Enhancing User Experience in B2B Applications with Globality’s Matt Malden

This is Textron tv. Hey guys, thanks to the throw. We're here with Matt Mullin, who is Chief Product Officer for Globality, and we're talking about user interfaces in the context of B2B software and well, there's still a lot of work to be done.

Hey Matt, welcome to the show. Alright, thanks for having me, Mike. Matt, what is the fundamental problem here?

Because people use consumer apps at home all the time, and by and large, the user experience is, you know, decent to great somewhere in there. But you know, it's, most people don't complain all that much. But then we go to work and we start using all this B2B software and we just kind of quietly look up at the ceiling and go, gosh, this thing is just hard and it's just poorly designed and it's not a lot of fun to use.

So is there something going on in the world? I mean, do good designers just not wanna work on B2B software? Or what can we do here to make this whole thing a better experience?

Well, I assure you there's an army of designers working on B2B software who are just as passionate as the B2C designers. But, um, you know, first of all, I completely agree with the premise B2C applications. Uh, the usability is unparalleled.

There, there's a different dynamic going on with B2B C applications, which is the users absolutely have choice, right? And they, they, they're choosing to use, whether it's an Uber or a DocuSign or what have you. And if the application isn't immediately usable, they'll go on to the next application.

With business applications, it's likely that an executive somewhere along the line opted to use a particular piece of software. And if you work at that company, it's mandated that you need to use that software. So there's less consumer choice in whether you wanna use a certain software package or not.

As a result, the effort and the investment and the bar of usability is, is much lower for those business applications. The second thing you notice is for the functionality of business applications versus B2C applications, they're infinitely more complex and with more complexity creates more usability challenges. But, you know, with that said, Mike, there's a trend in something called the consumerization of business software where, or B2B applications where users are getting more choice and the BART is getting raised.

And you're starting to see some of these business applications be more consumer-like in their user experience. Is there any awareness of a cost factor here that goes with this? 'cause I think at some point this usability issue translates into productivity and that translates into cost.

But do we have a handle on what this kind of lack of commitment to design at the moment, at least, um, is having on our B2B software? Remember, uh, there is a cost component, but it's not the one you would imagine because, uh, for these B2B applications, you're typically in a function where you're using the software every day. So instead of intuitiveness and you know, transparency, ease of use, um, you're replacing that with training and support and documentation, because I can learn how to use an unusable application if I do it again and again and again.

So, you know, there, there is a cost, but there, uh, absorbing it in a different way or experience it in a different way. However, you know, it's, it's important that these applications become more and more usable because the cost isn't the issue. The issue is the employee satisfaction.

The issue is do they like going to the work? Do they like using that application? Do they like their job?

Um, when I worked, I was used to be the chief product officer at a company called DocuSign. When people would use DocuSign, they would come back and some of the feedback we got was, I couldn't do my job without DocuSign, right? I couldn't do what I do every day without this application.

It's so intuitive, it's so easy to use, it saves me so much time. And that's kind of the next generation of enterprise software where it has to have those levels of usability. Are people kind of quietly voting with their feet to go work for companies that provide a, you know, a better application experience, all things being equal in terms of, uh, pay and benefits and all that other stuff.

But, you know, have you seen an issue where people are just going, I don't wanna work here. The software sucks? Uh, you mean on the, on the, the software they used to get their job done?

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that's absolutely a trend.

I think, um, you know, we're in a little unique position at Globality because when, when the way our application works is we have users who are, uh, sourcing purchases using our software, and those are our customers, and they're, they're paying to, you know, for the privilege of using our software. And we're, we're servicing them and doing everything we can to make be great partners and build them great software. But what's unique about Globality is the other side of the equation are service providers and vendors and people who are, uh, receiving these projects and, and understanding what the projects are about and submitting proposals and trying to win business.

And what's interesting about that market is the vendor side of the equation. They're not customers of ours. They're not paying us to use the software, and they are logging into our portal and either they understand it and they get it and it's intuitive and it's easy to use or it's not.

And so the bar for us, we have a really a B2B component, but when you take a look at the vendor side, it looks more like a B2C component where that level of usability and intuitiveness and transparency and predictability, it has to be innate to the application. Um, and so, you know, I guess yes, people are voting with their feet absolutely, but in no market, more so than the one we're playing in. How will AI change this whole user experience dynamic?

'cause a lot of folks are sitting here and there's a lot of talk about, well, in the future, uh, either I'm just gonna write in a prompt and the thing will just magically go do what it's supposed to do. Or heck, I just might talk to it for that matter. But, um, is the way we think about user is changing?

Well, you know, we'd like to say we know a little bit about ai. When Globality was founded nine years ago, it, it was an AI based company. And, and what's unique about it is AI is baked into the DNA of our architecture, um, and our user experience.

It wasn't something that happened two years ago when, uh, generative AI became the, the latest trend and we bolted it on, on the side. It's, it's kind of core to our experience. And remember, AI is not just generative.

Generative is super powerful and awesome, and you know, we, it's embedded into our application, but there's machine learning and other different ai different technologies. From my perspective, what I would tell you is AI is hard. Getting it right is hard and, and, and informative and factual and relevant.

Um, but I would tell you is the UX of AI is even harder. And what you're trying to do is provide something really, really powerful to the users, but it has to be really intuitive. It's gotta be really transparent.

