The Ins and Outs of Applying to GSoC – The CD Pipeline EP13

Hi everyone. I'm Alan Shimel from Textron, and you are watching CD Pipeline. DD Pipeline is a joint, uh, venture partnership of a video show that we run about once a month here on techron tv, and it's in partnership with Techstrong as well as our good friends at the CDF, the Continuous Delivery Foundation part of the Linux Foundation.

Um, we try to cover relevant topic in, in, uh, the world of CD of continuous delivery. And, and speaking of relevant, we have a very relevant talk topic today. We're gonna talk about the ins and outs of applying to Google's summer of code, which has become quite a, a magnet over the years for companies to get involved in and get some exposure.

And, uh, we we're going to get into this in, in a little bit, but before we do, I've got a great panel here to introduce you to, who is gonna talk to us about, uh, the ins and outs and expert tips, or as good as we can about Google summary of, of code. Let me first introduce you to Alyssa Tong, who reminded me that the last time we were in person, we were in Marrakech. And that was, that was a great trip.

I'll, I'll always remember, Alyssa, it's great to see you. Why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself. Hi, Alan.

Thanks for the intro. Hi everybody. Um, so my name is Alyssa Tong.

I am the events officer for the Jenkins project. I'm also the advocacy and outreach chair for the project. Um, I've been an org admin for Google Summer of Code within Jenkins for the past.

Uh, this will be my third year. Um, I've been with the project since 2011, project, meaning the Jenkins Project. And, um, like I mentioned, it'll be my third year as a GSO org admin.

Um, we care deeply within the project itself, the Jenkins project. We care deeply about the open source and bringing new contributors to the project, and that is why for the past eight years we've been a mentoring org, um, within Google Summer of code. So that's about it for me, Alan.

Fantastic. Thank you, Alyssa. Next up, I'd like to introduce you to Bennett.

Purcell Bennett, welcome. Little bit about you. Thanks for the, uh, welcome Bennett Purcell Ecosystem strategist for the open SSF.

I've been with the open SSF for just under a year now. Um, do a lot of the stuff in evaluating how we do our engagements around. Uh, in addition, was asked to look into how we can, uh, increase, uh, our mentorship and, uh, specifically looking at Google Somewhere code.

Uh, uh, we attempted it to, uh, apply last year, but found out kind of late in the process. And, uh, we're not fully prepared. Uh, we're very interested in figuring out how people do properly prepare, uh, get, uh, submissions in, uh, engage with the community and make sure that they have all of the things lined up, uh, for execution of this.

Thank you, Bennett. Next up, I want to introduce you to Benjamin Sternthal. I hope I got that right, Ben, I hope I got it right.

But why don't we tell people a little bit about you. You got it right, Alan. Thank you.

Uh, my name is Benjamin Sternthal. I'm a director of program management at the Linux Foundation. Been here for about a year and, uh, I support three projects here.

I, uh, primarily work on the open JS Foundation. I also work on confidential computing consortium. And then the last one I work on is Chips Alliance.

And Chips Alliance is focused around, uh, open source hardware, which is pretty unique and, and different from the other projects I work on, which is all about, uh, open source software. And, uh, chips Alliance is the, uh, project that we, um, work with with, uh, Google Summer of code on. Fantastic welcome.

And then finally, I mentioned to her earlier, she's my co-host for CD Pipeline, and she's a kind of a open source, everything, you know, she's got her hand in a bunch of stuff, but she's also full-time now. She got a, a real job in addition to helping all of these people, and that's a good thing. I'm sure it's my friend Lori Lorusso.

Hey, Lori, tell people a little bit more. Hey, Alan. Yes.

Um, in addition to some of the, uh, awesome volunteerism I do with the CDF and CNCF and open SSF, so it's got a good little crew right here. Um, I am head of community at Perona, which is amazing because this is the first time I've worked for an open source company. So, uh, all of this is just kind of full circle and, um, this is an awesome topic.

When Alyssa first started talking about Google Summer of Code, uh, to me a few years ago, my mind was blown at the amount of work that is involved in, um, in even just the submission process and how it is a year long process. So I think this is, is going to really help, um, sort of lift the veil on like what it takes to become a Google Summer of code, um, accepted project, and also like really hear about the value of taking the time to, to build all the resources you need so you can submit and then hopefully, um, be successful. Absolutely.

