Earnings Season: Lenovo, Cisco, Kyndryl, Plus What to Know About LLMs

Good morning everyone, and welcome to Infrastructure Matters again. We are episode 62 and I am here with Diane Hinchcliffe. And, uh, Keith Townsend is on the road.

He's been at Cube Con, so we're gonna have to wait till next week to hear everything about what he's been doing. Um, if you haven't caught him, he's been wearing that cowboy hat all the way From he is hat have been all over the, all over, uh, uh, country, uh, this week. So Tall down and hat.

So there we go. So, lots of earnings this week. Um, really strong things coming out.

Um, of course everybody knows how the market has done really well. Thank you very much for whatever politics that contributed to this, if they have. Um, so we've got that to cover.

We have got some, just a bit of, you know, ai, super computing stuff that's coming up because next week is big super computing, 24 in Atlanta. And then, um, uh, Diane has got some great CIO study results. So we are just, he's going kind of walk you through what we've got there as well.

So let's start out with some of the earnings because, um, Kyra just released theirs early this morning. They, early, early, early. It's kind of like Hong Kong time, I believe is what it is.

Or Chinatown time. Time, um, really incredible numbers. Um, they're up 24% in revenue.

Wow. I know. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a second.

Let me peel that thing back there. Um, pretty much double digit growth all the way through, whether or not it was the device group, which has got the PCs and the phones and everything else, or whether or not it's the ISG group, which has got the servers and the HVC and the storage. Um, the big number was ISG up 65%.

Now they had been kind of pressed down a bit, um, and then they've kind of taken off, um, storage and software is up 35%. Um, Neptune, which, um, is all the scream and yell that we're gonna hear. I think, I know we're gonna hear out of stupid computing because I'm seeing all the pre announcements for it.

Um, which is the, um, liquid cooling capability, which is super rage. In fact, I have a, I have a meeting with next week Yes. Computing.

He's kind of, Who would've thought I, I took it just because I'm curious about what's going on. It's not that I really cover it. Um, the only thing I'll mention is that, you know, while highly profitable in terms of the PC grouping and the services grouping, the, the ISG has still taken, um, a little hit on the op an operating loss, much less than it was before.

Um, but it's, they're still working on profitability there, which means, and to me saying, okay, so I'm not sure if a lot of their market take this time around was because of the pricing actions or whatever they're doing, but I know there's a lot of competition in there to get the footprint, et cetera that's in there. So very, um, congratulations to them. Um, still, um, I think, you know, we'll probably see next quarter as they go through the next quarter, they'll probably get to the profit on that group.

Um, but that's kind of what's going on there. And, um, you had, uh, Cisco, um, Yeah, Cisco released their earnings this week. Uh, and uh, it wasn't actually that bad.

Um, but the market wasn't thrilled, uh, overall and the stock is down this morning. Um, and you know, it, I've been following the Cisco story since the beginning way back in the day, and what a storied company. Um, and they kind of literally defined the, the, the, the tech world, uh, in the nineties and early two thousands.

Uh, and their, their, their networking, uh, sales fell actually, uh, in, in this quarter. It's their, it's their security products that are doing particularly well. And, and they, they released surged.

Uh, but one bright spot in networking was artificial intelligence. Of course, that's, uh, that's, you know, the, the, the topic to jour. Uh, and they, as they applied to networking, they're actually doing those sales did pretty well.

So they real able to prove that they have some, have a path forward. Um, you know, uh, as, uh, they've trying to kind of find out where are they gonna be, uh, in this, this new age of ai. Uh, and they, they don't have an AI product.

So, um, you know, forecast was, uh, just okay. Um, and so I think, uh, you know, it's kinda disappointing to me to see what, you know, I think they had tremendous potential and they just couldn't figure out how to remake themselves the last couple of tech generations. So, we'll, we'll see what happens with them.

I'm really surprised to hear that the networking is down, but that may be because there's more competition coming in, um, in the markets with everything. Oh, yeah. I've been trained network makers.

Uh, last year I did a tour of Europe, uh, and, you know, there's just much lower cost places that can provide extremely high equipment, uh, high quality equipment. Um, and a lot of these factories are incredibly robot, you know, they're, uh, most of 'em are entirely automated so that from the time they're putting the chips on the PCBs to the time they're packing these things in the boxes, a human has never touched that. It is amazing.

