Evolving Legacy IT – Venkat Pillay, CloudFrame

This is texturing TV. Hey everyone, welcome back to techstrong TV. I've got a CEO founder to introduce you to he hasn't been on our show before his name is venkat.

Pillai and the company's name. I believe is cloud frame and hopefully I got that right venkat. Welcome.

You got it perfectly right? You got a perfectly good pronunciation there. I try.

Thank you very much for coming on. Thank God, you know beyond being the CEO founder of cloud frame here. Give us share with us a little bit kind of what you know, what's your story?

yeah, and my story started out with Mainframe, so I started out as a mainframer and a lot of people today, you know people think that Mainframe what Mainframe right are they still there? And yes 50 years strong. Large organization traditional organization.

I mean they still run on a Mainframe financials manufacturing oil and gas telecom companies huge amount of processing. The only thing we don't hear about them is because they run in the background. So I started my career as systems as an application programmer.

I was a systems programmer. I was a hardcore database administrator db2 on zos, which is the Mainframe operating system. So that's how I started back back in those days somewhere around 2002 2003.

I wrote a software for Merrill Lynch. That was the first web services were coming up. You remember like they were draft people were thinking about it.

I said, how about we enable the whole Mainframe as a web service so we came up with this idea. We you know, we know in socialized it within Maryland said great idea. We named it X for ML XML for Merrill Lynch became a real hit metal.

Sorry. Okay, we are a financial company. We are not really into software business.

They sold the software to us software, which is a startup company in those days. I moved because you know the whole software I developed for metal. It's a Metals IP and everything.

And then SOS software was really excited because it was all about SOA. Right? So so I enabled we made a really good progress back in those days Financial companies.

They loved it. We sold it to Bear Stearns credits ways, you know PFG BNSF a lot of companies and then 2000 hit financial crisis. People also started catch up like IBM card up with it.

IBM came up with the kicks web services and the whole financial crisis didn't really help I moved back. It came to Bank of America. I was Enterprise architect did there just emerging technology strategy and all those things and then realize that I have background in Legacy said, can you do like a legacy modernization for us?

So I created initial Legacy modernization strategy for the bank, but then, you know working with the startup company working in a big Corporation. I felt like I think it's time I should really do another startup and I what I knew was really, you know Mainframe. I knew Cloud was new back in those days mobile was new and I was thinking like what do I do?

I said let me do something which I know really well and there is a real problem and I know every organization have a desire to do something about the whole Mainframe modernization devops started coming new people started thinking about devops and everything and the Mainframe had this long release cycle people used to go. This rainfall model nine months release cycle a year release cycle and everybody else, you know outside people were talking about agile methodology. How can we do things faster?

So I said, let me start a company Cloud frame and the whole idea of cloud frame was that to give this organization a a choice to modernize their Mainframe portfolio and all all along people have been thinking about Mainframe modernization as a binary solution. You know what we're gonna We're gonna have this Silver Bullet magically, we're gonna get out of the Mainframe and get you into a distributed world and then everything is going to work hunky dory. It's not that easy something that has been developed for 50 years where you have trillions of transactions running huge amount of data so much of interdependence.

You can't just shut it down. That's the core of their business right organization just can't just shut it down. So when we came up with the cloud frame we said we got to give a solution for the organization where they have a risk free incremental modernization.

They see the value. They see the cost cost benefit and it should be a model where they can you know do a cost saving and use that money for modernization. I mean, that's the only way you can justify the business.

It's not an it only problem. It's also business problem. There is a risk involved here in every sense of it.

So that's what we do at cloudframe. We are very proud to serve large traditional Enterprise who have Mainframe and the modernize their Mainframe portfolio Thank you. I was great.

What a great story too. You know our audience is no stranger to this, right? We do a show every month called the open Mainframe and partnership with the open Mainframe project from Linux Foundation.

Okay project Zoe and a bunch of other things. Yes. We've been covering.

com recently, you know originally IBM sort of embraced this whole modernization. Kind of movement around Mainframe and they did so much. Marrying Mainframe backends to cloud-based front ends, right and and making the Mainframe run on today's language is not just COBOL and what have you and use a lot of today's, you know, kind of devops Technology.

recently the open Mainframe group started like a modernization committee or working group, right and and what I find interesting that kind about it is the people on in that working group. Are I'm from this side of the spectrum to this side of the spectrum on this side. You have people who want to continue using the Mainframe because dollar for dollar.

It's still the most efficient secure. You know platform out there. And then on this side you have people who say well modernization is sort of a code word for migrating off of mainframes to you know, more modern cloud architectures and what have you and and somewhere is the middle I guess right?

So I guess my question to you is we're you know Legacy it you're right. Not just oil or energy Finance Health Care. I forgot who it was, but I read a quote.

You know, if we if we had a catastrophe like on our electric grid, it would be a real catastrophe. And but we've recover and figure it out if the mainframes of the world stopped working civilization would grind to a halt right? and and it was something along those lines.

I might have messed it up. But where do you kind of sit on this? Do we?

Is there a place for the Mainframe? married to cloud or do we Is there is it a migratory path off of me frames to whatever's next? I I am a mainframer, right so I would say yes, there is a place for the Mainframe but like you said, right every organization I go I see people into camps and people who are very religious about it.

And this is that's it. The Mainframe is the only way and then people who are born on the cloud and they don't know what Mainframe is and this is you know, how the hell I can get out of this mess, right? They think it's a mess.

I think the reality I'm very practical the reality somewhere in between. Here's what happened. The mainframes are great platform and look at IBM has spent so much of money and effort or into the hardware.