So, so guys, look, we're out here. We're, we live in the bubble, right? But the fact is there's a lot of people out here who don't live in the bubble and they may not be familiar with Google's summer of code and what it's all about.

Um, you know, I talked about it being hard to get in as a mentor organization. Well, back in 2023, there were over 43,000 applicants from 160 countries for Google Summer of code. Think about it.

I mean, that, that's a crazy amount. Um, let's, let's start real baseline. Let's talk about what is the Google Summer of code?

Now let's talk about what it means to be a mentor organization for the Google Summer of Code. And then we could talk about kind of tips and tricks in here. Who wants to lay that baseline for me?

What is Google Summer of Code exactly. And, uh, was just about to type into chat. GPT, what is Google Summer of code?

Um, just kidding. Yeah, so, um, Google Summer of Code is a, essentially like a, a really large mentorship program where, um, Google provides funding for a whole variety of projects, right? Um, and, uh, it's a pretty tightly run a program like Google is.

And, and we should just, like, right off the bat, we should thank the folks at Google who, who work on this. Like, they do an amazing job. And I don't think there are that many of them working on this program and supporting, supporting all of us.

So it, it's really pretty incredible what they pull off. Um, but yeah, you know, essentially, and, and folks should chime in here and keep me honest. Um, organizations gather together, proposals for work, uh, that needs to get done, uh, usually involving students.

Um, Google goes through a betting process. I'm not entirely sure what the magic is behind that. Um, and when things get approved, there's a stipend, um, for folks who are doing the work.

And ideally, um, the work gets done and hopefully it's open source and, uh, everyone benefits. So how close was I for everyone? Does that meher everyone's understanding too?

I thought It was pretty good. I thought it was pretty good. So, so mentor organizations, how many of them are there in any summer of code program?

Anybody know? You might wanna ask Gemini, not chat. GPT by the way, Ben just saying it is Google.

Um, I have, I don't, I'm just trying to be fair. Okay. Fair and balance.

That's us. Uh, well that's someone else supposedly, but anyway, um, anybody have a guess as to how many mentor organizations there are? I'll take a guess.

Um, I think it's over at least 200 mentoring orgs, uh, within a year. But, um, well, I'm, I'm looking down my at the notes here, but since, so the program has been around for 20 years. This is their 20th year.

Wow. So since 2005, um, the program has connected 19,000 plus new open source contributors from 112 countries. Um, so that's a lot of people.

And they've produced over 43 million lines of code for eight plus open source organizations. Hmm. One of the things I wanna say that I think is so fabulous about this program is when you think of open source, as you think of accessibility, and to have, uh, contributors from that many countries just goes to show you like how open, open source is, it's not that everyone is, you know, in, you know, Europe or everyone is in North America.

It is a truly global process. And I think that really helps aid in the value and the, the, the brain power that's coming out of these programs. And, you know, again, hats off to Google for running this for 20 years.

I think anyone that even thinks about entering a hackathon knows how much work that goes into a hackathon. And so to have, uh, a complete package deal that has a full process that for you to go through. I mean, I can't wait for Alyssa Tong kind of explain a little bit more about like Jenkins playbook for Google Summer of code.

I feel like it's that thick, um, because it's so streamlined and when we think about open source, it's about getting more contributors. But to be able to, um, apply for Google Summer of code, you really need to have your ducks in a row. You really need to have a strong, solid project, and you really need to have the contributors and the maintainers already within your project that are gonna do the extra work, we'll call it extra work to bring these mentees in and and really mentor them through the whole summer.

Alyssa, it sounds like it was thrown to you, so I think, uh, Lori nailed it. All right. So, um, we do our planning very far in advance.

So the application begins around, um, February timeframe. So we start talking about it in October. So once the program ends, let's say, so this program will end this year in September.

We take a little, a couple weeks of break and then we start planning. Um, but bear in mind, the project has applied for Google sum of code 10 years. The past 10 years we applied two years, we were rejected.

Okay. So, and then the eight years, uh, we, we, we got accepted. Um, but, so that means prior to my involvement, there was a lot of people involved in this program.

So there's been a lot of work put in place. So if you go onto our website, and what happens is when you make your, when you apply into the program as a mentoring org, you have to provide a bunch of links in how you have done your due diligence in preparing for this program. They want you to be successful.

io, we have a subcategory, a sub project that's labeled Google summary of code. And so underneath there, there's just a wealth of information, too much information in my opinion. But, you know, over communicating is much better than not enough, right?