Literally just pallets come out the other side of the factory and, and, uh, in my, in my experience that Cisco has, uh, amortized and not upgraded their factories to extent that these guys have. So I just dunno how they're, how they're gonna compete. Wow.

Uh, change changes in how we manufacture, for sure. Yeah. So the other, um, big earnings that I took a look at was ndl.

Um, and that was the week before. Um, NDL is, uh, most of, you know, is the spin out of the outsourcing business from IBM that happened a couple years ago. It's been a big turnaround.

I mean, people scream and yell about whatever their earnings are because they've been losing, you know, they've been showing losses in money, but it's, it is a turnaround business. And what's happened over the last two years is they have really gone through in prioritized accounts, get getting rid of the low margin business that they had. Um, that, you know, probably for IBM made sense because in the low, you know, maybe low margin services, but you made made it up on the hardware kind of thing.

MI might've been why they took those deals, but, you know, they were delivering, I'm not sure if that, that's my speculation. Well, it used be to, to get the deal on the IBM side. Uh, they would've to provide the services to make that deal successful.

They made money on one side, but they might not make so much money on services. Now, Kindle doesn't have that option. They gotta, they they have to be a much higher quality business in general.

Yeah. So they've, um, this is definitely, they have moved in. They, you know, they grew the business, um, in terms of the revenue of their, their, uh, in terms of, uh, subscription or renewal con I should say.

The renewal contracts is way up. Um, so the customers are coming back to them. Um, they have created, uh, NDL Bridge, which is a AI ops tool that completely manages, that the customers use as well as NDL uses, that has had a significant impact on their labor costs, um, in terms of the staffing, about how many fingers and hands do you need on the system to offer it.

Oh, that's like a margin creation tool. Yeah. That's, that's amazing.

And I, I've been bullish on AIOps for years. Um, the, it has been way too manual for way too long, but it's could so much variability to educate, but AI seems able to tackle that. So that's a great story.

I'm glad to see that It, it's, and sounds like it's really fascinating as well as one of the things we heard back when the CrowdStrike happened, NDL didn't have the problems that the other people had. They were, and so this is part and parcel part of this NDL Bridge capability as well, that they have. So, you know, to me that they, they are well on their way to being a very formative player into this market and, and bringing out the services that are needed.

So, yeah. Oh, the other piece that really came up for them is they have grown their cloud business significantly. So their partnership with AWS and majeure, um, they didn't really talk about Google much, but the, the AWS and Azure pieces, um, they're really working with our clients to help them understand where things go as well as mainframe modernization.

And that might be using the cloud for doing probably mostly development kind of work, but that's the other place that they have really grown their business. Yeah, no, it's, it's, uh, it's great to see what they've done with that. And of course, IBM doing so well is, I mean, I, IBM's practically resurgent these days.

Uh, people could kind of discount on them for so long, uh, that, and they're really doing good. And a lot of that is gonna flow back over to NDL as well. So I think it's, it'll get a lift from that, you know, long term partnership, obviously.

So there were some other announcements we're going, as I said, we're going into supercomputing and my inbox is just massively filled up with all kinds of things there at Supercomputing. It's, it's sold out for a lot of reasons. Supercomputing, uh, used to be, you know, what I would call the little propeller head kind of folks that were there.

It was all PhD people, a lot of students, um, uh, down there. It was the reign of all the research, li research, um, institutions as well as the labs. And now it is probably gonna be, you know, ground zero for ai, I guess is kind of what we're gonna See.

I would absolutely concur. Yeah. I used to, I used to number crunching and, uh, high, we had HPC high performance computing for all these statistical and analytical tasks.

Uh, and now, uh, they're, they're finding in intense relevance in the AI space. It's fascinating with, yeah. And one of the big themes coming out of there, um, coming through, as I can see with the announcements happening, is all about, um, liquid cooling.

And it is not my core coverage area, but there is a rash of announcements going on on liquid cooling. Um, and, uh, very, you know, we're, and that goes back to, you know, when, when it was talking about Lenovo, Neptune is up 38%, you know, They, there, it power density is everything as mm-Hmm. As it's turning out because the GPUs are getting bigger, uh, faster than their performance is improving.

Uh, so they're, they're finding it easier just 'cause it's, you know, already massively parallel chips. They're just building bigger and bigger GPUs and the power density is causing a real cooling problem. So liquid cooling has come, you know, come back from kind of languishing to the hottest technology to build a modern data center.

