, but when I did see it was when I was applying for a promotion and for that next role, and I didn't get it even though I was the top performer. And that's when I started seeing, well, I don't look like what the persona is of those who go into that next level. Right.

Um, there is an unconscious bias that we all need to address. We all have our own unco- Yeah ... our own biases- Yeah ...

and we need to make sure we recognize them and that's how we're going to break the issues, the systemic issues that we see today, is we have to figure out what our own bias is and start breaking out of it. Are there... Is that addressed in the documentary?

Like, prescriptive measures that can be taken to, accelerate the hiring of women in cybersecurity? Are there- It's touched upon- Yeah ... in the documentary- It- ...

by a couple of different ladies who are in the documentary. Yeah. Um, what, what are their, I mean, what are their ideas?

Are... Okay if you could share what, what they think might, might reverse course. I don't know what some of their ideas are- Yeah ...

off, off my head. But it's just generally just showing, like, there's a great story, which I don't wanna re- reveal, but it's just a great story of how someone spoke up, for example. Mm-hmm.

Right? And a lot of us, sometimes we lose our voice, but when you do see something like that, allies can come in and step in- Mm-hmm ... and, make sure it's appropriate to support or, or call out when something is wrong versus being silent.

Yeah. So. So, yeah.

It- it's, like, an interesting era that we're living in right now. We are talking about all these AI influence layoffs or job tumult. And I'm, I, I'm...

For s- cybersecurity I think might be one of the safer areas, so to speak. I don't know if you agree with that, but in tech, it s- it, it seems to be open season on most jobs. Yes.

And, it... Perhaps in cybersecurity that won't, that won't be as much the case. I don't...

We, we just don't know, but, um- No. That also brings me to this other question. Yeah.

I'm me- I'm mentioning AI because from what I understand, there is a sequel of sorts in the works to this- Yeah ... documentary. There is.

There is. Yes. And it involves AI?

Yeah. Yeah. There is a sequel.

Part of the sequel is going to be, still in discussions, around AI, because it, it, everybody's talking about it, and so there is gonna be that sequel coming up. Mm-hmm. Wow.

Um, tell me a little... Oh. Yeah.

We need to promote this. So this is very import- I mean, this is a very important topic. We've written about this at, at Techstrong on Security Boulevard website, and, something that my colleague, Terry Robinson, is gonna be writing a lot more about.

And, I'm sure she'll write about this if I don't. Uh, one of us will write about it. And I wanna bring it up- Thank you ...

on Techstrong Gang. Uh, it's, it's interesting the film festivals. Can you mention s- some of the film festivals this appeared in?

Also, can you share with us how this will reach an even broader audience later this month perhaps? Yeah. We've actually been doing it...

We've won several awards too, Best Director, Best Writer, because of showing this across different cities. Um, right now, like what we've been doing is hosting it at, different cities, whether it's at a theater or at the AMC. And so we've done quite a few actually.

We've done close to 20, I believe, uh- All across the country ... across the country- And Canada ... and Canada too.

So we're excited about this because it's now raising more awareness, it's getting people excited about it, and, and coming soon it's gonna be on a very big platform too that we just announced. Oh, can you- Yeah ... can you share that platform?

Yes. We can. So it's gonna be on Prime.

Uh, we just- Ig- ... announced it last week, that it's gonna be on Prime. And, stay tuned because you'll see it, by April timeframe.

Yeah. Um, what is the audience's reaction been to this, and is it a pre- di- is it a kind of split between men and women or- 100%. It's a split between men and women.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And some men will bring their daughters. I was gonna ask- Yeah. Yeah ...

you that. A lot of k- a lot of daughters who go. There are.

Yeah. There have been a lot of daughters. And they, and, like, the...

It's the after the movies, that's what's been so fun, is seeing all the promotion, all the, how much they loved it, and just all the activity. Do they... They must have felt inspired by it- Yeah ...

and encouraged. Like, we've got so many. After each documentary screening, we've got like feedback, people posting on LinkedIn- Mm-hmm ...

about it, taking pictures, and sharing their overall experience. And this is a great way to celebrate the women who have made a big impact in our industry. There's 21 of us in the film.

And, you know, it's a great way to celebrate these women, including other women who are going through the same journey. " They'd never thought about it. Mm.

I heard daughters saying, "I didn't think this was a career. " Mm-hmm. " Which, you know, the one th- one thing you also had mentioned earlier was build and retain, build and retention.

Yeah. Could you maybe go a little bit into that and, and kind of where, where that- Yeah ... that state is?

Yeah, definitely. I think you were talking about the retention, I think. Yeah.

So the focus has been, you know, let's hire more women, which is fantastic. So we've seen that change, and we're s- we're seeing we're now at 25% women in this industry. We need to accelerate that change.

But what happens when you bring the women in? Let's start looking at the next step. How are you gonna grow them?

How are you gonna promote them? How are you gonna get them into these senior executive levels? Because the numbers go down as they go into that executive level.