It's a great Hardware. It's 64-bit operating system and I Remember like I bought an iPhone 3 for my daughter back once a few years later. I mean a year a few months later.

Apple came up with iPhone 4 and then all the apps in iPhone 3 start working. I had no choice but to buy an iPhone 4 and you take a look at Mainframe today. They're 64-bit operating system is still work with a software that was written 50 years ago, which was meant to run on an eight bit Hardware.

So how much Backward Compatible it is. That's a good thing and a bad thing. You know, it's a good thing that IBM is Backward Compatible a great Hardware problem is you still have a legacy application and those applications are really hard to maintain the people who did originally 40 years ago.

They either got promoted in the organization. They're no longer required. They retired they're gone and there is a story where everybody says.

Yeah, no big deal. You know, we have a lot of mainstream Global program. Reality is they are very shallow.

I have seen I have interviewed tons of Mainframe programmers. They are very good. They're very enthusiastic.

They need to learn but they don't have the same knowledge that people back in those days. There came 50 years ago who were born with the Mainframe? It's not the same and it will take some time to get now.

The question is all the people will come up and pick up all the Legacy technology. So you have a great Hardware. What about the software?

Right. IBM says, oh we have a Java it runs great on hard Mainframe Hardware. Yes and cloudframe actually gives you an ability to run your Java on the Mainframe is a first class citizen.

We are the only vendor in the space that will allow you to modernize and run it on zos and now you're not going to find many many there. That's one thing you you have python but what happens is there is still an inertia and Zoe they have, you know, whole open source system of soil then a great job great adoption people are using it but there is still a problem. There is a divide between mainstream world and a non-frame main framework and that's where I become very practical.

I say you're gonna have for quite some time people who are going to be really hard stuck on the Mainframe and Cloud frame. We give them an option to modernize and run it on Z. It's a great platform by the way, Java runs great on Mainframe and cloudframe makes it a first class.

It isn't as I mentioned about what what I really see another Trend going on and it's real by. Is real the people really really are trying to figure it out how they can cut down their usage on the Mainframe. And the main reason is the whole mainframes capacity based model is creating a problem for the organization.

It's very expensive. So IBM has done said, okay, we're gonna give you a zip engine and your zip engine's are cheaper. It's gonna be really cost-effective.

But then Java can run on a zip engine but is Java really picking up on the Mainframe? I don't see that much and IBM has done a great job till z14. They added a lot of Hardware instruction for Java but not much changes in z15 Z16.

They started kind of cooling down and Java. So I do see people are gonna go Cloud native the devops on the cloud side are gonna you know, it's it's gonna stay dominant. People are looking gonna look at the new new way new patterns the 12 Factor app, and how can we leverage outside the Mainframe world?

So I think that trend has started and it's trickling down. It's gonna happen. I don't know how long it will take, but it will.

Yeah. No, I agree. There's a lot of money invested in those mainframes though, but venkat, you know, so so we've we've we've we've enunciated a fact pattern here right that you you have to navigate and my goodness.

It seems like you have to be like a Nobel Peace Prize winner to navigate the the thing here make because you can't make everyone happy all the time. No talk to us when you go in when you're going in now, you know to these large Enterprises around, you know, the Legacy it modernization. What is it exactly you're doing and telling people that can't you know makes as many of them happy as we can and lets them accomplish what their goals are.

I think we have a great study. Yeah, we're going to the organization and whether we talk to the main framers or we talked to the non-framers there people look at it in Cloud frame. They all agree on one thing.

They all agree that yes, you know. Java is great. It has to be the first class cities on a zos or even if it is not zos, it gives us an ability to run anywhere.

So when I talk to the Mainframe people will say I love the story. You know, can you I see two type of people on the Mainframe are people who say Just don't touch my COBOL application integrated create a transpiler which we do by the way and run it as Java because it's all of sudden leverages the power of Mainframe. I can increase my capacity horizontally on the zip engines.

No, I don't have I don't just need general purpose processor because Java can leverage that dependent. It just creates more capacity for them at a cheaper cost people love that story, especially who are a hardcore mainframer. I also see people who are kind of in between this is, you know, can you give me a way where I can add more Java on the Mainframe so I see a far and few in between in those space, but I see a lot more people who are on the other side.

This is give me something that I can take it off run it outside run it in fit into my outside Mainframe devops have my program or Java programmer who know nothing about Mainframe by the way, can they take the code generated by you which which we provide 100% conversion and people find Hard to believe the code converter can be good and we say yeah, we can approve you. It's not going to be like a human written. Of course.

It's not it will take some time but If your Java programmer who has no Mainframe knowledge can manage these Java maintain this Java. I think we solve their problem and that's what we do for the people who are who are looking to move out of Mainframe. So, I mean the story people everybody likes us.

It doesn't matter which side of the fence they are on. Excellent. You're very care.

I told you these the 15 minute interviews were way over that already. I I enjoy talking about what we wanted. So Cloud frame.

People want to get more information. Where do they go? com.

That's our website. We can go there by the way open Mainframe. We were there in the open maintenance Summit in Philadelphia devops and other things.

Yeah, yeah, we did a report with that. You know, we're gonna have to get you on that show at some point. We'd love to have you.

Hey keep doing what you doing because you know what? Mainframes aren't going away today or tomorrow if you need this exactly thanks for being our Tech strong TV and telling us all about Cloud frame and and this topic come back and keep us posted. Okay?

Thanks for having me. It was it was a pleasure. Thank you.

Very cat. All right, we're gonna take a break here on Tech strong TV. We'll be back in a moment.