Uh, and it's all about ai, GPUs, and, uh, you know, getting rid of all that heat, which is build a real problem, Which I think is really necessary. Very, very much so necessary. We're gonna see, you know, new types of, uh, data centers that are set up in those environments.

So the other areas, um, and I'm gonna cover the rest of the announcements next week because there's so many coming out, we'll kind of lay them out. Um, we had a few other announcements that were not, um, super computing based. Uh, NetApp came out and refreshed almost all of their product line, um, their entire, um, a, a f, um, all fas, um, Aeries, as well as their C-series.

So the high performance ones in the C-series is their capacity one at the QLC. Um, they've done some refresh work with storage grid and, um, and bringing out clearly QLC over there. And then the, the little known guy called the E-Series that they have that nobody ever talks about.

But we've, we've kept uncovering it because we've known that it's been very powerful in the HBC market. So it's the old LSI boxes that they bought many years ago. Um, and that, you know, for, for a while there, we thought they were gonna jettison that thing to the other side.

But now that AI is back and you have to talk AI and HPC, um, you've got your north south kind of capabilities, which is gonna be the eer, east Wests is going to be, um, there are other products to, you know, in terms of how they're gonna address the market and the needs that are there. So that's those guys. Um, and then we had, uh, pure had a little bit of an announcement that was this low end entry level box, which it seems like a lot of people are driving to that low end entry level box to kind of address the HDD market that needs to migrate, that is needing to migrate off of HBS over to solid state, we think.

So this kind of runs that down, but you had some really big announcements on Mm-Hmm. On AI stuff, on, on lot, uh, language models, right? Uh, that's right.

Uh, so, um, Google recently re uh, released, uh, just released their, a new language model, uh, with, with the exciting, uh, tag of, um, 1114, which I guess they're putting a date on it, on the time they released your model. But for the very first time, Google AI has a model at the very top of the AI leaderboard. So, so if you look at a marina, which is really kind of become the, the, the definitive standard for, uh, how different large language models rank, um, Google has that at the top.

They, they, uh, chat. GPT has been dethroned. Claude's been up there a few times.

Uh, but, uh, uh, GPT-4 or some flavored g PT four has been at the very top, uh, for almost the entire time the El Marina has been out. Uh, Google finally has, uh, can say that they have the most superior, highest performant ai, uh, LOM. Uh, and that's, that's a big deal.

Google really needs this. I guess Google, frankly, has really struggled to make inroads in the cloud community. Microsoft is, is, uh, almost ascendant.

Uh, they're growing fashion. Amazon, uh, I have, uh, projections that I've done that within four years, it's actually possible Microsoft will eclipse Amazon. Google has really, has, has been this kind of very consistent number three, uh, uh, and they just haven't been, had a standout service and have the best AI service, a really big deal for them.

Uh, and if they can stay up there, um, you know, this is gonna be really good for across the board for, for Google Cloud, uh, and they really need that shot in the arms. So, uh, it's, it's good to see, 'cause we need competition. Uh, as we saw with CrowdStrike having an IT monoculture, it's not a good thing where everyone's using exactly the same thing and everyone ends up with the same problems.

Uh, we need a healthy mix. Uh, we need competition. And this really, uh, shows that Google's in the AI game in a big way.

And so I was really glad to see that one. So maybe for our listeners, you could talk about what El Marina, marina is all about, and we'll post the, um, link in the notes someplace so you guys can go to the leaderboard on site. But tell, talk about what are they measuring, how are they measuring, and what's, what's, how do people that are your normal everyday CIO use that data?

Well, yeah, absolutely. So, um, it's very hard to compare apple's, uh, to apples in the AI world. Uh, or it was for, at least for a long time.

And then the industry developed these, these large suites of very sophisticated, uh, test panels. So they might have, uh, you know, uh, uh, 10 or 20,000 very sophisticated, uh, language reasoning, uh, word problems. And, uh, and they were, they really stress test a language model.

So, uh, they'll have, uh, a, a reasoning, uh, test suite, a math test suite, um, and, and a variety of other test suites that have all kind of been standard. Anyone can download these, anyone can see what the test data is. You can test your own OMS or your own internal models against these benchmarks.

