Evolution of Application Environments in the Cloud Computing Era – Scott White, DoiT

This is Techron tv. Hey guys, thanks for the throw. We're here with Scott White, who's chief operations and revenue officer for Do It, and we're talking about, um, what's happening in the age of the cloud in the wake of their recent expansion of a deal with AWS.

And it's just a whole new ballgame as far as I can tell. Scott, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks, Mike.

You bet. Um, the world's changing fast. So good to, uh, be here today, today and talk to you about it.

One of the things that we initially saw back in the day was we lifted and shifted applications and, you know, like it or not, it was kinda like, you know, we'll just run your mess over here instead of where it used to be. Now we're seeing the rise of these cloud native applications. We're starting to see AI machine learning.

Um, we're starting to see cloud applications that reach out all the way to the edge. Walk me through what you guys are seeing, what's different and what are the challenges? Yeah, I would say that, um, your, your, um, kind of overview there is spot on.

We are seeing a lot of our customers, uh, go from, uh, whether maybe you call it ver v one of cloud, which was get into the cloud, uh, lift and shift and move to, um, you know, kind of the compute network storage view of the world into more native applications. And, um, when you do that, the expertise required, um, and the just knowledge of the cloud is, is much greater. And so, uh, that's what we do, uh, with our customers, with our technology, um, and our services is help customers, uh, make that jump, uh, into, uh, more native services and get deeper into, uh, the real, uh, value of cloud.

How much do customers wanna manage the infrastructure themselves these days? How much do they lean on the cloud service provider who manages the applications? I mean, it feels like a lot more folks wanna focus on writing custom apps, but what's your sense of where the balance is shifting?

Yeah, I think that's a good question. And I, um, I think this goes back to the first point of, uh, you know, kind of compute network storage versus native services. Um, you know, compute network storage world, you're still managing infrastructure.

And when you think about native services, you really get into, uh, offloading that to the cloud service provider. And I think that's one of the big values. It's, uh, you know, we do cost analysis every day for our customers thinking about, um, you know, what's the cost of, uh, operating my own infrastructure, even if that infrastructure's in the cloud versus, uh, thinking about using native services.

And, uh, that does have a, you know, a cost difference that you have to think about. And, um, I think more and more customers are choosing to, uh, to your point, focus on building their own applications and technology and leaning on the cloud providers, uh, in the form of native services. Am I drawing a line in the sand and saying, I'm gonna build all my new apps this way?

Or are people going back in and actually modernizing their legacy apps and with that mindset of making them a more cloud native friendly, shall we say? Yeah, we're, we're seeing a bit of both. I, I think that, um, we actually just had a really large customer that go, went through an 18 month process to retool their applications into more native services.

And the, the cost, um, kind of unit economics of that is substantially different better, um, because you can use exactly what you need. Um, you know, if you think about the, um, leveraging cloud, uh, compute and storage in a separate manner, uh, there's still always some waste. And so the beauty of the native services, you use exactly what you need.

Um, so we do see a fair bit of, you know, conversion or migration of existing applications. And, uh, to your point you said retooling applications, and that's exactly what has to be done. It's a lot of work to, uh, rebuild those applications.

I think when you, uh, talk about new applications, it is undoubtedly, uh, going to native service. Uh, I think it's just the, the way of the future, right? If, uh, we haven't even talked about serverless.

But, uh, I think that's the next step is, uh, you know, today we're kind of native service and people are dabbling in serverless and, uh, in the future I think serverless is, uh, gonna be even, you know, uh, even more popular, uh, especially with, uh, with ai. I feel like I need to know a lot more about the characteristics of my workload than I used to and to really get the optimal use case. Is that what you're seeing?

Yeah. And you know, it's not only, uh, to pick the, uh, the right type of service, but even to pick the right cloud. Um, you know, we're a multi-cloud partner, um, with all three, uh, A-W-S-G-C-P and, and, and Azure.

And this is what our customers face every day is, uh, not only help me pick the right technology, but let's start with where is the right place for this to sit between those three providers and, and why? And if you think about the kind of underlying cost model of each, it's substantially different. And, uh, you really have to understand, uh, I think the regional implications and growth and, uh, you know, uh, many different factors to pick the right cloud for your application.

We've also seen the rise of finops lately, and there's a lot more focus on the cost of the cloud than there used to be. Is this a set of metrics now that I'm kind of embedding in a dashboard and watching in real time? Or how has that kind of changed?

Yeah, so, um, you know, I think the world started with, uh, cost optimization, right? And that was kind of, uh, the first version of, uh, uh, rudimentary finops. Um, the way we think about finops is much like the finops Foundation, where, um, the real goal is connecting the people who use the cloud with the people who are building the budgets.

And that connection, um, makes the cloud, I think, more understandable and usable, uh, and predictable, uh, for a company of any size. And so, um, I, I do think that the, uh, you know, a part of finops is a set of metrics that tell you what you're, you're getting to. Um, what we're personally driving to is it's not only the cost of the cloud, um, you know, the unit economics of cloud, but it's also connecting that to revenue.

So if you think about, um, many of our customers are digital natives, so SaaS companies, ISVs, that are, um, you know, serving thousands of customers, what they really want to know is, how much revenue am I generating from this customer and what's my corresponding cost of cloud? And that's really what we're working to help them connect the those two dots. Is there also a bigger sustainability conversation going on that people seem to be trying to figure out how much energy they're kicking off and what that relates to carbon, but is, is that solely a European thing or a global thing?

No, I think that's a global thing. Um, you know, I think most, uh, uh, companies of any size today are global and, and it is a global concern. Um, you know, we had a customer choose, uh, native services exclusively for the, um, I, I think the fact that they could use exactly what they needed and there was no waste.