So we have pages, um, of, of, of Google Summer, of code content, um, for mentors, for org admins, for new contributors, what to expect, how much time to expect the complexity of the project. We have spelled it all out. How are we communicating?

How are, and then the other thing is we do a lot of, um, open transparent communications. So we've got our getter channel, we've got our YouTube channels almost every week we have something on Google Summer of code. So like right now it's our office hours every Thursday, 6:00 AM my time.

Yes, that's 6:00 AM my time. I'm hosting Google summer of code office hours. And we do that from the very beginning to the very end of the program.

Um, we post our notes, we post our videos onto our YouTube, uh, pages. So there's a ton of information, and I think that's what Google likes to see. How prepared are you, how are you setting up for success?

Um, and so I think that has helped us a lot. But like I said, there's a lot of work involved as men. Laurie mentioned just, you know, preparations, documentation, you gotta lay it all out there.

So Ben, this being your first time, is this scaring you or is this like, or do you feel like you are set, set it up for success? So this is kind of interesting. Like I was, I was, um, listening to Alyssa speak and I was like, wow, that's a lot more than we're doing.

Um, no, but I think so, so the, the project that I work on, this is their second year doing Google Sun Code, but this is my first year helping them with it. And so, um, I got kind of thrown in, uh, like in January and they're like, Hey, we want to do GSO again, can you help? Like, sure, right?

And then I started poking around and I was like, what do I do? Um, and like Google has a lot of information, but it's a lot of information and it's very detailed, but it, it's, it's not written in a way of like, well here's step one, here's step two. It's almost like, here's like the, the, you know, well this is agreeing, right?

Um, so what kind of saved me is that I had, it's funny 'cause like we refer to ourselves as mentors. I had a mentor. Um, so I had someone who had run the program previously that could coach me through it and was like, here are the things to pay attention to.

You know, like dates are very important, obviously, like, don't miss your dates, all those things. Um, so yeah, there was a very steep learning curve in just being like, okay, like what does Google expect? What are the dates that I need to get things in by?

And just like, what are the tasks that I need to do? Um, once, once that all got sorted, um, Google was very good at like, sending you communications about what things you need to do and like prodding you to do things. So, you know, if, if Alyssa is like running this program at like a 10, I'm probably running this program at like, a odd part of that is because, um, just of my time that's allocated to chips lines is actually pretty small because of the other products that I run.

So really what I'm doing is, you know, keeping the car moving forward, keeping keeping it gassed. So I'm in communication with the editors on the project. I reach out occasionally, um, to the contributors, um, who are doing work on the project to make things, make sure everything's flowing smoothly.

But, um, other than that, you know, so I check in probably about once a week, once every two weeks, um, and keep things on track. But yeah, that's pretty much, pretty much it for our, for our project. And it's probably a little smaller in scope, I think.

So the project that you're running, So can I ask how many org admins, uh, is working on this with you? One, just me. Oh.

Oh, that's tough. We have, um, including myself is four. Yeah.

We've learned, we've learned that we need multiple org admins and we also learn that a project idea, um, need multiple mentors. Yeah. So you have a league mentor and co-mentors.

So just in case, um, you know, somebody's out sick, um, on vacation, things happens, right? So we need to be able to show Google that we can con you know, keep the train moving, um, if one person is down. Yeah, I was just looking at like my, my, my project tracking sheet and it like about half of our, we've only got, um, six, uh, projects of those six two have multiple mentors.

So maybe a little lesson for us for next year is make sure that all of our projects have multiple mentors. Yeah. Yeah.

And I would say recruiting mentor is the hardest part of, of, of this program every single year. I was gonna ask that because I know just running an open source project in it of self, like, especially when this is a not someone's full-time job, it's really hard to get the contributors and the maintainers and the volunteers to be consistent. Um, so Ben, we haven't heard from you hearing the, what Alyssa and Ben have already said.

Like, where do you think maybe you went wrong? Um, and I don't wanna say wrong, 'cause again, Alyssa said that, you know, Jenkins got denied twice. But where do you think, like what were you not prepared with in terms of all the things that they just talked about?

Uh, pretty much all of it. But, uh, yeah, uh, just to get some background on what happened with us. Uh, basically, uh, a few of us were off in f in the beginning of February and somebody said, one of our community members we were talking to said, Hey, we just apply to go, go somewhere, code the application is just opened, stopped and talk to somebody.