They're now very easy to run. ai, uh, and you can see, uh, uh, in real time all the latest models and how they perform against each other using a state S suite. You can see how well they reason how well they do math or what, or whatever.

It's, and for like, math is really important because, uh, large language models are, are notoriously bad at kind of very deterministic outputs. They're more, uh, uh, they're, they do much better at probabilistic type work. Uh, and you, but you can see this.

And so the what, but models are, are, are optimizing for these different, different test suites so that they can actually do them better and better. And so element arena shows how these large language models, uh, shape up who's at the top. Uh, so if you, if you are, uh, and have a cutting edge use case, uh, or you just want to futureproof your organization, you can see who is ascended, who's staying up there at the top and consistently putting out the highest quality most performant AI models.

Uh, and El Marina updates the, the results as soon as they complete a, a benchmark close to new results on the leaderboard. And you can see our, how everyone's doing. And so I, I do encourage you, it's a great way to stay abreast of, uh, you know, uh, uh, how the models are doing.

And you can see open source models closing in on the commercial models. Normally, it's, uh, commercial models are at the top, and then the open source ones are at the bottom, but the open source models are climbing up. Um, and, uh, so it's, it's a really good way to, to stay abreast very quickly if you're an IT leader, uh, on what's going on in the AI world.

Are you really expecting the, um, enterprises to switch different LLMs are going to be using on a regular basis? I mean, wouldn't they, as a normal practice kind of go with one and stick with one for a period of time? Well, it's been hard to say.

I mean, that's a great question, Kimberly. Um, the, the belief was that, uh, there was gonna be, uh, regular breakthroughs in LLMs and that you might wanna switch, uh, or that LLMs might, uh, certain LMS might be much better in a different task. Uh, and that's certainly, uh, proven, uh, the, that, you know, out in terms of cost effectiveness.

The cost effectiveness is where models are really varying now, like IBM has mm-hmm, uh, a a a new model, um, um, granted, sorry, say it again. Granite. Yeah, granite, uh, which is, uh, very highly performant.

It's not at the top of the leaderboards, but it's 10 times cheaper to run. That's a really big deal, uh, for, uh, for the CIO who, who has to deliver it on a, on a, on a very well-defined budget, uh, that, that they, their, their CFO really encourages 'em to stick to. And, uh, we're, but we're seeing ais causing overspend all over the place.

Uh, budgets are breaking everywhere, uh, because it's very expensive to run. So, uh, yeah, it is important. I think most, uh, companies will end up with, uh, several dozen to several hundred different models that are optimized for either very specific tasks.

Like there's now, uh, large language models, uh, or sorry, medium length size models for it, uh, service management. They really optimized for that task and they've been trained, uh, in that world. And, uh, and an and IT department might want that because it, it could be up to a hundred times cheaper to, uh, solve an i, uh, a problem using, uh, a, a medium sized, uh, LOM optimized for it use cases.

So yeah, I, it, there will be, I think what we call model gardens or model hubs in most enterprises, and we see that forming now. Oh, okay. So that's the, the next generation of what we're gonna be seeing on, in, on the, in the enterprise and, and also why your toolkit, the flexibility of the toolkit that you're deploying now in terms of the enterprise needs to, it needs to be there, um, in terms of being able to swap out whatever and not to get the latest stuff.

Well, and that's where Google and, and, and, um, Amazon have made big bets, uh, and that, uh, they, they say you can run any model in their environments. Uh, they give you some default models. They have, they that are very good, uh, but, um, they, they specifically create environments where you have these, you can have these large well-managed model gardens that have all the right guardrails on them and run them consistently.

So yeah, I think that's, that's the future. Yeah. So we're gonna continue on.

Um, so for those of you who dunno, Diane is our, our CIO leader for the company. Um, he's got a very strong following in the market and we'd been working on, um, if RUM has been working on publishing, um, decision maker, um, trending information survey work in multiple different areas. You know, we've come out with revving over right now AI chips, um, we've got cybersecurity, we have app development out there, uh, data as well as market sizing data.

And in particular, what Dion has been working on is C-I-O-C-I-O study doesn't have an official title yet, but right now, CIO study is good enough. Um, and so very, very exciting. Um, so not only, you know, is it the survey work, but it's also you're spending time with these guys, um, on a, on a daily basis talking to them.