It goes to less, you know, less than 10%. Mm-hmm. And that's where the issue is.

If women find that area where they can't grow anymore, they'll leave, and that's one of the things we've got to fix, fix that broken rung, which is help women, and champion them so that they can go into that next stage. Give them that opportunity. Remove your own bias so you can hire more women into that next level.

That always seemed- Allyship ... sorry. I think that's what- Yeah ...

the allyship with, with men, 'cause mostly there's men in those roles- Yeah ... where they could help promote women. Yeah.

I, I... It'd be interesting to see how the ecosystem works as, as maybe more women start companies that- Yeah ... kind of they, they, they hire more women to work within those companies.

I remember that-That dynamic playing out in tech to certain extents. But it always came back to i- the, the numbers were specifically low in terms of the C-suite. Yeah.

And I think they- Yeah ... still are in tech. They still are.

I mean from danger- dramatically low, um. We do in the documentary, but not in the documentary, but we do have one of our, one of our sponsors, for the next couple of days, she's a s- first time founder and CEO, female. Um, and so we're happy to have her company- Yeah ...

Schematic, with us on the documentary, or, at the sponsorship. So I don't want you to, to talk, on behalf of Yvette, but I'm gonna ask you, what, what was it that prompted her to wanna make this with, make this documentary? Had she made documentaries before?

She- So she wasn't making the documentary, she's sponsoring, right? I mean, no, he's talking about Yvette. Oh.

Oh, Yvette. Oh, Yvette. Oh, the director, yeah.

Oh, Yvette. So I'm wondering if this is her fir- if this is her first documentary and... I mean, for- Yeah ...

I mean, I even think about, let's go back to the Oscars. I, I was kinda blown away that the, the, the, the lady who won, Best Cinematographer was the first woman to win- Yeah ... cinematography.

Yeah. I- I found that almost hard to believe. Yeah.

Um, and I'm wondering if that's kind of the same case in, in, in terms of documentaries and, and whether... what- what spurred your director to make this? Yeah.

So I mean, the, the producer was the one who had the connection with Yvette. Okay. And so- Okay ...

I mean, sh- she aligned with the story, and she, she did a phenomenal job directing this, documentary. So it was, it was aligned to what she, she enjoyed doing, and she's done a phenomenal job. Yeah.

So I'm gonna ask you, I think we've promoted the, the, the documentary. We'll promote it again before we go off. Yeah.

Thank you. But, what I was gonna ask you about the show and what you're looking forward to at the show. Um, were, any type of topics or type of products or type of areas of cybersecurity that have your interest?

Yeah. I mean, I think obviously wanna hear what everybody's up to. Obviously, it's, we're gonna hear so much about AI.

Mm-hmm. But also, new product announcements, new mergers and acquisitions. Um, that's, I mean, that's what I'm interested in hearing about.

Yeah. It's g- it's, uh- At my conference usually. Yeah.

Yeah. Is, is there, is there anything in particular that you're- Yeah. No, I just wanna add, that's basically, like, with the conference here, super excited about just, meeting lots of people- Awesome ...

and hearing where they are. Awesome. Yeah.

Well, again, the name of the documentary is The Women in Security. Documentary. Uh, Tuesday and Wednesday, 24th to the 25th.

4:45 screening for each day. Yes, for each day. S- drinks and popcorn is gonna be included.

Oh, nice. Yeah. Cool.

Uh, so there's gonna be networking from 4:00 to 45, 4:45, so come early. Yep. And, save your seat.

Uh, make sure you register, and you can find us at our booth. At our booth. Uh, the Centra booth, which is 4607, so you can register and secure your seat.

Okay. And it's gonna be at the AMC Metreon 16, which is near Moscone, isn't it? Yes.

Right across the street. Fourth Street. Yeah.

135. You can't miss it. It's right off, I think it's right off of, uh- Fiker ...

yes. Yeah. Right across.

Right across. I can, you can see it. Literally walking distance.

You can see it right there. So if you can get to Moscone South, you can find the theater. Yeah.

Totally. Um, thank you so much for your time. Yeah.

You guys were great. And, I look forward to seeing it. Yeah.

Um, good luck. I hope you can make it. Yeah.

I'm gonna make it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. I was part of a...

I told you this earlier. I shouldn't say this, but I will. Okay.

Who cares? I was part of a documentary about cybersecurity a long time ago, and I was one of the talking heads, and I, I am ashamed to tell you that there were maybe 20 talking heads in that documentary, and there was maybe one woman. One woman.

So- Yeah ... hopefully we've kind of reversed course- ... and flipped the switch.

Yeah. Um... No, I'm excited.

Yeah. I'm super excited about it, so. All right.

It's gonna be good. All right, thanks. So we're gonna have more interviews coming up later today.

Um, at a... Very soon, actually. I'm John Swartz with, Tekstron Group, and thank you for watching