Said, oh, it's a quick, quick, uh, uh, form. We gotta fill out and open SSF you're sure to get it. Okay, I'm on the road in the hotel that night.

Quickly pull it up. Some of these questions seem like they need some preparation, then, uh, yeah, we weren't sure what was gonna happen there. 'cause to try to scramble some stuff together between the few of us, uh, knowing that we had a lot of folks who were willing to contribute and, uh, would have great ideas and were willing to be mentors.

And so try and answer as best we can. Uh, obviously when the decisions came around and, uh, we didn't get selected, started looking at some of the stuff other folks had done and wow, massive websites set up with tons of project ideas, all fully vetted out, all kinds of stuff. I said, oh geez, wish I would've known about this a while back.

Probably should have started this in October or so. Um, so I'm sitting back listening to all this and just taking it in thinking, oh, this, this needs a lot more effort. I need to get this, uh, uh, organized a heck of a lot better going forward for, uh, for next year, uh, to make sure that we do start the preparation, do start the recruit mentors, do start to get, uh, lists of ideas and have, you know, kind of project infrastructure you mentioned have a separate sub site even for this within, uh, the Jenkins group.

Yeah, No, you know, I, I think it's important to note Alyssa, how long ago Jenkins has been around since 20 10, 20 12, something like that. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Not every open source project out here is Jenkins, right? Jenkins, even today, I think from the latest CDF survey, Jenkins is about 43% of organizations doing CI/CD use Jenkins still today, at one point, that number was probably closer to 80 or 90%.

Um, so granted not every, or, and, and it's also, and I know it from my time working with Alyssa and KK and the CloudBees folks and the Jenkins community doing Jenkins days around the world. Not every open source project is as organized, quite frankly, or as functional as the Jenkins community is it, it's, it's, to me, it's a, a shining light in the, on the hill or something to quote somewhat. But, um, I don't wanna give, you know, and, and that's why eight out of 10 years they got selected.

That's almost Crest toothpaste numbers, right? Nine outta 10 dentists. Um, fantastic and congratulations to elic to you and the whole Jenkins team, but we shouldn't, not every org.

Not every org not every project can be Jenkinson, right? Ben, your, your org's a great example. I, as you know, just comparing here to you, to Alyssa.

It, it's a very different story. Yeah. And like, you know, the way that we did our, um, submissions, initial submissions or everything was through GitHub issues.

And, you know, uh, gs o requires you to have like a public page with all of your, uh, uh, projects. All of that was just, you know, GitHub. So it was very scrappy.

Um, the content was really good, which is good. We had really, uh, engaged contributors, which really helped. But in terms of like the level of effort on the project, it was pretty minimal.

Get it. So let me ask a provocative question, Alyssa, is it worth it? Oh, absolutely.

We, why we enjoy it a lot because, you know, we we're working with brand new, like, you know, almost out of college, uh, students who are very excited who once they understand the impact of their contributions, they either spread the word to their friends and say, Hey, try this out, or try out this. It's having Google Summer of code Google on their resume is a big deal as well. So the excitement that they, you know, that they, they show is, you know, kind of like, oh, it's, it's, it keeps, it keeps us going.

And they do learn a lot. You see the growth of a student from the, when they first started to when they finished the program. And to me, that is just the most rewarding part.

Um, it, and what we tell them is that this is no walk in the park. It's not easy, okay? And we do show them this, this hill or this mountain that they have to climb, but prior to that, we also tell them, you need to build your Jenkins muscles, right?

Um, so don't come in thinking that, you know, oh, you know, I, I don't know anything. I'll just wait and write it all out and see what happens. Nope.

We expect you to have done your due diligence. We expect you to put in your time and efforts. We expect you to be proactive.

Um, that's how you know one can be successful. So watching that whole process within a 12 weeks period, to me, is really, um, it's really rewarding. And we, and we are fortunate enough that we do get a lot of contributors coming back, meaning they either continue to contribute to the project and or they mentor other, um, other students.

Yeah. Bennett, hearing eiser and, and, and Ben's story, I mean, you guys would like to be in, in GS o, but are you really ready to make that commitment? I would think we could, we just didn't.