So getting that voice and that power of what's going on on their mind. Um, so maybe you can give a few highlights about what's going on. It's gonna be out at the end of the month, so you're looking at sometime around on November 30th, um, as we're going into, after Thanksgiving.

Yep, exactly. Thanksgiving. So maybe you can give some highlights about what's coming out with this data and what's it looking like.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, we do have a working title. It's called CIO Insights, and you'll be able to get this data, uh, and drill down and slice it and dice it inside the future of intelligence platform.

Um, uh, if you have a subscription, uh, and, uh, as we update the survey, you'll be able to see live, you know, most people only get, uh, uh, insight into what the, the, the largest IT buyers in the world are doing every year. Uh, but we're gonna provide a snapshot every quarter. And, uh, it's, uh, it's interesting to see, um, you know, there, there's some obvious results, um, uh, in the, in the, in the study, um, that, um, uh, and we see that, uh, 90% of CIOs are gonna focus on leveraging AI for strategic transformation, uh, are, are, are automation in their business.

And that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. But I can confirm that signal AI is the, uh, was the clearest signal in in the survey, um, but also legacy. What are we gonna do about, uh, the 30 to 40 years of it we've accumulated, so 80% report that they're really focusing on prioritizing, migrating legacy apps to the cloud specifically.

Uh, that's the largest, uh, signal I've seen on that, uh, that trend. It's always been, uh, you know, a steady grind. We gotta, we gotta move to the cloud and we gotta do something about all our legacy.

But there was a, a big uptick, uh, I think it's app application portfolios, age out, uh, and a lot of the old hardware and a lot of the old systems that, um, they have, they, they, they're ha they're having to retire those. And now is the time, uh, if you're gonna make the move to go to the cloud. Uh, we're seeing a lot of migration of off SAP on-prem, for example, um, to SAP cloud.

Um, and, uh, and in my CIO conversations, it's also been one of the hottest topic. Everyone's doing an ERP migration right now to the cloud is what is what it feels like out there. Uh, talent issues remain one of the, the, the biggest challenges that was almost as big as the, the leveraging ai, uh, story.

And that they're just can't get the right talent to deliver on what they need to do in terms of new development in it, which is mostly around things like AI and analytics and cloud migration. Uh, getting the superstars is hard because the superstars are really moving to the tech companies and the big service providers. If you wanna wanna work on a bunch of really fun projects all the time that are a bunch of different fields and get the top of your game, you often will go to a service provider.

'cause you'll be working on a bunch of really exciting projects that are constant flow instead of building something and then going into maintenance mode for 10 years. So that's, that's a real challenge. Um, and I think probably one of the most important signals is very loud, uh, signal on what are we going to, what cis are, are gonna do, where are they gonna put their cloud workloads?

Now we've seen this rising up the last two years and saying, well, is public cloud always the answer for every workload that we, a new workload that we create? And we started seeing last year, the answer was no, it's not. Uh, there are for certain always on or, or, you know, very high performance workloads like training AI models.

It may not, might not make sense to, to pay that whole, um, uh, uh, you know, CapEx bill, marketing, cost of sales, everything that to a cloud provider just to run your workload. They might make sense. Uh, if you're, uh, to the, to to, you know, colo or build a specialized data center, a small data center for very high performance workloads that they create would create a very large bill from your hyperscaler.

And so 71% of CIOs are reevaluating across the board where they're gonna put their workloads in the feature. They're not, they're all the signal, the signal is not moving a lot of 'em now, but they're all, they're in, in the middle of reevaluation. So expect big changes in the industry over the next couple years around that.

So, Kay, how do you resolve that last statement that you said, 71% are reevaluating, where to place the workloads and the other piece of data, which you said 60%, they're trying to move their legacy workloads to the cloud. And I mean, the legacy workloads have got just as much data, good data that they're concerned about letting out of their four walls because of privacy and ip, et cetera. So those seem to be contradictory statements, but That's a very good insight.

Exactly. And, and what you have to realize is that when people say cloud, now they don't, that they don't mean public cloud, they mean a cloud model. So it could be private cloud.

So, you know, there's a whole raft now of providers that are saying, well, we we're give you a cloud and we'll give you a pay as you go cloud. And that could be in our data center, it could be in a colo data center, it could be in a hyperscaler, or it could be your data center, and it's all one pane of glass, one stack, one everything. Uh, and so, um, that's why companies like HPE are doing, uh, doing so well and that they're saying, you need to have that choice.