And so I do think that, um, you know, again, back to native services, there's some huge advantages there. And the, um, the ability to get the true, uh, utility nature of the cloud is, is important. And I think that's how we all become more, uh, more sustainable and green over time.

Mm-Hmm. What will be the ultimate impact on ai? Not just in terms of the workloads we're running in the cloud, but can we use AI to manage the cloud and what might that look like?

That's a good question. Um, we're actually, uh, you know, uh, at do it, we are, uh, launching a tool soon that is, uh, uh, AI based to help customers with just this. And so we have, uh, hundreds of thousands of, uh, tickets not only break fix, but you know, consulting, um, inquiries as well that we now have data on.

And, uh, getting that into a model to help, uh, not only ourselves, but customers, uh, think about how they manage their cloud and, uh, get access to information quickly is something that we're, we're working on doing. But I think undoubtedly AI will have an impact on, um, you know, not only best practices in cloud, but um, you know, how you respond to incidents and, um, you know, I mean, ultimately, uh, probably things we can't even imagine. What is the relationship between companies like yours and IT organizations these days?

'cause for such a long time it was borderline adversarial sometimes. So is that getting better? And if so, why?

Yeah, I think, um, I would, I would categorize ourselves a bit differently than a, a cloud service provider. Um, you know, our customers think about us as a, um, kind of a neutral third party, right? Um, and the reality is, uh, we're here for our customer's best interest, and, uh, sometimes that means choosing one cloud provider, and other times it means choosing another.

And so, um, you know, the fact that we have this, uh, neutral position and, um, you know, we're centered around what's best for, uh, for the customer, uh, I, I think that it builds a high level of trust, um, especially with senior executives at our customers, thinking about, um, how do they control their costs and, uh, what are the right decisions to make in the cloud? And so I do think that, um, you know, the, there's kind of a inherent distrust, I suppose, right, between a, a customer and a vendor. Um, our goal is to, uh, abstract those things, uh, to make it, uh, very transparent in terms of, uh, you know, the decisions that you make.

And, uh, ultimately we're all about choice. And, um, you know, making sure that our customers, uh, understand the trade-offs, because I think with any cloud decision, there's, uh, there's never a right answer. There's just a set of trade-offs, and you have to, um, I think do your best to, to choose the pros and cons that fits your business.

How much of that is being driven by the general lack of skills in the cloud, because frankly, the cloud's getting more complicated. There are more moving parts, and we didn't have enough skills to begin with. It doesn't look like we're gonna get enough skills anytime soon.

So has that kind of just changed the relationship entirely? Because internally I'm not gonna be able to do this myself, it seems like. Yeah, I think that's true.

Um, you know, I, I don't know the stat on how many new services came out between the three cloud service providers last year, but you know, I know 10 or 15 years ago, we started with simple compute network storage, and now we have hundreds and thousands of services to learn and manage and connect, uh, and, you know, leverage to build applications. And so there's no doubt the cloud becomes more complex every single day. And, um, you know, I think to your point, it won't get, uh, easier anytime soon.

And, um, you know, customers do struggle with, uh, with expertise and keeping up with the cloud. And, um, that's really our job is to help customers understand, uh, what their options are, uh, what the trade-offs are, and how to best leverage all these new technologies. Speaking of that complexity, we didn't touch on cloud security, but every time you look at any survey, the number one issue that shows up related to the cloud is security.

But I can't help but wonder, is that a technology issue or is that more of a process issue at this point? 'cause we're trying to do the, you know, dual responsibility model with mixed success. Yeah, I, um, for me, I always go back to, um, I'm a really bad golfer, and so I think you can be a bad golfer with a great set of golf clubs or a bad golfer with, uh, a bad set of golf clubs.

And so I think that's the, um, a good analogy for, for cloud security, right? You have to have a good process for, for cloud security. And, um, I think the, the education there in terms of, um, you know, configuration best practices and, uh, you know, uh, well architected reviews with AWS and, uh, you know, other security protocols with, with other cloud providers are super important.

And, uh, when we onboard new customers, those are the things that we help them understand and, uh, do for them. So I think that's one thing. And then, you know, the second is we're getting more and more, uh, native services for security, which I think is, is, is really helpful for customers.

Uh, it makes it easy to use, uh, you know, less configuration and, uh, compatibility issues. And so, uh, I think we are making progress, but, uh, it's both is the answer. What's that one thing you see customers doing even today that just makes you shake your head a little bit and go, folks, we're better than this?

Yeah, I, I think, um, I think there's, on the, the commercial side, I think we've lived in a world for the past 10 years of, uh, you know, relatively, uh, uh, cheap money and, uh, really not, uh, thinking about I think more of the upside rather than the risk. And so, uh, what I see that drives me, uh, crazy and, uh, makes me wanna, uh, you know, uh, really jump in and help is, uh, customers thinking that, uh, getting the biggest discount percent means they're gonna spend the least in cloud. And every time I talk to a customer, um, when we're thinking about, uh, you know, what they want to achieve, I really want to get to what are the unit economics that you're trying to achieve, uh, for your business, and how do we get there?

And, you know, oftentimes that isn't the, uh, you know, biggest commit you can do with the biggest discount. Uh, sometimes it's being a lot more conservative and, uh, leveraging technology you wouldn't have thought about, um, and ensuring that you, uh, you know, you aren't stretching, uh, to hit a, a big commit because, you know, oftentimes, uh, a big discount doesn't mean the best you could unit economics, which I think, uh, is interesting for customers when they start to, to think about it. All right, folks, you heard it here back in the day, Oscar Wild used to say something to the effect that there's a difference between knowing the price of everything and understanding its value.

Scott, thanks for being on the show. Thanks A lot, Mike. Have a good day.

All right. Back to you guys in the studio.