Uh, as, as far as the application process we're prepared for, for the stuff to be done up front, uh, we have, you know, a large community of folks who are willing to be onto your staff that's willing to support. Uh, I think we could get to, to that, uh, understanding what those requirements are to, uh, actually get through the process though, uh, would be very helpful, uh, upfront and to, to, to really understand that. So for next year, you're gonna make that commitment as best not to put you on the spot, putting you on the spot A as best we can.

I can, I can commit to my own labor, but, uh, uh, and I know that we have, uh, willing, EE enabled contributors, including, you know, a number of, uh, people in our community I'm sure have been mentors before in this, uh, we, we did have some, uh, mentees last summer that, uh, uh, we worked with on under a different program. So, uh, we do have some experience within the organization and a lot more folks as we've, uh, scaled up, uh, uh, staff and, uh, are getting new members and everything else with the open SSF hopefully we would actually have the capabilities to do so. Uh, just to make sure we understand how to get through the, the, the process here, uh, is best to be part of the, uh, uh, the group who does this very well.

Can I also add, go Ahead. Sure. Um, don't give up hope, because I know that in talking to Google, the, um, the organizers, they, um, every year they try to have about 20% new mentoring orgs accepted.

So don't give up help. Keep trying. So I kind of wanna touch on something Alyssa mentioned, which I think is really like core to this process.

Um, is the applicant itself, it's the person that wants to be a part of this, the student or the, um, the person that wants to be mentored. Alyssa, you said that you want them to level up on their Jenkins skills before. So what if I was someone in this pool of 44,000 applicants that wants to be a part of this?

Should this be my first time contributing to an open source project? Should I find a smaller project to kind of get my feet wet in? You know, should I try to be like a little fish in a big pond, or should I try to be a big fish in a little pond?

Like looking at it from the other side, what is the ideal, like what should an applicant think about when they're thinking of applying to be part of Google Summer of code? Um, that's a great question, Lori. So we, we have a webinar for that, that dawn our YouTube page.

Um, I, when we as the, as the mentoring org or as mentors, when we look at applications, we look at the holistic picture, right? So we want to see, and we do spell this out to contributors, we want you to, you know, make an effort to try to, um, acclimate yourself within the community. We want to see you contributing in some ways, right?

So like, if you came in and you had no idea, so that means that our mentors will have to put in a lot of time and effort. Um, so we want somebody who has done their due diligence, who has done their homework, who has, who is again, proactive, right? So we also look, when, when they make their application, when they submit their plan, we read each and every proposal, right?

We wanna understand how, what is your thought, um, method, uh, you know, how do you plan to work out this 12, this next 12 weeks? What does that plan look like? So it's gotta be like step by step plan, how, how are you gonna use your time?

And in the event that our mentors are busy because they do have full-time jobs, how do you spend, how do you plan to spend your time? So we, we, we look at that whole thing, um, this year was quite challenging, was because we saw I think, a lot of usage from perhaps chat GPT, um, and we can identify that our, our, our, our mentors can sense that. So, you know, just be authentic.

Be yourself, you know, what's your idea? Show us your ideas, and again, you should have already, you know, um, get acclimated to the open source within the project and contributing in some ways, right? Small doesn't have to be big.

Um, but we want to see all that. Yeah. Um, Ben, I'd like to come to you.

I mean, Jenkins has a great name. They, they here eight times. You see the kind of effort they made, clearly you guys did it right?

Why do you think you got selected? So, I think because Chips Alliance is unique, um, not, not entirely unique, but, um, it's, it's open source hardware. And so I think there was a good story there.

Um, the, the community is, is much smaller than with open source software. Um, the barrier to entry is pretty high. Um, you know, reading the proposals, I, I have a, I used to work at Mozilla for 10 years and reading the proposals, I have no idea what a lot of these things are way over my head.

Um, and so I think it's, it's one of those things where it's, um, super niche, super targeted, kind of unique, probably the area that Google feels like is worth investing in, right? Um, and so I think that helped us a lot. Um, and one thing I did wanna mention about like the, the, um, like how familiar the mentees are with the project.

I think about half of our projects, the, the mentees and the mentors had worked together on the proposal beforehand and had known each other and had started working together. So they were kind of a known entity coming in, which I think helped a lot. Sorry, Alan did that.

Um, Yeah, no, I, like, I'm wondering to myself, there's a good story or a cool area Trump organization and preparation. Um, probably not. It, it helps like, I think like if you, if you, if you've got a really good story, but like, it, it's not presented in a way that Google has confidence that you're gonna be able to pull it off, right?