You need to have the flexibility to run the workloads wherever, you know, out on the edge in your, uh, data center in the hyperscalers, wherever it is, you need to have one stack and you have one management console, uh, one pan of glass, uh, to manage it all. So when we say cloud, we mean the whole spectrum, public and private and edge. So, so I think that's, that's when they say to moving into the cloud, that's what they mean is that whole spectrum.

Well, that actually even may pay, um, pan out well for a NDL kind of discussion, right? You know, you know, I'm giving you, you know, here it is, here's the tools, et cetera. Um, and, you know, depending upon what you're looking for.

So yeah, that's, uh, looking forward to see the data and, and coming it out and seeing where it's going. That's very, very exciting stuff. So I think we are at the, you know, actually I've got one more item and I forgot to mention this.

Yeah, I was at this week I was at the Veeam Analyst Conference, and Veeam, if is a data protection company, used to be this cute guy, cute folks that were always taking care of all the VMware environment. Well, they're no longer the little cute little guys. They, they're big, they're big firm.

7 billion this next year, which is, you know, they are, which is pretty significant. Um, and so they bring, you know, when they do an analyst set, they bring us all in and wanna tell us how wonderful and great they're doing and where they're going, et cetera. And so they had the entire executive team there, um, the COOC, F-O-C-E-O-C-R-O, et cetera, all the C So I did get, yeah, I did get time.

Yeah, actually we did get time to talk to the, I sat down with the, um, CFO and you, he was talking about where they're going and how they're going, how they're gonna reach it, but the big thing that they're betting on, so they, they built their bit company on VMware and explosion of VMware. So, and they've got, then they've grown out and built out to more of the enterprise. And I won't say that they can completely take over TSM or IBM protect or net net backup, but they're doing a darn good job in some areas of taking a big chunk of that, you know, modernizing the data protection capability work.

The, the other big thing that they did, and this is where their announcement was this week, is working with Azure and because people, that is the first use case that we've seen a lot of the enterprise go to is using the cloud to do a, a vault or do whatever they're gonna do up in, up in the cloud is doing the data protection. Um, because it, it's just, it's just a great place to play, you know, place it, get rid of the tape, they've got rid of the tape or whatever they're doing. But this, one of the problems with doing that is if, when you start restoring, you have egress fees, you have API fees.

So what you think is the cost of storage ends up tripling or quadrupling in terms of costs with all the other charges that come along with it. I research egress fees are one of the, the number one reasons that people move to a cloud, private cloud for that exact reason. If you have, uh, if you have very, what we call chatty workloads, So they have negotiated with Azure, they now have a service offering that you're just gonna pay, you just pay them.

And, and they, they're covering the, the storage cost or whatever cost, here's the cost. And even more importantly, since Microsoft came out and said, you have to protect your office 365 capability, that's not our responsibility, that's yours and take care of it. They have doubled down on that market and I think really smartly what they have done, instead of saying, okay, I'm gonna charge you for terabyte or whatever, I'm gonna charge you by user, just so I have, you know, I have a user and I have data protection.

I know my costs are, here's my costs. It doesn't make a difference. It's just kind of like that, you know, click on, add on to it.

And so it's a really strong joint relationship with them. Um, and that shouldn't take anybody by surprise, because if you look at the C levels at the, they're all former, you know, corporate vice presidents of Microsoft. So, um, anyway, so it was a great conference.

They, um, we'll have a note coming out with it. We're not sure which of the stuff we can talk about yet, because they said everything was NDA, so we'll publish some, um, commentary on it, but they've got some big, big growth plans, um, and I think that they've got the group there to, to make it happen. So.

Well, that is 30 minutes. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. It's amazing how, how fast this time goes, guys, thank you very much.

Next week we will have all three of us back. Lots to talk about. We'll, we'll break down Q Con Supercomputing and Diane, where are you going this week?

Are you home this week? Are you traveling? Uh, not this week, but next week.

Uh, we have, uh, Microsoft Ignite in Chicago. That's a very big event, and I'll be, were they, Is that a big event? Yeah, yeah, I think some people have heard of them.

Uh, but I'll be broadcasting the CIO, uh, pulse report live from the, the show floor, so it'll, it'll be fun. Great. Alright guys, thank you very much and have a great week.