It's gotta be really predictable because when the AI is doing things, it has to do it in a way where the user understands what the AI is doing, why they're doing it, and have agency to change or refine or edit what it's doing. And the reason I talk about this is there's a moment of trust when users are using applications where they're trying to do things and they're, they're assessing whether the application is doing what they wanted to do, right? Um, and so this magical world where the AI is doing everything, look, if we get to that point, there are no users, right?

But I think that is decades and decades away. You have to develop a user experience for AI where it's assistive, it's helping, it's, um, experience things. And we, we recently shipped a feature called Next Generation, uh, next Gen AI scoping, which helps you define what a project's about.

And one of the challenges we found in that project, Mike, was um, it could generate a series of interview questions for you that are really relevant for scoping whatever type of product or service that you're, you're, you're running a project around, and it can even answer the questions for you. But in doing that, how do you create an experience where it saves you time by answering questions, but also informs you what are the answers, the questions that it's answering for you to kind of get your consent and get your approval? And there are various different models you can use where you go question by questions, say, here's the answer, do you like it?

Do you not like it? Here's a suggestion, do you want to use it? But there's also a way to do it where it's answering certain questions, it's skipping the back and forth, but it's making it transparent and available in the interface.

So you can review 'em if you want. You could skip 'em if you want, you could jump around. And it's just one of the many UI challenges we had to address when we, uh, embedded AI into the platform of the user experience.

Yeah, I think once a week everybody has or experiences what I call the two great size and the first size that there's something they're trying to do in their application and the thing just doesn't support that. Or it has some sort of process that is just not well implemented, and then they sigh. And then the next si is they go, well, you know, maybe we should replace this thing.

And then they look at the, the cost of replacing this thing and the effort that goes with that, and the next size is even bigger. So how do I get to, you know, something where we seem to be trapped in our own software, or we, the cost of moving something or shifting is too high to where we can maybe have some choice here and maybe do something differently. Well, you know, it, what you say is true, you know, B2B applications, unlike B2C, if, you know, if, if I don't like Uber, I just download the Lyft app and I'm off away in like two seconds.

Uh, business applications are complex because of the training issue, but also because of the systems integration issue, you have to do, you know, security audits and validations. There are many reasons why, why it's difficult to, to replace business software, but I would say you have to address it on the front end. Not only do you have to choose applications that we're talking about, have high levels of intuitive and usability, and, uh, albeit they are rare, uh, but you have to do it.

Um, it's important to partner with a culture, a company, with a culture of user experience as a priority in the development cycle. And what we do at Globality, you know, before we, uh, before we write a single light of code, we, we do our product requirements documents, uh, which define the specifications for any particular feature. Um, and then we do a series of design reviews and prototypes, uh, where we talk about user empathy and we talk about mental models.

And what we're trying to do is not design a feature. We're trying to design a system of features that are all consistent and interoperate with each other. Um, and that's rare in enterprise software.

It's rare to kind of, uh, not just chase the next feature that gets the next deal, but build a system of features that all interconnect together. It's, and it's the, the, uh, the analogy I use, it's like compounding interest when you're investing in the bank, which is, you know, at the beginning you're making pennies and pennies, but if you maintain that philosophy for years, um, the interest is immeasurable. Is there some way for the end customers to assess that before they go and commit to something?

Or maybe they should just realize that that's what they're committing to, and they should make a greater effort to make that assessment. But I sometimes feel like, um, you know, they're into it for months before they kind of wake up and realize that there isn't this kind of commitment to the user experience. And so how do I think about that going in versus when it's too late?

Yeah, well, the nice thing with the, you know, in 2024 where we're at is information's readily available. And so, you know, when we sell our software, customers are asking for references and, you know, it's important to get references from, from end users and practitioners of the application who use it every day. Um, so I think that is one good metric.

The second thing is, um, check out their NPS scores. NPS, you know, has its pros and cons in this world, but it's a really a good, and it stands for net promoter score. It's a really good indicator not only of, you know, a, a user's relationship with your company and application, but I I, in my assessment, I believe it is overly weighted to user experience.

Um, and so one thing we do at Globality is, you know, we track every user. We get the NPS. Um, I read every verbatim, see every score.

Um, I'm proud to say our NPS is in the 60 plus range, which is unheard of for enterprise software. Um, and we're diligent about the feedback and then the improvement and, and, and the intuitiveness. Um, when we design software, one of the hardest parts for a product or design person is to take the other person's perspective, but we call it end user empathy.

How do I see things not from my eyes, but from somebody else's eyes? And if you've ever read the book Made the Stick, which is an excellent book, chip and Dan Heath talk about the curse of knowledge, where it's almost harder to design software knowing what you know, uh, because the end user doesn't know what you know. So how do you erase the curse of knowledge in your head and design it from that perspective?

And so, uh, that's how we do it. That sort of design methodology, it, it seems like it's working pretty, pretty well, pretty to exceptionally well. Um, but finding companies that have that culture and that commitment to user experience is, is I think, paramount.

All right, folks. I heard it here. We've been talking about user experience for decades, and it's still crucial.

And if you build the software, you're in charge of buying the software. One thing you don't want to have is everybody uses that software to kind of quietly and just everyday experiencing some level of frustration that they kinda eventually bring back to you. Hey, Matt, thanks for being on the show.

Oh, my pleasure, Mike. All right. Back to you guys.