Probably not, not gonna get funding. Um, but I think the, um, you know, that combination of, you know, trying to have something that's that's, um, focused, um, maybe a little unique, um, and well put together, I think definitely helps your chances a lot. Yeah.

Fair. Uh, guys, we only have a few minutes left. 40, 45 minutes goes quickly for those folks watching this who are not necessarily looking to apply as mentees, but as mentor organizations.

And then for mentees too, can you give us three tips, either the mentor or mentees are a combination of what you can do to be successful in applying to gsoc. So Alyssa, you are the dean here of this, so I'm gonna ask you to go first if you don't mind. Um, so for mentoring orgs, I, I'll just recap.

What I felt was really important for us was all the documentations, um, making it visible on the website. Um, communications, they want to see proactive and productive communications. They want to be able to see your planning way in advance.

And, um, number three would be respect their schedule. They will not make changes for you. Um, they will not budge.

So keep those dates in mind. I have Google Summer of code date on my calendar, um, my work calendar, my personal calendar. And so, um, you know, respect those states and I tell, um, mentees the same thing.

They will not be because you have midterms or final exam, they will not budge for you. So keep your, keep your eyes on those states. Excellent.

Done it. I realized you're maybe short on advice having just kind of begun your journey here, but what can you tell 'em? I very much li you know, agree, I guess with what Alyssa said from what I saw.

Yeah. There, there is no budging in those dates. You definitely need to be prepared before going in.

Uh, the, the small number of questions they ask you on the application form refers to a, a large, large answers that, uh, require a whole lot of stuff behind it as we, uh, found out the hard way. Uh, and, uh, again, I wish I'd, I'd seen a, a, a a talk like this one to better understand that going forward. And we'll definitely looking into, uh, all the stuff on the, the Jenkins site about how they did stuff in some of your videos as you mentioned, I feel like, yeah, I hope so.

Um, Ben, how about you? Uh, I would, I would say, especially for new folks or folks who are doing this for the first time, don't go it alone. Um, try and find a mentor, right?

I mean, it's kind of funny to, to find a mentor, but like, yeah. Find mentor For a mentor. Yeah.

Someone that has done this before. Um, you know, there are mailing lists that, uh, Google supports that you can get involved in. There's, there's other resources there, but like, see if you can pair up with someone, just, just someone who you can ask questions to, right?

I think that's super useful. Um, I would say the second thing is, um, be empathetic to the folks at Google who are running this program, right? Um, they are short staffed and are running a ton of a ton of these, right?

So if they reach out to you, like, be nice, I'm sure they're under a lot of pressure. Um, and, uh, and I think the third one, yeah, the dates goes without saying, right? Um, oh, okay, I've got a different one.

Then. Uh, instead of dates, read their emails. Like Google is very proactive about telling you what you need to do once you're in the program.

And it's, it's, a lot of it is laid out there. Pay attention to those emails, read them carefully and definitely action. The items that are, that are called out in there, they're, they're in there for a reason.

Many of them are helpful then to, to help you be successful. Excellent. Laurie, as usual, I'm gonna give you last words.

Ah, thanks Alan. Um, again, thank you again to you and to text strong for allowing us to have, uh, the CD pipeline. I think we've really been able to, in the last year and a half, uh, give the general tech community a broader scope of what it is to be a part of the CDF, um, and to have Jenkins here today.

It's our flagship project to have all of this experience sort of like packaged up for you when you think about Google Summer of code, and maybe even taking that and just thinking about how to build your own mentor relationship or mentor program within your own project. You know, maybe Google summer of code is out of your realm, but this is a really nice step-by-step guide on how to sort of create your own, um, mentorship project, uh, or program within your project is awesome. Uh, I do wanna say, if you're going to open source Summit Europe, I hope to see you there.

Uh, we do have a CD mini summit that will be on the Friday, September 19th. So it's sort of the day after the summit is officially over. Um, but we've got a lot of talks and they will be announced on July 8th, I believe.

Don't quote me on that, but, uh, the schedule will be out soon. So again, Alan, uh, this was awesome. To the panelists, thank you for everything and I can't wait to do the next one.

This is awesome, Alrightyy. And that, that summit's in Vienna, right? Yes, which happens to be my middle name.

So you should all go just because of that. Very cool. Lori Vienna.

Okay. Um, she had last word. This is Alan Shimel.

We're out. We'll see at the next CD pipeline. Bye-Bye everyone.